[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":63814},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/deep-dive-184-rolldown-mit-alexander-lichter":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":148,"speakerCount":149,"relatedPodcasts":150,"transcript":151},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":37,"members":66,"picks_of_the_day":99,"tags":144,"tagsPrepared":145,"speakersPrepared":146},"05a70de0-5529-43ec-9c2d-d3794df37b48","2025-06-24T04:00:00.000Z","deep_dive","184","Rolldown mit Alexander Lichter","deep-dive-184-rolldown-mit-alexander-lichter","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">In dieser Folge sprechen wir mit Alexander Lichter über neue Tools, die in der Community gerade für Aufsehen sorgen: Rolldown ist ein neuer Bundler auf Rust-Basis, der Rollup und esbuild langfristig ablösen könnte. Alex arbeitet seit Jahren mit JavaScript-Tooling und ist früh zum Rolldown-Team gestoßen. Er erzählt uns, warum er sich dem Projekt angeschlossen hat, wie es zur rasanten Entwicklung kam – und was es mit der engen Verbindung zu Vite auf sich hat.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Außerdem geht es um void(0), ein ambitioniertes Developer-Tooling-Projekt, bei dem Alexander für Developer Relations verantwortlich ist. Wir sprechen über große Visionen, Funding-Strategien für Open Source und die Herausforderungen, Community und Professionalität in Einklang zu bringen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Nicht zuletzt schauen wir auf oxc, ein auf Geschwindigkeit optimierter Compiler, der tief in die Architektur von Rolldown hinein wirkt. Eine Folge für alle, die sich für moderne Toolchains, Open-Source-Engagement und die Zukunft des Frontend-Ökosystems interessieren.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/17364792-deep-dive-184-rolldown-mit-alexander-lichter.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"f1629412-7f6f-43d4-94bb-7bce63ee8777","184 Ig Fb Alexander Lichter","f1629412-7f6f-43d4-94bb-7bce63ee8777.png","184_ig_fb_Alexander_Lichter.png",{},"image/png","2388589","2025-06-16T14:53:29.725Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-06-16T14:53:29.704Z",1500,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":35,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"04efbbcc-6603-4b2d-8b73-864737dce0ed","Alexander Lichter Profil Deep Dive 2025","04efbbcc-6603-4b2d-8b73-864737dce0ed.png","Alexander Lichter Profil Deep Dive 2025.png",{},"1127165","2025-06-18T09:47:07.120Z","7d52cb41-56d8-499c-b7a2-46c2e0d8f405","2025-06-18T09:47:07.117Z",1024,[38],{"speaker":39},{"id":40,"slug":41,"academic_title":12,"occupation":42,"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"description":45,"event_image":46,"profile_image":56},"174551c9-11a2-4949-b197-21e3ad067bad","alexander-lichter","Developer, Founder, Speaker","Alexander","Lichter","\u003Cp>Nach jahrelanger Begeisterung für Computer seit jungen Jahren ist Alexander mittlerweile leidenschaftlicher Full Stack Developer, Redner und Gründer einer Firma. Nicht einmal einen Monat nach seinem Abitur hat er zusammen mit Freunden \u003Ca href=\"https://www.developmint.de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Developmint\u003C/a> ins Leben gerufen und baut gemeinsam mit Max Langer Apps und Webseiten für mittelständische Unternehmen und Einzelpersonen.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Alexanders Informatikstudium lief nebenbei an der TU Dresden. Er konnte bisher nicht nur Erfahrungen in Bereichen wie UX, Prozessanalyse, Skalierung und SEO sammeln, sondern wirkt auch als Redner auf Meetups und Konferenzen.\u003C/p>",{"id":47,"title":48,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":49,"filename_download":50,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"16c336af-d64a-4790-b714-b1c080295276","Alexander Lichter","16c336af-d64a-4790-b714-b1c080295276.jpg","alexander_lichter_event_d6876e7775.jpg","image/jpeg","120347","2022-01-16T14:25:39.241Z","2021-12-30T14:17:51.731Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":48,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":58,"filename_download":59,"metadata":60,"type":51,"filesize":61,"modified_by":62,"modified_on":63,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":64,"folder":12,"width":65,"height":65,"charset":12,"duration":12},"731bdf24-2a7e-4b58-9d71-225113d22533","731bdf24-2a7e-4b58-9d71-225113d22533.jpg","me-original.jpg",{},"888210","b9171751-42c9-475e-92a7-ed049c66c4c5","2025-06-11T15:33:00.618Z","2025-06-11T15:33:00.607Z",1642,[67,82],{"member":68},{"id":69,"first_name":70,"last_name":71,"occupation":72,"description":73,"normal_image":74},"e2b1f75a-98d7-4250-b722-607d9c2c072d","Sebi","Schilbe","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Sebi programmiert bereits seit seiner Kindheit und war schon immer begeistert von bunten Bildern und Animationen. Das könnte auch ein Grund gewesen sein, warum er bei Lotum als Frontend Developer begonnen hat. Nach mehreren Jahren iOS- und Backend-Entwicklung kann er heute nicht nur seinen geliebten Gin Tonic trinken, sondern ist auch im Full Stack angekommen.\u003Cbr>Im Podcast versucht er, Dinge möglichst einfach zu erklären und berichtet stets mit Erfahrungsschatz und Witz. Auch wegen seines Photoshopzertifikats kann er sich dabei auf die Perspektive des Designs einlassen. ;)\u003C/p>",{"id":75,"title":76,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":77,"filename_download":78,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":79,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":81,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"3cd1db33-faa5-4906-94d9-df5d79f26b69","Sebastian Schilbe","3cd1db33-faa5-4906-94d9-df5d79f26b69.jpg","sebastian_schilbe_normal_869d3c3c1a.jpg","41168","2022-01-16T14:26:00.610Z","2021-12-30T14:16:29.405Z",{"member":83},{"id":84,"first_name":85,"last_name":86,"occupation":87,"description":88,"normal_image":89},"af60e6ac-beb7-4eff-8fe8-bb017558368e","Garrelt","Mock","// Software Developer // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Garrelt bereichert das Podcast-Team mit seinem umfangreichen Wissen über eine Vielzahl von Tech-Themen. Seine Leidenschaft für Mobile Games hat er eindrucksvoll bewiesen, als er noch im Studium sein eigenes Spiel entwickelte.\u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht mit seiner kleinen Familie im selbst umgebauten Van die Welt erkundet, genießt er es, historische Burgen zu besichtigen. Garrelt findet den Ausgleich zwischen digitaler und analoger Welt spannend und integriert so viel wie möglich davon in seinen Alltag. Seine vielseitigen Interessen und seine Begeisterung für Technologie machen ihn zu einer wertvollen Ergänzung des Teams.\u003C/p>",{"id":90,"title":91,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":92,"filename_download":93,"metadata":94,"type":51,"filesize":95,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":96,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":97,"uploaded_on":98,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0","Garrelt CD","a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0.jpg","Garrelt_CD.jpg",{},"672932","2024-07-29T14:31:27.028Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-29T14:31:26.899Z",[100,116,131],{"id":101,"name":102,"website_url":103,"description":104,"image":105},"e4a28752-28bf-4c04-9084-be38cbafeaac","Build your own X","https://github.com/codecrafters-io/build-your-own-x","\u003Cp>Eine Liste von Anleitungen zum Nachbauen etablierter Software (von Redis bis Netzwerk-Programmierung).\u003C/p>",{"id":106,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":107,"filename_download":108,"metadata":109,"type":110,"filesize":111,"modified_by":62,"modified_on":112,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":62,"uploaded_on":113,"folder":12,"width":114,"height":115,"charset":12,"duration":12},"099090d9-60c9-4efe-a16a-a286c7e61ca3","099090d9-60c9-4efe-a16a-a286c7e61ca3.gif","68747470733a2f2f636f646563726166746572732e696f2f696d616765732f62796f782d62616e6e65722e676966.gif",{},"image/gif","3344255","2025-06-11T15:36:12.309Z","2025-06-11T15:36:12.293Z",1560,320,{"id":117,"name":118,"website_url":119,"description":120,"image":121},"e98ae2ef-9139-4941-bd96-4ccd85fcd002","TC39 Proposal - Random Functions","https://github.com/tc39/proposal-random-functions?tab=readme-ov-file","\u003Cp>Ein TC39 Proposal für verbesserte random functions in JavaScript.\u003C/p>",{"id":122,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":123,"filename_download":124,"metadata":125,"type":51,"filesize":126,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":127,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":62,"uploaded_on":128,"folder":12,"width":129,"height":130,"charset":12,"duration":12},"bc34dc6a-3e9b-4e2b-8714-e9e543947b83","bc34dc6a-3e9b-4e2b-8714-e9e543947b83.jpg","github-com-tc39-proposal-random-functionstabreadme-ov-file.jpg",{},"92322","2025-06-11T15:24:47.029Z","2025-06-11T15:24:47.026Z",1366,768,{"id":132,"name":133,"website_url":134,"description":135,"image":136},"5c0155f8-6475-48cb-bc73-e6ef404bd787","knip.dev","https://knip.dev/","\u003Cp>Ein Tool, das unnötige Dependencies, Exports und Dateien in euren Webprojekten entfernt.\u003C/p>",{"id":137,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":138,"filename_download":139,"metadata":140,"type":51,"filesize":141,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":142,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":62,"uploaded_on":143,"folder":12,"width":129,"height":130,"charset":12,"duration":12},"868aee25-49a0-43b6-af13-fd2ad82b72e8","868aee25-49a0-43b6-af13-fd2ad82b72e8.jpg","knip-dev.jpg",{},"46827","2025-06-11T15:24:47.245Z","2025-06-11T15:24:47.242Z",[],[],[147],{"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"profile_image":56,"slug":41,"description":45,"event_image":46,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":152,"service":153,"supported_features":154,"speakers":157,"raw_response":164},"73cf51a8-cc77-4fda-b72b-d01d89731dcc","deepgram",[155,156],"timestamps","diarization",[158,160,162],{"identifier":159,"name":85},"0",{"identifier":161,"name":70},"1",{"identifier":163,"name":43},"2",{"metadata":165,"results":179},{"transaction_key":166,"request_id":167,"sha256":168,"created":169,"duration":170,"channels":171,"models":172,"model_info":174},"deprecated","6781ef7b-98e9-4fd1-a618-78d599f39cde","3c3ec0b8f5712cede959322924bf2e8393cb2ac678a68fa8cad81eb43c95a78b","2025-06-19T16:05:14.909Z",4068.335,1,[173],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":175},{"name":176,"version":177,"arch":178},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":180,"utterances":47774},[181],{"alternatives":182},[183],{"transcript":184,"confidence":185,"words":186,"paragraphs":45243},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive bei der Programmierbar. Ich bin hier im hybriden Studio und hab 2 Leute mit mir hier sitzen, auf die ich mich beide sehr freue. Und zwar nämlich einmal sitzt endlich mal wieder der Seebe neben mir. Hi, Garelt. Hallo. Ich freu mich auch. Ja, ist 'n cooles Thema auch heute. Und für dieses Thema haben wir uns den Alexander Lichter eingeladen. Hallo Alex. Hallo Sevi, hallo Garel. Schön, dass ich wieder dabei sein kann zum dritten Mal jetzt, ne, die dritte Episode. Ja, die dritte Episode, die letzten 2 waren über Naxt. Heute geht's nicht Naxt, sondern was anderes. Nicht hauptsächlich zumindest, ne? Son bisschen reingesnekt wird das vielleicht gehört. Ja. Aber genau, richtig. Das stimmt. Das ist ja auch alles 'n bisschen miteinander verbunden. So ist es. Genau. Du warst schon zweimal da, viele kennen dich bestimmt, aber für die Leute, die dich nicht kennen, stell ich's dir noch einmal ganz kurz vor. Alex ist eine bekannte Stimme und Gesicht in der Web und vor allen Dingen der Viewwelt. Und das liegt unter anderem daran, dass er als Kom Container schon viel bei beigetragen hat, aber auch generell viel zu Open Source Software contributed, unter anderem eben auch View. Aber Du bist auch Host von, ein Podcast, der sich alle möglichen View Themen dreht. Und auch auf vielen Konferenzen weltweit sprichst Du über, über Webthemen, über View. Da sieht man dich auch häufiger. Und seit Kurzem bist Du auch als Developer Relations bei Void Zero aktiv. Da bin ich auch sehr gespannt, was Du heute erzählst. Und neben diesen ganzen Dingen, die ich jetzt schon genannt hab, bist Du auch noch irgendwie Consultant und machst Workshops. Wie viel Zeit hast Du dafür überhaupt noch? Ja, genau. Es ist es klingt alles recht viel, ist auch alles absolut richtig. Natürlich, seitdem ich bei Boyd Zero bin, also jetzt ungefähr so zweieinhalb, wahrscheinlich mit der Episode rauskommt, so 3 Monate, weniger Zeit für Consultants hier auf jeden Fall, weniger Zeit für Beratung. Dadurch, dass, wie Du schon gesagt hast, so okay, viel Zeit geht natürlich für meinen Teilzeit Devral Job bei Boyd Zero sind 3 Tage die Woche drauf Und die anderen 2 Tage ist dann ja, Open Source will man trotzdem noch contributen. Man ist mal auf Konferenzen, wobei es zum Teil natürlich auch Arbeitszeit ist. Youtube Channel hab ich auch noch, wo ich jede Woche 'n Video über View Next und auch Webthemen mitreeleße. Genau, der Podcast, ja, da bleibt da nicht mehr so viel Zeit, aber es geht noch alles. Es es passt noch auch Gott sei Dank, weil ich meine Videos nicht selber editieren muss, genauso mit dem Podcast. Das ist ganz hilfreich, wenn man jemanden hat, der es einem abnimmt und man dann Zeit hat, weiter Content zu caten oder zu contributen oder, oder, oder. Macht das dein Co Host, der Michel Thiessen oder Nee, tatsächlich. Wir haben 'n Detektanton Editor für seine Autorin, genau, Nikki macht das für uns und macht's aber auch gleich alles so an der Hand, sowohl meinen Youtube Channel als auch die Podcasts, als auch 'n bisschen was für Void Zero. Mhm. Da haben wir jemanden, der mit dem technischen Verständnis ganz gut dabei ist. Und ist sonst son bisschen als als Editor, jeder kann ja theoretisch Podcasts so über Allgemeines editieren, aber manchmal ist dann ganz gut okay, man versteht zumindest den Zusammenhang im Gespräch oder bei 'nem Tutorial so, ja okay, wo muss ich jetzt reinzoomen, wo ist der Fokus? Da da haben wir auf jeden Fall jemanden gut mit am Start. Ja, ist sehr wertvoll. Bei uns ist das der Carlo auch Shoutout an Carlo. Grüße ihn raus, genau. Die Leute sind machen viel und hören viel und sind aber sehr im Hintergrund. Das ist so die ja, ich sag mal, der undankbarste Job so in 'ner Art und Weise. Wenn alles klappt, ist so, ja, alles cool. Und wenn was nicht denkt, denkst Du so, ah ja, hätte man ja besser machen können. Das ist so bisschen wie der der MC auf Konferenzen, ist halt ähnlich so. Ja, fühl ich mal auf jeden Fall. Große Shoutdown an alle Leute, die hinter den den Podcasts und Channels und Co sitzen, das Ganze editieren und produzieren. Absolut. Ja, wir haben jetzt schon viele irgendwie Buzzwords gehört mit und Vide Zero, aber es geht heute was anderes. Und zwar möchten wir über sprechen. Und vielleicht erst mal, Alex, kannst Du uns mal sagen, was ist über und wie bist Du da beteiligst? Genau. Wir fangen am besten mal ganz, also ich such mal bisschen raus, so mäßig, dann können wir in die die Details reingehen. Und zwar, wenn man jetzt in 1 modernen Webeentwicklungswelt anfängt, sagt, okay, ich lern 'n bisschen JavaScript, HTML, CSS. Klar, man startet vielleicht, okay, ich hab 'n HTML Dokument, ich kann da bisschen JavaScript reinschreiben. Aber sobald man irgend 'n Framework benutzt, tatsächlich bis auf View, weil das kann man auch genauso noch benutzen, sagen, ich lad das über son Skript Tag rein, einfach als CDN und kann dann reinstarten, wie man's früher mit JQUERY gemacht hat und natürlich weniger Kilobyte und mehr orientiert. Aber ansonsten natürlich, wenn man irgendwas baut, auch 'n View geht das mit 10 Gefile Komponenten, dann irgendwie reactangulas wählt. Man hat eigentlich immer eine Art Bild Step, weil natürlich man will dann das JSX oder die Komponenten oder das Typescript ja dann irgendwie in Javacript kommentieren. Und da wird das natürlich, man durchläuft einige Schritte. Man will vielleicht so Sachen machen, wie welche Browser mich supporten? Möchte ich Sachen umtransformieren? Und da ist eigentlich alles der Banner für zuständig. Oder in anderen Sprachen ist so, ja, der Compiler son Rust oder ze oder so, sag ich, okay, ich transformier das von der eigentlichen Sprache in Maschinencode und hier ist halt von der eigentlichen Sprache wie type Skript, Viewsing a File Components, Svelt und so weiter und so weiter insgesamt zu Javascript, weil der Browser kann ja kein type Skript. Genau. Und ich glaub, da kann man ganz gut einsteigen, so der Bundler hat irgendwie ganz viele Aufgaben und in der Regel im besten Fall nehmen es die Leute gar nicht so wahr. Die haben dann ihr Tool, in der Regel Veed oder früher noch Webpack einige Nutzer, vielleicht auch RSPacks sind so die die beliebten Tools, vielleicht auch Parcel hier und da, die die Build Tools, die dann im im Hintergrund 'n Band da laufen haben, der das Ganze dann macht, sowohl zur Dev- als auch zur Produktionszeit. Und Du hast ja grad schon gesagt, okay, es gibt schon viele Buntler. Was macht jetzt oder was unterscheidet Rollan? Also warum habt ihr den entwickelt? Genau, auch da, ich versuch mal 'n bisschen rauszuzoomen, weil wenn man jetzt sich so die moderne Webenwicklungslandschaft anguckt, dann hat man eigentlich für jedes moderne Framework außer für NextJRS, das ist son bisschen der Outlier, ein Bild Tool, nämlich Veed. Das hat sich in den letzten Jahren, so letzten Jahren, das ist schon 'n paar mehr Jahre her, eigentlich sehr populär gesteigert. Eigentlich nutzt jeder wie, das dauert Leute of Next Jazz, weil bei Russell, die setzen auf Webpack und Turbopack. Wenn das dann auch endlich ist, in Dev läuft es mittlerweile, aber ich glaub, 3, 4 Tests fehlen noch. Es gibt sone Seite dot com, die das ganz gut anzeigt. Das ist der ist das der Successor von Genau. Ist auch von Tobias, also von dem eigentlich mit der von von Wepper gebaut. Da war die Idee son bisschen das, was, ich sag mal, rodern, aber auch so was wie 'n RS Pack ist, ist sagen, okay, wir bauen das in 'ner anderen Sprache, weil schneller und es soll halt ganz viel Sachen können und im Idealfall auch eine öffentliche API haben. Das also die öffentliche API gibt's noch nicht und wie gesagt, es fehlen halt auch noch für NextJS selber. Das ist aber noch mal eine andere Geschichte. Letztendlich kommen wir zum Punkt zurück. Eigentlich nutzt fast jeder Veat, das ist son bisschen der ja die Infrastruktur der modernen Webentwicklung. Und Veat an sich nutzt im Hintergrund 2 unterschiedliche Bundler. Das liegt daran, dass ja, wenn man das noch kennt irgendwie früher von Webhack, es hat alles 'n bisschen gedauert, der Dev Server wird gestartet, dann wartet man vielleicht im besten Fall 30 Sekunden, ansonsten 'n paar Minuten, bis alles läuft. Liegt daran, dass Webhack selber erst mal sagt, okay, für, ich muss keine Optimierung machen, keine, aber ich muss trotzdem alles wandeln, zu sagen, okay, so was wie zu JavaScript oder coffee Skript machst Du damals noch oder parkt zu HTML und so weiter. Und Veed, Evan, der auch Ersteller von View hat Veed entwickelt, weil er gedacht hat, okay, so die Developer Experience vom View Seal Eye und vom von allem View Entwickler ist ja okay, aber könnte besser gehen. Und hat dann gemerkt, okay, die der Ansatz zu sagen, ich mach das andersrum. Ich habe sonen Entry File und alles Weitere regel ich mit dynamischen Imports. Also ich sag effektiv, ich lad nicht alles vorab, sondern ich mach das alles komplett dynamisch. Geht schnell, die Browser hat mittlerweile Kompatibilität dafür. Und das ist auch immer sone Frage, ne, warum hat man's früher nicht gemacht? Weil Kompatibilität den Browser zum Beispiel gefehlt hat. Und es gab auch andere Tools, WMR, Snowpack, die so in die Richtung ging. Ja, und Vita hat sich da son bisschen durchgesetzt. Und damit ist der Dev Server halt superschnell, weil's eben kein gebandelter Dev Server ist, sondern es ist mehr oder weniger anbandelt. Und dafür wird Airsbild genutzt, basiert auf Go, zum Beispiel gewisse Dependencies zu prewandeln oder type zu stripmen, also das Nötigste zu machen, die Dependencies bereitzustellen. Aber dann ist halt wirklich ein Request pro Dependency im Dev Server. Und das geht halt recht schnell, weil gut, man muss halt keine großen CPU Zyklen drauf verwenden. Man lädt das einfach nur runter, da es alles lokal ist, geht es ganz gut. Mhm. Und dann in Produktion, wenn man das Ganze wirklich bauen möchte, wird roll up genutzt. Bisschen Verwirrung, Rollup, Rolldown, ne. Sieht auch, wo der Name son bisschen herkommt. Hat auch den einfachen Grund, also IS Bild ist, ich sag mal, zum Teil, aber zum Teil auch einfach 'n sehr kleinen Scope. Rollup kann 'n bisschen besser sagen, okay, ich möcht zum Beispiel meine Chunks etwas anders anlegen, ist aber auch sehr limitiert, hat aber auch 'n großes Plug in Ecosystem. So AS Bild hat nur sehr begrenzt Plugins, aber Rollup für alles mögliche Plugins. Die API ist sehr schön, ist 'n sehr freundliches Ökosystem, auch im Vergleich zu anderen Bundler wie Webhack. Deswegen wurde das Ganze da für genutzt, Sachen einfach zu vereinfachen. Und ist auch sehr gut, was so Optimierung angeht, Dead Code Elimination und so weiter. Das View in System ist auch davon inspiriert, oder? Wie Genau, auch das. Auch richtig. Yes, richtig, richtig. Und Du musst ja im Endeffekt, wenn Du 'n wie Plug in schreibst, im Hintergrund ja auch Rollup und DS Bild son bisschen Ja. Ich sag mal, beides beides nutzen, je nachdem, ob Du was für Dev brauchst oder nicht. Aber genau ist auf jeden Fall davon inspiriert und ist die API. Und da gibt's noch Plug in, das ist eigentlich auch eine ganz schöne Sache, wo die Idee ist son bisschen das J-Query für die Bundler. Also ich schreibe ein Plug in und das läuft dann in von irgendwie Webhack bis bis Rolldown. Das ist eigentlich auch 'n ganz netter Approach. Gibt's natürlich an den Sachen, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Hook, die gibt's nur 'n zum Beispiel. Aber das ist eine Möglichkeit, Plug ins zu schreiben, die halt überlaufen. Das nur als als Einschub. Kann man's auf jeden Fall, wenn man als Plug in Autor sich das Ganze anschauen möchte. Ist recht, recht nützlich. Mhm. Genau und Veed nutzt eben diese 2 Bander. Ja, und dann gibt's natürlich so ein Problem oder mehrere Probleme, weil ist erst mal sehr cool, Viet ist irgendwann im Enterprise angekommen. Das dauert ja immer son kleines bisschen. Und dann hat man aber gemerkt, dass zum einen, ja gut, die Bild dauern natürlich recht lang dann irgendwann, grade wenn irgendwie son Shopify dann mal Sachen baut. Mhm. Und auf der anderen Seite der Dev Server, der anbandelt Mode sozusagen. Der hat 'n bisschen Probleme, wenn Du halt nicht nur irgendwie 10 oder 100, sondern vielleicht so 1000 bis 10000 Probanden und Dependencies hast, weil dann hast Du wirklich ein Profile und das ist halt bei Enterprise schon ja, dann doch einiges. Plus wenn Du noch sagst, Du hast irgendwie 'n Proxy, so Corporate World, ne, selbst wenn es irgendwie lokal läuft, dann geht jeder da durch und dann ist der Dev Server Start-up einfach, ja, es dauert. Produktionsbild kein Problem, aber Du willst ja auch Features shampoo was bauen. Wir sind genau, wir sind bei, ich glaub, 360 falls ungefähr. Wir haben schon so 10 Sekunden Okay, ja. Erste Start up Plan. Haben Erster natürlich superschnell, Ja. Aber so einmal. Genau, richtig. Und das ist halt 'n Problem. Und dann natürlich das andere, die Inkonsisten zwischen und wenn Du natürlich 2 unterschiedliche Tool benutzt, ist das schwierig. Mhm. Und genau. Ein eine Möglichkeit, das zu vermeiden, ist natürlich zu sagen, man nutzt einen Bandler. Und jetzt könnte man sagen, okay, warum kontribitiert man nicht einfach zu Roll-up oder zu S-Belt und macht das Ganze? Weil ist ja alles Open Source und das ist auf jeden Fall eine Möglichkeit. Ist auch 'n guter Punkt, dass Roll-up eben genau das nicht ist. Ist nicht einfach wir neben, sorry, Rolldown das nicht ist. Wir nehmen nämlich einfach Roll-up und Rustefinders, ja. Rolldown in Rust beschrieben und nimmt aber son bisschen das Beste der vorherigen Tools mit. Also sowohl von eher das Bild, was so Verhalten und Co angeht, auch natürlich die Schnelligkeit, von Roll-up, also da die API, das Plug in Ökosystem und sogar Webhack, was so Chunk Optimierung angeht. Weil Webhack kann das richtig, richtig gut. Da gibt's dieses Feature, zu sagen, okay, ich möchte meine Chunks in bestimmten Gruppen haben. Ich kann da Limits festsetzen. Das ist eigentlich recht, recht schön. Mhm. Genau, und deswegen war dann die Idee zu sagen, gut, okay, Rowdown, wir schreiben das Ganze in Rust, damit ist es sehr schnell. Und das Ziel ist zu sagen, wir haben einen Bundler, wie gesagt, das Beste aus allen Welten der vorherigen existierenden Bundler verbindet. Schneller ist als alles aufm Markt, ist auch 'n RS Pack, was zum Beispiel in in geschrieben ist. Da ist Road dann so dreimal schneller ungefähr, ne. 2 bis 4, je nachdem welche Benchmarks, deswegen so ungefähr 3. Kann auch gern noch mal die Benchmarks verlinken, wenn's sich mal interessiert. Sind die werde aber freuen, sich aber oh, so schnell, ja. Auf jeden Fall. Für alles eine eine Gitterbrebo. Ist alles öffentlich. Kann man auch gern selber laufen lassen. Mhm. Ja, und dann war die okay, man man unified den Banner. ES Bild hat halt verschiedene Verhaltensweisen, die übernommen werden und verschiedene Features, so was wie ich kann Sachen incheckten und definen. Roll-up, wie gesagt, alle Plugins sollen idealerweise supportet werden oder man braucht sie vielleicht nicht mehr, weil sie schon in Rolldown mit drin sind. Das ist aber das Ziel, wenn man irgendwann sagt, okay, da kommen wir so zum, ne, übergeordneten Ziel, der Rolldown soll irgend eine Standardbander von werden. Die Leute wollen ja nicht alle ihre Projekte migrieren, sondern idealerweise irgendwann die Media Version wird gebamt und fertig, es geht. Das das wär halt so ganz schön. Und ja, da ist man entsprechend dran, das zu entwickeln. Rolldown ist aktuell 'n Beta 11, sowas in Richtung 1 Punkt 0. Punkt 0, Beta 11. Und es gibt sogar schon, das ist jetzt die große Neuerung vor 'n paar Tagen zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme gewesen, eine Technical Preview von Veed mit Rolldown. Nennt sich Rolldown Veed ist 'n Paket. Es gibt 'n sehr einfaches Migration Guide, effektiv einfach nur Alliascen oder über Package override, wenn man dann noch unter hat, die die mit nutzen. Und dann kann man's austesten. Und tatsächlich die Bild Speed improvements, die sind so Faktor drei- bis sechzehnfach, ne, nicht Prozent. Also das ist schon recht schnell. Wir hatten einige Tests mit Early Adoptern, also beispielsweise GitLab hat auf, also Open Source gibt's 'n Merch Request, das Ganze mal ausprobiert. Die haben jetzt keine riesigen Speed improvements, weil die recht kleine Bilds haben, aber bis zu hundertmal weniger Memory Consion. Das ist halt auch echt echt eine Nummer. Wo sagen, ja, okay, Speed ist ganz nett, aber auf einmal so CI Kosten, wir brauchen kleinere Maschinen. Und ansonsten so als bekannte Open Source Applikationen auf direct basierte, so sechzehnfach schnellere Bildes. Das ist halt ganz nett. Und diese Memory Optimization, die kam einfach durch Rust. Also Rust ist da so viel effizienter als Go oder was? Also das ist ja effizienter als JavaScript. Rollup ist ja ja JavaScript basieren und da geht's wirklich den den Bild. Also grade aktuell, der aktuelle Stand von, ist noch mal ganz gut, dass Du's ansprichst. Mhm. Da ist wirklich Optimierung für den den Bild Server, also für ich bilde. Okay. Der Dev Server ist weiterhin erst mal, aber später kann man nachher noch 'n bisschen ausführen, möchten wir natürlich auch sonen wieder einführen, eben diese Probleme, die Enterprise und Größeapplikation hat, mit einzuschränken. Aber man kann das dann einstellen, was man im Dev Server haben will, ob man's wandeln will oder Jein, also erst mal wird das so sein, genau. Effektiv, wir sind aktuell so in der Phase 1, wo wir sagen, es gibt dieses Technical Technical Preview von Roll on Bed, Leute können das austesten. Idealerweise ist einfach nur 'n Drop and Replacement und. Mhm. Wenn's Probleme gibt, raste gerne. Also wir haben schon einiges ein Feedback erhalten. Leute sind echt schnell, was das Fixen angeht. Das ist auch ganz schön, wenn man da Leute hat, die da Vollzeit dran sitzen. Mhm. Ist halt ein großer Vorteil, dass wir das bei Volicero ermöglichen können, dass halt Leute Vollzeit an dem Bundler und auch den darunter linken Twist sitzen. Ja. Und dann gibt's so Phase 2, das sind so, ist eigentlich so Phase 1 Punkt 5 und 2. Der soll als Opt in erst mal verfügbar sein, auch da, das zu stabilisieren, zu testen, zu gucken. Da kann man dann auch wählen. Und dann irgendwann, wenn sich stabil ist, ohne den Full Bundle Mode erst mal oder auch wenn der stabil ist zuerst, aber wahrscheinlich erst mal ohne, dann wird das Ganze in selber reingegeben. Zu sagen, okay, in 7 steht aktuell in Startlöchern. In Feed 8 wird es dann so zumindest das Ziel, ne, sondern irgend 'ner weiteren Majorversion nicht 7 auf jeden Fall, das ist 'n bisschen zu kurz. Wenn das alles gut getestet ist, keine Probleme und weitere Features implementiert sind, dann kann das losgehen. Vor allem Optimierung, ne. Feature Complete ist es noch nicht komplett, ne, aber ist man dabei? Es gibt so ein, 2 Sachen, grade so für Framework und Plug in Autoren, die vielleicht noch nicht implementiert sind. Das hält einen in der Regel keinen vom Testen ab. Genau und dann irgendwann Phase 3 wird dann der Punkt sein, wo auch der Full Bundle Mode als Default ist und man gar keinen mehr hat. Das liegt daran, dass son bisschen auch da wieder das Ziel ist Best of Boefords. Für kleine und mittlere Applikationen soll es trotzdem superschnell sein, ja, weil rasant basiert und optimiert. Heißt, wenn ich nur keine Ahnung paar Fires hab, dann lässt sich das ganz gut durchlaufen. Dann ist es egal, ob ich das anbandelt hab oder nicht. Die Start Time soll richtig, richtig schnell sein. Und wenn ich das Ganze aber in größeren Applikationen hab, dann hilft halt das Bundle oder der full Bundle Mode einfach zu sagen, ich hab 'n deutlich schnelleren Dev Server. Mhm. Sehr cool. Ja, viele Informationen jetzt. Ja. Es ja, es ist es ist aber auch 'n großes Ding, was ihr macht. Also ihr habt euch ja auch echt 'n großes Ziel gesetzt, das Beste aus verschiedenen Welten einzubringen. Und ich frag mich auch so in der Entwicklung von Rolldown, war das schwer, das alles mit reinzubringen? Oder ist es dadurch, dass es schon irgendwo existiert, relativ straight forward, das dann in ein Produkt, in eine Library zu gießen? Ja, also es ist recht schwierig. Auch da Disclaimer, ne, ich schreib selber jetzt nicht wirklich viel. Ich kontribute dich zur Rolldown oder den Tools darunter im Sinne von, ne, Hardcore Optimierung. Da gibt's viele Leute in unserem Team, die da richtig gut drin sind. Ich bleib dann eher vielleicht zu den Plug ins, die noch performancemäßig zu verbessern im Zusammenhang mit Rohdown, können wir auch noch nachher drüber quatschen oder so was wie 'n 'n paar kleine Änderungen, Verbesserung, Integration. Aber ja, ist natürlich superschwierig, wenn man sagt, ich möchte so das Beste aus allen Welten und dann gibt's vielleicht Tools, die dann unterschiedliche Meinungen und Auffassung haben, ne. An welchen Tools orientiert man sich dann letztendlich? Und dann ist natürlich auch der Punkt so den Overhead zwischen, ich hab jetzt eine Sprache, Rust, da muss ich dann ganz viele Codemanipulationen machen. Ich muss aus dem Code einen Abstract Syntext tree erstellen, ne, also die technische oder die schematische Aufarbeitung des Codes nicht einfach als String, sondern wirklich als Baum entsprechend mit welche Notes gibt's, wie sehen die aus? Mhm. Ja, das ist natürlich nicht ohne. Deswegen ist es auch super, wenn Leute das aktuell testen, sagen, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja Probleme oder irgendwas klappt nicht. Und natürlich versuchen wir auch da nicht nur Performance aktuell, ist ist natürlich super, so Sechzehnfach ist superschön. Da kommen natürlich noch deutlich mehr, sowohl builtime mäßig als auch einige Sachen, wo zum Beispiel Rollup richtig gut drin ist, ist, also Treeshaking. Mhm. Zu sagen, ich hab Funktionen, Variablen, die sind ungenutzt, die möchte nicht mit ins Bundle reingeben. Da arbeiten wir auch noch dran dann. Da gibt's ganz viele Verbesserungen, wo wir noch das Bundle deutlich kleiner machen können. Aber ja, insgesamt ist es auf jeden Fall keine einfache Leistung. Es hilft natürlich, dass man sagt, wir müssen nicht von 0 anfangen. Und sowohl Roller-up als auch ES Bild haben natürlich Testsuiten. Es ist also auch der Agnes gut zu sagen, man weiß, welches Verhalten man möchte. Dann kann man sich das entsprechend reinladen und dagegen implementieren. Mhm. Aber genau, es gibt halt durchaus Situationen, wo man sagt, okay, wie sollen man bestimmte Sachen handeln? Natürlich auch das ganze Thema, ne, ESM versus CGS, die 2 Formate in Javascript. Das ist eher mehr Legacy Format, was man eigentlich nicht mehr braucht, aber es halt trotzdem noch ganz viel gibt. CGS und ESM, was eigentlich so die Zukunft ist, ja, Spezifikationen. Die unterstützt beides noch. Genau. Liegt auch daran, so Kompatibilität first. Ja, okay. Idealerweise so meiner Meinung nach ESM ist die Zukunft. Es gibt eigentlich keinen guten Grund mehr, CGS zu nutzen, außer man hat halt noch eine Minerversion, wo man sagt, okay, hier in der nächsten Major, dann ist noch ESM only. Liegt daran, dass in Node selber man mittlerweile auch ECMA Skript Modules über nutzen kann. Node 18 ist halt mittlerweile End of Life und ab Node 20 wurd das Ganze gebackported. Heißt da sollte es ganz gut klappen, aber wie immer, dann gibt's Leute, die sagen, ja, was mit Electron? Was ist mit VISCODEXtensions? Also es ist halt leider nicht so einfach zu sagen, wir machen's nur ESM Only und fertig. Ich hoffe, wir kommen dahin irgendwann. Es kann sich nur Jahrzehnte handeln, aber ja. Und das sind auch alles so Themen und ja, es es ist tatsächlich sehr kompliziert. Und dann geht's auch weiter, wenn man sich noch mal dieses Thema Abstract Syntext tree anschaut. Es gibt viele Tools, die das machen, die sagen, ich nehm Code und pack das entsprechend zu 'n Syntax tree. Dafür gibt's auch eine Spezifikation, nennt sich ES3. Da halten sich die größten Parser und Code ran und auch die Leute, also zum Beispiel Linter erwarten dann 'n bestimmtes Format, das halt ES3 kompatibel ist. Da sind wir auch ganz gut dabei. Javascript ist komplett ESLINT, ESLINT ES3 kompatibel. Mhm. Type Script tatsächlich gestern die Meldung erhalten, dass das auch kompatibel ist. Das ja, ist tatsächlich echt challenging, da sich einfach komplett zu allein und dann gibt's trotzdem noch Edge Cases und Probleme, wo wir dann wiederum zu den anderen Tools gehen und sagen, hier guck mal, wir haben das spezifikationstreu implementiert, aber hier gibt's 'n Bug. Gab's auch son son Case, wo man das entsprechend rausgefunden hat und dann reportet hat, sich glaub Babel und auch anderen Tools gesagt, hier, das ist nicht ganz korrekt. Ja. Was ich auch sehr herausfordernd, aber auch irgendwie beeindruckend fand, war, dass beim ersten Release von Rolldown, der ja im April 20 24 war, schon die 50 Contributer beteiligt waren. Also das fand ich relativ viel fürn ersten Release und hab mich erstens gefragt, also woher kamen die ganzen Leute? Das waren Also irgendwie denk ich mir, vielleicht kommen sie aus, aber das ist ja 'n Javascript Welt. Woher kommen die Lust Leute? Und auch wie strukturiert man das dann, wenn so viele Leute am Anfang, wo ja noch vieles offen ist, dabei sind? Also wer hat dann da so die Flagge in der Hand? Ja, ich war tatsächlich, also ich hab das damals auch verfolgt, war da aber auch nicht dabei in in dem Sinne, dass ich's ganz von der Programmiersicht betrachte hab. Aber wo hätte Leute kommen, ist eigentlich ganz spannend. Können wir auch noch drüber reden, das Thema ne, Unify Toolchain in Javascript. Es gibt ja einige Projekte, die sagen, ja, lass mal 'n paar Sachen rastifyen, lass mal eine Toolchain für alles bauen. Dass wir eigentlich nur im besten Fall ein Kommando haben, ist überall integriert. Das ist son bisschen das Ziel von Void Zero als Firma, zu sagen, ja, wir brauchen uns nicht mal überlegen, welchen Formata, welchen Linder, welchen Bundler, welches Bildtour, welche Dokumentationsseite, welche Monorappe Support? So einfach dieses Problem zu sagen, jetzt hab ich die Tools, jetzt pick ich mir die irgendwie zusammen und dann gibt's doch wieder Probleme, weil die mit dem Framework nicht funktionieren, das zu lösen. Dann gab's vorher natürlich auch Projekte. Rome ist, glaub ich, mit das Bekannteste, wo ja 'n bisschen Geld veruntert wurde. Und dann gab's den, 'n Open Source Projekt, also Open Source, aber VCBAG und jetzt ist es Biom. Da kommen zum Beispiel einige Kontribute her, unser Engineering Bojenan, der für OXC, den, kommen wir auch drauf zurück, verantwortlich ist und da sehr, sehr viel macht. Der ist zum Beispiel ursprünglich hat er viel zu zu. Es gab viele Leute, die so aus der Turbopack und auch aus der RS Pack Richtung kamen. Also einfach Leute, die schon in dem Umfeld son bisschen kollabiert haben und da eine gute Möglichkeit sagen, zu sagen, okay, hier können wir entsprechend ja Impact wo Sachen, wenn wir was was machen, was ausrichten. Ja, okay, das das klingt schon cool und Du sprichst ja auch für das Projekt, dass so viele Leute, die Ahnung haben, da zusammenkommen und versuchen, was Einheitliches zu bauen. Aber ja, Du hast es eben schon erwähnt. Ich glaub, man kann über fast nicht ohne OX sprechen, oder? Es hängt sehr stark zusammen. Ja, absolut. Also da gehen wir jetzt noch mal eine Abstraktionsebene runter. Wir haben schon gesagt, okay, jetzt der Average Web Dev nutzt irgendwie Veat. So Veat nutzt irgendwann Rolldown, ne oder jetzt mit Roller Veat. Okay, ja, ist klar, Leute kümmern sich in der Regel wenig den Bandler. Aber den Bandler zu brauchen, braucht man natürlich auch irgendwie eine Art Foundation, ne. Also Tools, so wenn man überlegt, was macht 'n Compiler? Da hat irgendwie auch 'n Alexa und 'n Parser und so weiter im im im JavaScripts Universum. Was braucht man? Na ja, zum einen auch 'n Parser. Wir möchten ganz gerne eben diese Files, diesen Codestrings in AST überführen. Wir brauchen einen Transformer, dass man eben sagt, okay, man kann zum Beispiel sagen, ich möchte mein JSX transformieren, das können Plugins machen. Kann aber auch der Bundler direkt, wenn man möchte oder der Compiler in dem Fall. Dann geht's aber auch weiter so 'n Resolver, weil wirkt zeigt auf unterschiedliche Dateien. Wir möchten die gern finden. Gibt's auch wieder sehr viele unterschiedliche Spezifikationen. Und dann guckt man, sieht okay, wäre auch noch ganz schön, gibt's also auch 'n Minifier. Und was denk ich ganz interessant ist, dann für die wieder die Webentwickler, die jetzt nicht so tief in Bander und Compiler bauen Anführungsstrichen drin sind, Linter und Vormether, ja? Tatsächlich in dieser Suit des Oxidation Compilers, da steckt auch 'n Linter namens Oxlint, der ist so 50 bis hundertmal schneller als er's Lindt. Das ist schon ganz nett. Und 'n Vormeter, der ist noch Work in progress zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme. Oxformet, der so einfach pritja kompatibel sein. Ja, und wer das Logo kennt, das ist son Anker, der ist braun, weil ja, ist ja alles in Rost geschrieben, so wie ich cool. Es ist 'n rostiger Anker und wie entsteht Rost durch Oxidierung? Deswegen Mhm. Oxidation Compiler. Daher der Name, es ist immer noch nach wie vor eine eine coole Idee gewesen. Sibi und ich dachten ja, dass der Anker dafür da ist, weil dann die ganzen Entwickler bei diesem Anker hängenbleiben sozusagen. Auch gut, auch gut. Ja, ich sag mal, hoffentlich zieht's ziehen die Tools dann eigentlich runter wie 'n Anker, sondern ja, die wir probieren spielen. Sich stabilisieren einen, würde ich sagen. Genau, das ist auch gut. Ja. Weil die ganze die ganze JavaScript Welt ist ja sehr wild und es geht in viele verschiedene Richtungen. Ja, das kommt dann 'n bisschen Ruhe rein. Das ist ja auch nicht schlecht. Das ist das Ziel. Also auch da ist es halt recht spannend. Wir können gleich noch detailliert über die einzelnen Teile reden, aber ein großes Thema aktuell der React Compiler. Großes Thema, weil der ist aktuell in Babel geschrieben. Es gab mal die Überlegung zu sagen, wir machen 'n Rustport, der wurde wieder verworfen. Und jetzt gibt's einen Issue in der OXC Repository, wo dann Leute vom Reactteam gesagt haben, hier React Compiler, wie sieht's denn aus? Einfach weil haben wir letztens auch gesehen, es gab, Evan hat es geteilt von Sanity, dem dem CMS. Die haben mal geguckt, wie schnell das mit RoadUnbeat ist und mit und ohne Bubble Compiler und ist halt schon irgendwie 'n vierfacher Slow Down. Einfach, weil's halt in in oder geschrieben ist. Mhm. Und gut, dann ja, JavaScript dauert halt. Und wenn Du durch jedes, jedes, schwierig. Also. Ihr wolltet, dass der direkt Compiler 0XC nutzt hab ich das verstanden. Also, die Idee ist nicht mal zwingend. Das geht eher darum zu sagen, okay, den in was Schnelleres, also was Rustbasiertes zu legen. Und dann ist es, also muss ja nicht OX direkt nutzen. Ich glaub, dann finden das die Leute von von SwBC, ist auch anderes Projekt vielleicht nicht so cool, einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab 'n Kompatibilitätslayer, was einfach sagt, ich nutz Ashs Interstream, ne. Und dann zu sagen, hier, ich ich setze nicht voraus, Aber auf jeden Fall, falls ihr daran interessiert seid und react schreibende Compiler nutzt, folgt ihm gern mal. Ja. Und ansonsten, es es passieren einfach so viele Sachen, aber wenn man 'n OLC nimmt, wie's aktuell ist, ist ganz lustig. Der Parser selber ist eigentlich der schnellste Parser da draußen insgesamt im Web Dev Ecosystem für Java Script und Hype Skript. Wichtig ist da also, ne. Man möchte ja, dass das alles korrekt gepasst wird. Es gibt vom t c 49, also gibt's so einen Testsuite, die Test, ich glaub, so was in der Richtung, oder, grad mal kurz geguckt. Die sind alle sind alle ready und passend. Das ist immer wichtig, wenn man Sachen implementiert, dass es auch alles wirklich so hinhaut. Man möchte ja nicht so, okay, man passt, was auf einmal kommt, was Falsches bei raus. Man möchte ganz gern die Nutzer da nicht enttäuschen. Und so als Benchmark, SWC, grade ja Direktnutzer nutzen das viel, was halt einfach schneller ist für das ganze Thema Parsend Transform. Mhm. Ja, Oxy ist dreimal schneller als das und ist auch schon Rust Tool, also auch ganz, ganz ordentlich. Genau, da kann man, wie gesagt, so Transformer, Resolver und so, auch weiter gucken sie alle auch recht schnell. Der Minifeier aktuell noch 'n Alpha, könnte aber trotzdem schon recht gut nutzen. Da geht's einfach darum, wir wollen das noch mal stabilisieren. Es gibt noch einige Optimierungen, die wir verbessern können, aber von der, ich sag mal, Geschwindigkeit zu Output, also zu Comprestred Output Ratio ist damit der Beste. Es gibt natürlich Minifier, die sind schneller. Die kriegen dann größere Bundles am Ende, weil klar, muss irgendwo Trade offs machen, andersrum genauso. Ich kann sagen, ich möchte 'n ganz kleines Bundle, dann dauert das aber länger. Wir ziehen natürlich darauf ab, dass wir im Idealfall beides machen können. Mal gucken, wie gut das wird. Aber auf jeden Fall, wir sind da auch Benchmarkstechnische irgendwie sagen mit, wir wandeln Typescript als Datei oder verschiedene andere Sachen ganz gut dabei. Je nachdem, welche Metrik man geht, eigentlich immer in den Top 3. Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr euch bei dem Plug in System von Rolldown an Rollup orientiert habt, Mhm. Dass ihr bei dem Oxlind euch an Erstland orientiert habt und Oxformat an Pritia? Jein. Also ist ist fast richtig. Oxformat auf jeden Fall Pretia kompatibel, genau. Tatsächlich als Funfact dazu, Teile von OXC gab's zum PR können schon, also der OXC Browser kann schon in Pretia genutzt werden. Es gibt dadurch schon Speed-up. Ist natürlich nicht ganz so schnell wie alles in in Rust entsprechend zu bauen. Liegt einfach daran, dass man sagt, okay, Pritya ist so der de facto Standard, das ist, aber. So, man will sich in der Regel wenig Gedanken machen, zu sagen, welches Tour nehm ich dann und so weiter. Und die gleiche Idee gilt eigentlich auch für den Rest der der Toolchain. Bei Oxland ist son bisschen das Problem in Anführungsstrichen. Ja, ISland ist halt der Platzhirsch, jeder nutzt ISland. 'N paar Leute nutzen Bayern und einige nutzen Oxland natürlich. Jetzt ist son bisschen der Punkt, was macht man da? Und was wir gemacht haben, ist, wir haben 5 mehr als 500 Regeln importiert, von Airceland in Rust. Das heißt, die laufen da von den beliebtesten Paketen mit. Einzelne einzige Ausnahmen, die's aktuell nicht gibt, sind stilistische Regeln, weil das soll der Vormieter machen, also so was wie Sortieren von Imports, dies, das. Und Type Awaren Lining, weil das einfach recht schwierig ist. Dann muss halt typecript involviert sein eigentlich. Muss man also gucken, wie man das sinnvoll und Performance hinbekommt. Heißt, die gibt's noch nicht. Der Rest ist eigentlich wieder so die populärsten Sachen sind implementiert. Auxland reagiert auch auf so was wie einfach nur Kompatibilität mit so dem dem Platzhirsch. Das Schwierigste und Spannendste ist eigentlich das Thema Custom Rules. Also so was wie Firmen haben ihre eigene Linch Rules. Wie schreib ich die? Weil die will man ja nicht zwingend alle in Rust schreiben. Und da ist, also da gibt's auch 'n lange Isch schon mit Diskussionen und Informationen, son bisschen das Problem der Trade off mit Kompatibilität. Also son bisschen wie, na machen wir jetzt alles ISIN kompatibel, dann verzichte aber auf Performance. Wir haben sehr viel Legacy Probleme, weil die ganzen Probleme der ASLIN APPI, das sind jetzt nicht Tausende nehm ich mal an, aber es sind genug, ja, sind dann auch bei uns. Man müsste das in Zünd halten und so weiter. Dann gibt's Dino zum Beispiel haben wir's gemacht, die haben eine komplett neue API für so Linting bereitgestellt. Hast Du das Problem? Okay, wie ist das mit Adoption, als ob jetzt alle Leute, die 'n, Plug in Mainain ist auch als Dino Lind Plug in bereitstellen, das ist halt auch schwierig. Was wir versuchen, wir versuchen halt, was die angeht, so kompatibel wie möglich zu sein, ohne auf so viel Performance zu verzichten. Da wird aktuell noch viel experimentiert, deswegen gibt's auch aktuell noch keinen Javascript Plug in Support, aber der wird auf jeden Fall kommen. Nicht zu 1 Punkt 0 tatsächlich, aber weitergehend, wir haben da 'n Blogpost in der Pipeline, weil die stabile Ochse in der 1 Punkt 0 Version steht, son bisschen vor der Tür. Und das ist halt 1 der Fokus, die wir eigentlich ganz gern legen wollen, ne. Sozusagen, okay, ihr könnt eure Custom Lindruhes schreiben, weil auch da wieder, wenn man in Richtung Enterprise guckt, es gibt Firmen, die haben über Hunderte, teilweise Tausende Custom Lindruhes. Und da will man's nicht sagen, ja, könntest Du nicht benutzen. Tschüs. Meine Frage zielte eigentlich son bisschen in Richtung Vision. Mhm. Dadurch, dass die, also hattest Du euch schon grade son bisschen angerissen. Also die Konfigurationssachen, die, also gibt's da, habt seht ihr da irgendwo noch Verbesserungsbedarf? Also weil mir mir dreht's dir immer der Magen und wenn ich dran denk, oh nein, ich muss jetzt in meine IS LinConfig irgendwas reinschreiben. Ja. Wie geht das noch mal und dann, wie war noch mal die Prettyer Config? Was wie heißt das alles? Genau. So. Also wir idealerweise so die Idee wäre und das half eigentlich jetzt schon ganz gut, es ist halt und, ne. Also im besten Fall brauchst Du nichts zu konfigurieren. Du kannst einfach zum Beispiel jetzt schon sagen, Du lässt einfach laufen. Da sind alle Regeln, die, also sagen, der Code soll nicht falsch sein, ne, sind an und dann ist gut. Jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, es gibt immer Caseblatt, ich möchte die Lintriegel ausstellen, ich möchte was Custom hinzufügen, die ist das, klar. Aber die Idee ist auch da wieder ne, Unify Toolchain als Big Picture, It justworks ist immer son bisschen in der Ausnahme, wie gesagt. Da gibt's verschiedenste Präferenzen, dies das. Aber ich glaub so für das Allgemeine wirklich die Idee zu sagen, Du lastenkommando laufen und es funktioniert und Caching ist eingebaut im im im besten Fall. Es ist alles performant und Du musst dir darüber keine Sorgen machen. Also das ist das das große, große Ziel. Schön. Ich hätte noch eine andere Frage und zwar zu dem Punkt, dass wir im Dev Server den Bundled Mode haben. Ja. Und ich wollte eigentlich nur noch mal einen Beispiel von dir haben für, es ist mir auf die Füße gefallen, dass es anbandelt und buntelt gibt. Also aktuell in wie, genau, hast Du den Devserver, der ist nur anbandelt. Bedeutet also sowas wie Performance Checks kannst Du sehr schwierig machen oder gucken, welche werden wann wie importiert. Das geht halt alles nicht. Also Du kannst halt schlecht sagen, welches Javaskulptfall, welcher Junk der dann auch im Production so wäre mit und so weiter, importiert dann welchen Chunk? Warum wird was geladen? Na, son bisschen Performancormimierung zum Beispiel oder auch so das Thema, ne, Da wär's halt ganz gut, wenn man das einfach in ähnlich wie in hätte. Jetzt natürlich nicht Minifight, ne, da kann man sagen, okay, performancetechnisch Messung wär eigentlich ganz gut, wenn man's auf Staging macht, aber zumindest, dass der Dev halt nachvollziehen kann, das funktioniert halt genauso. Und auf der anderen Seite aus Veeds Entwicklersicht oder aus Veed Teamsicht auch, es ist halt Komplexität. Also sobald ich halt ES, erst jetzt sag ich schon, ES Bild und Rollup beides bedenken muss bei allen Featuren, weil die sollen ja in der und auch in Produktion funktionieren, ist es recht schwierig. Genauso Veed Bau zum Beispiel hat eine eigenen HMA Mechanismus, also Hotmody Reload oder Hotmody Reload. Das wird's in Zukunft auch von übernommen, sodass halt da auch Komplexität wegfällt, weil das kann der Bande dann direkt, da braucht sich viel nicht drum kümmern, da kann das Ganze einfach adaptieren und und fertig. Also auf Entwicklerseite fällt halt Komplexität weg zu sagen, jetzt werden meine geladen. Ich seh jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, 1000 requests im Network, sondern ich seh halt, okay, hier ist der Entrychunk, hier ist dies das versus, ne, auch wie gesagt, von der der Sicht weniger Komplexität, was ja auch nicht schlecht ist. Bedeutet auch weniger Bugs. Cool, ja, das versteh ich. Aber das war wäre dann wirklich Langzeit, Langzeit, weil ihr wolltet doch beide Modes noch weiter supporten oder? Langzeit, Langzeit ist immer so schwierig. Die die Phasen, die ich vorhin erwähnt hatte, da geht's halt Monate, nicht Jahre. Das heißt also, solange der Full Bundle Mod opt in wird, sobald er dann kommt, ne, Opt in wird der getestet, genauso wie jetzt halt getestet wird. Und sobald das stabilisiert ist, es keine Probleme damit gibt, alle Kinderkrankheiten ausgebildet ist, ist das Ziel, das dann irgendwann als zu machen. Das wird aber dann, geh ich stark von aus, auch irgendwann in 'ner Major Version passieren, die jetzt nicht 8 ist, weil da kommt ja erst mit Rolldown. Da wird's ja noch mit Opt in bleiben, sondern 9, 10, wie auch immer. Genau, aber am Ende das das Maintain von Biden ist halt son bisschen schwierig, wenn man sagt, okay, es gibt halt einen Modus, der hat keine Trade offs, egal ob Du eine kleine oder große Applikation hast. Dann ist die Frage, warum warum behält man so die Komplexität, wenn's auch anders geht? Ich glaub, der ist superhilfreich gewesen, zum einen erst mal Entwicklern zu zeigen, hey, es geht doch schneller als in Webpack und hat sehr viel so zu Veats Popularität und auch son bisschen Identität mit beigetragen. Aber ich glaub, ab 'nem gewissen Punkt ist ja dann zu sagen, gut, warum, wenn's auch mit 'nem anderen Modus, der halt für alle Cases funktioniert, besser geht und eigentlich keine Nachteile hat, wenn's halt auch Speedtechnisch ähnlich ist. Und die und die Speed Improvings kommen dann, weil es eben in Rust geschrieben ist. Dann ist der Bundle Mode ähnlich schnell wie der Unbundle? Genau, also die Idee wäre zu sagen, Webpack hat ja dann ewig gedauert. Genau, dadurch das Ganze dann Rust geschrieben ist, deutlich optimierter läuft und ja, wir entsprechend auch aus den den Lehren da gelernt haben und auch natürlich einige Optimierungen nicht brauchen für den Dev Mode, dann würde das entsprechend schneller funktionieren, korrekt. Als als nur so kleiner Hinweis oder als Randnotiz, wenn man sagt, wie schnell, man kennt das ja bei t s und t s go, ne, als gesagt hat, wir erporten nach go. Es wird alles zehnmal schneller. Das ist halt recht cool. Aber ich hab son eine Statistik mal mitgebracht, die größte Repository, wo man mal Oxland drübergelaufen hat, ne. Ist jetzt kein Bundler, aber Linzin ist trotzdem recht aufwendig. Das ist recht cool. Da haben wir eine Pfeilanzahl von fast also 264925 Firers, also sag mal, 265 Firers. 101, also 101 Regeln. 10 Threads wurden genutzt, auch wieder das Vorteil, ne, Multi Threading. So, könnt ihr mal schätzen, wie lang hat es denn gedauert, über diese 265000 Files mit Oxland und den 100 und eine Regel drüber laufen zu lassen? Können wir raten? 15 Sekunden. 15 Sekunden, okay. Zweihundertfünfsechstausend, Pfizer 5 Sekunden. Das wär schon Okay, ich hab gar keine Referenz, was passiert. Also ich sag mal so im in IS sind brauchen wir dafür ziemlich sicher Stunden. Ah, okay. Ah, okay, da sind wir. Da sind wir. Ich wollt jetzt 3 Sekunden ansetzen, aber jetzt würde ich höher höher gehen. Keine Ahnung. Sagen wir mal eine Minute. Eine Minute. Eine Minute, ja. 22.5 Sekunden. Ah, let's go. Ja, ja, okay. Nee, es war war gar nicht so schlecht tatsächlich. Ja, ich hab mich vielleicht 'n kleines bisschen irre geführt, aber das ist ja wirklich, das sind so die Szenarien, wo man halt auch merkt, okay, diese Tools, die in nativer Sprache geschrieben sind Mhm. Und das ist einfach, also auch bei so Minifeiern, wenn Du sagst, Du Theresa zum Beispiel ist ja auch sehr populär oder eigentlich dann, wenn man das wirklich vergleicht, dann gibt's halt irgendwann einfach Time aus oder sagt man, okay, ist es nicht. Deswegen zum Beispiel Shopify nutzt Oxin schon bei sich für verschiedene Regeln. Müssen nicht mehr alle sein, einfach zu sagen, die die teuren Regeln, so was wie, guck bitte, dass es keine zyklischen Dependencies gibt. Ja. Ja, da brauchst Du halt auch alle Files, weil na ja, Du willst ja gucken, ob's irgendwelche Kreise da drin gibt. Mhm. Und dann zu sagen, okay, wir haben das halt in 'ner riesigen Monorepo, ne, klar, dann geht's halt nicht anders, als auf auf solches Toolings zu setzen. Und das ist eigentlich auch ganz schön zu sehen, dass dass genau das passiert, dass halt genau die großen Cases, ne, für die funktioniert's dann auf einmal. Und auf einmal braucht man nicht mehr Stunden, selbst wenn's eine halbe Stunde ist, dass man das Ganze im CI hat. Das ist doch alles Zeit. Es hat aber jetzt ist jemand geschrieben, so allein, dass die Leute auf Roaddown Beatriert sind, ne, kein Linta geändert oder gar nichts. 50000 Dollar im Jahr ist die Ei Kosten gespart, einfach durch die Zeit. So. Ich glaub, wenn das Ja. Was macht die Firma jetzt, mit denen man sieht? Mhm. Ja. Ja, wenn man Ja, das wird doch gespendet an euch, oder? Ich wollt grad sagen, also so so Ich glaub, vielleicht springt eine Open Source Contution bei rum. Mercedes Benz zum Beispiel, wir hatten auch 'n Post gemacht, Mercedes Benz I o, die sagen hier modernes Tooling und Co und wie viel man so an an Zeit sparen würde. Und dann hat auch jemand auf, ich glaub Bluescare geschrieben so, hey, ist ja voll cool. Ich hoffe, dann sprechen wird 'n bisschen des Geldes reinvestiert, das auch weiter zu ermöglichen. Deswegen, das ist eigentlich auch mal 'n ganz cooler Punkt so, man upgradet auf die Tour, es ist halt for free in dem Sinne. Und wenn dann keine Ahnung, Zehntausende, 100000, wie auch immer Dollar, Euro gespart werden, Uns die Möglichkeit gibt, in der Firma was zurückzugeben, das ist immer eine gute Option dann an Open Source Projekte, ne. Da gibt's eine ganz große Auswahl natürlich von Veed, von den Projekten, die wieder aber auch einfach, was ihr benutzt. Es kann ja 'n kleines Modul sein, das kann 'n Framework sein, was zurückzugeben. Bin ich immer 'n großer Fan von. Ich fänd's halt einfach krass, was das dann für Auswirkungen hat, vor allen Dingen im Enterprise Bereich. Vor allem, also auch mit der Geldgeschichte. Also die Zeit, die man sich spart, ist ja schon immer cool. Und das ist ja auch noch mal Geld, wenn man sagt, okay, Genau. Bei mir Produktivität, aber wirklich auch so CI Kosten noch dazu. Das ist halt echt krass. Ja. Aber reizt es sich als, Source Contributer 'n bisschen in einzusteigen? Weil Du hast ja schon gesagt, das passiert grad an vielen Stellen und es hat halt auch sehr viel Sinn, das zu machen. Reizt sich das irgendwie? An sich ja. Also ich würd auch ganz gerne 'n paar kleine, was weiß ich, vielleicht mal in der Regel oder so was, son paar gut First Issues bei zum Beispiel OXC oder so Oxland in dem Fall oder so mit reingeben. Ich hatte Rust mir schon mal vor Jahren, so vor 5 Jahren oder so was, mir angeschaut, in dem Fall war's schon die neue trendige Sprache. Ich bin jetzt nicht so der, ich sag mal, Low Level Mensch in Anführungsstrichen, so c c plus plus ist jetzt nicht so persönlich meins. Bin ja war eigentlich lange Zeit der Freund von, ich bau coole Sachen und hier seht mal und nicht, jetzt kann ich das krass optimieren. Auf der anderen Seite natürlich, wenn man die Tools hat und son bisschen die Kombination, ja, reizt mich schon. Aktuell seh ich natürlich, meine Zeit ist da ganz gut investiert zu sagen, ich erkläre das und das, was die Leute im Team mitarbeiten. Ich guck, dass das aus die x-Sicht irgendwie passt. Ich geborene Feedback und kann so, ich denk mal, zeitlich besser contributen, aber bestimmt guck ich mal hobbymäßig rein. Weil ey, das ist superspannend, definitiv. Ich find's auf jeden Fall cool, auch wie es Communities zusammenbringt, ne. So Javascript und werden da wahrscheinlich grad sehr zusammen, also die finden sich zusammen. Und auch allein, was wir, also auch das, was Oxy überhaupt macht, so viele verschiedene Dinge zusammenbringen und das Beste aus allen Welten. Und wir haben ja auch schon 'n paarmal Void Zero angesprochen. Ist es richtig, dass Du das so verstehe, dass das auch das Ziel von Void Zero ist, das Ganze zusammenbringen und zu vereinheitlichen? Genau, also bei Void Zero ist das Ziel in dieser, ich hatt's zum Hammer gesagt, Unified Javascript Tool Chain. Ich glaub, auch wenn wir bei beim Thema Rust bleiben, ist das ganz gut. Evan hat dann gesagt, so das Cargo für JavaScript. Also einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab effektiv ein Tool, ne. Und ich mein, wenn man jetzt sagt, das ist Veed oder Veed Plus, was grad in der Mache ist, dann zu sagen, okay, alles klar, damit kann ich wirklich alles abdecken, was das komplette Ökosystem braucht. Weil das geht, wie gesagt, das Thema, okay, ich kann irgendwas bauen, sei das eine Applikation, sei das eine Library, ne, soll auch mit abgedeckt werden. Aktuell gibt's Tools on top of Rolldown so als library Bundler. TS Down ist damit das bekannteste. Es gibt dann noch O-Bild. Heißt, wenn ihr 'n Library habt und der nutzt da irgendwas zu bauen, guckt euch das mal an. Ist recht einfach. Gibt's auch 'n schönes Video als Explainer, weiß ja nicht das interessiert. Mhm. Und dann, genau, geht's halt weiter. Vielleicht auch irgendwann sagen, ich kann mein Javasker Backend damit bauen, ne. Und eigentlich alle Jobs übernehmen, Linting, Formating, ich kann Docks erstellen. Ich hab irgendwie Dev Tools zum Beispiel Anthony Fu ist bestimmt vielen Namen der abarbeitet seit geraumer Zeit an den Dev Tools. Das auch, ja, ist Open Source. Sagen jedes Projekt kann einfach direkt sehen, okay, nicht nur Band kann man jetzt schon mit 'nem Visualizer, aber zum Beispiel wie lange braucht denn mein Bild? Welche Plugins dauern denn lange? Was gibt's da für Probleme? Und noch weiteres, Framework können ihre eigenen Integrationen für die DevTws dann bereitstellen, dann was Spezifisches zu haben und so weiter und so weiter. Also da ist echt viel in Arbeit und dann ja mit mit wie plus so die Idee zu haben, wir haben so das eine Ding und das covert eigentlich wirklich alles. V plus ist mir kein Begriff. Genau. Halt Du das mal. Das das ist auch das ist auch, wie gesagt, das ist in the Making. Ich kann noch nicht so viel persönlich drüber berichten, außerdem, dass das so das Ziel ist. Das ist das bei Void Zero, muss man auch dazu sagen, kann ich auch 'n bisschen ausholen. Wir haben ja Venture Capital. Das erlaubt am Ende, dass Leute auch Vollzeit in derToolchen arbeiten können, weil aktuell machen wir de facto kein Geld. Mhm. Ne, ist ja alles Open Source. Es gibt vielleicht hier und da Firmen, die sagen, ja, hier könnt ihr uns helfen. Also bisschen klassisch, ne, Consulting oder in dem Sinne Verträge habe, dass nichts was skaliert oder womit man die Leute inklusive wieder finanzieren kann. Deswegen so VI plus wird das Produkt sein. Evan hat das auf der Jazz World schon mal vorgestellt, so heißt das Cargo für Javas Klub, einfach zu sagen, das ist eben das, was das Ganze komplett vereinheitlicht, was man dann entsprechend nutzen kann. Mehr dann im Herbst. So viel kann ich schon mal spoilern. Viet plus klingt 'n bisschen dann wie ein, also Produkt, was son wie son Pro Produkt, also was dann bezahlt wird, aber das ist es nicht. Also es soll dann Open Source bleiben. Das ist son bisschen der Punkt, wo man natürlich gucken muss, Monetarisierung ist ein wichtiger Punkt. Ja. Ich also ich sag mal, wenn ich persönlich jetzt, ne, losgelöst, es gibt viele unterschiedlichste Möglichkeiten, Projekte zu finanzieren. Zum Beispiel, wenn man überlegt, Direktors ist 'n CMS. Vielleicht kennt das einige, die haben zum Beispiel 'n Dual Licensing, also die machen BSL Business Source Licens und sagen, hey, ihr könnt das nutzen, alles kein Problem. Aber wenn ihr 'n bestimmten revenue Threshold übersteigt, also wenn ihr 'n bestimmtes jährlichen Umsatz habt, dann braucht ihr eine Lizenz. Mhm. So und natürlich das Ziel ist nicht zu sagen, wir Geld geben jetzt die Community, sondern dann das Ziel ist eigentlich zu sagen und das haben wir eigentlich auch immer gesagt, auch als ich noch nicht in der Firma war und Evan im Herbst letzten Jahres darüber interviewt hab, das Ziel ist, Enterprise zu fokussieren, was die Monetarisierung angeht. Deswegen es es wird vieles sein, aber es wird nicht so sein, dass sagt, okay, jetzt könnt ihr das Produkt nutzen, wenn ihr keine Ahnung, fünfer Monat zahlt oder zehner Monat. Deswegen da keine Sorge. Ja. Und wichtig ist auch, das ist auch noch wichtig, hinzuzufügen, alles, was aktuell unter MIT Leistungs bleibt, wird auch unter, also was unter MIT Leistungs ist, bleibt MIT Leistungs. Mhm. Mach also keine Rugpols, das ist gar nicht geplant. Ist auch Quatsch, weil grade, ne, wir bauen alles rund Veat, wenn wir sagen, Veat wird irgendwie oder so was. Ja, das wird 'n weiteres Web Dev Chaos auslösen und es bringt halt auch gar nichts. Mhm. Genau. Wie, wie Du denkst. Nee, ich hab, ja, also ich hatte auch nur vom Veed plus erfahren, dass das halt irgendwann Ende des Jahres. Und jetzt überleg ich grade, wollt ich wegen der, wegen dem Time Frame, weil Du sagtest ja, wir reden hier gar nicht von Jahren, wir reden von Monaten. Mhm. Das heißt, die Sachen, die jetzt grade noch in the making sind, was meinst Du, Minifier und nee, Vormetter? Genau, Vormetter ist son Prototyp, der wird ziemlich sicher bis bis Herbst verfügbar sein. Genau, Minifier ist halt 'n Alpha, da geht's mal Stabilisierung. Und ansonsten ist die Toolchan, da ist schon ganz gut aus, würd ich sagen. Okay. Und dann eben selber, wie schon gesagt, so die Phasen, da geht's auch entsprechend Monate. Wow. Auf der OXC Webseite ist noch die Nova JavaScript Engine auf Genau, ich weiß, ja, tatsächlich muss ich ehrlich sagen, ist kein Projekt von uns, ist halt ein Projekt auch Rust basiert, was tatsächlich OXC nutzt. Also auch da OXC als eigenständiges Projekt zu sehen, das ist natürlich auch ganz nett zu sagen. Es gibt verschiedene Sachen, die drauf bauen. Aber to be fair, die Website, ich hoffe, wenn ihr, liebe Hörer da draußen, dass ihr auf OXC Punkt ice geht, ist die schon geupdatet, weil ich nämlich auch als der Minifeier, der Prototyp Complete ist. Da ist noch einiges an Arbeit zu tun, aber wie immer, das gibt's hin und vorne und an allen Enden. Ich updatet das, bis ihr das hört. Genau. Aber genau, Javasc engine, das ist ja, wenn man noch mal wieder runtergeht und sagt, okay, ich möchte dann ganz gerne mein Javaskript irgendwo laufen lassen. Aber das ist 'n Work in progress Projekt. Weiteres Spannendes ist, die machen ja Javacript Engine basierend auf JavaScript, die das dann zu, ich glaub, irgendwie oder so komplettiert, ist auch alles ganz wild. Hat aber alles nicht viel mit Oxy zu tun, außer bei Nova, wie gesagt, die nutzen Oxy als Projekt selber. Okay. Genau. Wir springen zwar 'n bisschen, aber ich will eigentlich auch noch mal zurückkommen auf Viceuro. Vor allen Dingen, ich stell's mir halt schwer vor, wenn man so finanziert wird, die Interessen, beide Interessen irgendwie abzudecken. Also wie schafft man wie schafft man diesen Spagat, Open Source und das, was die brauchen, zu halten und was jetzt auch die Firmen von euch waren. Also zum Beispiel, was wollen die Firmen denn von euch? Genau, das ist 'n guter Punkt. Wie gesagt, lustigerweise, ich denk ja immer zurück, so fast 'n fast 'n Jahr zurück in Japan, wo ich Evan als ja das Publicy Announce halt auch gefragt hatte. Weil die Hornhaut von der Konferenz sagt, hey, lass 'n lass 'n Interview machen eine Stunde. Und das auch erst mal der Punkt, als das Announcement kam mit, okay, es gab Seed Money, ne, von Void Starow, cool, 4 Punkt 6000000, dann denkst Du erst mal, okay. Rome, oh, das lief gar nicht gut. Weitere Open Source Projekte mit Finanzierung. Oh, was ich, was war's? Planenscale, Free Treal gekürzt, dies, das. Da siehst Du son bisschen die Horrormeldungen. Mhm. Und das ist voll fair. Das Problem ist, es gibt also Open Source und VC ist nicht zwingend problematisch. Es kommt halt auf viele Sachen drauf an. Zum einen, wer steht hinter dem Projekt, ne? Evan mit 'nem Trackrekord von View und Weed, der also wirklich sich für Open Source einsetzt, ist jetzt niemanden, wo ich persönlich sag, ich würd dem Rugpool zutrauen so. Mhm. Der würde es nicht machen. Weil ich glaub, er hat sich so guten Namen gemacht, wenn er irgendwie schnell Geld braucht, gibt's da andere Methoden als zu sagen, ich grün eine Firma und dann mach ich hier, was weiß ich, kommerziell. Mhm. Das ist auch das Ding. Schnelles Geld ist gar nicht das Ziel. Wie gesagt, wir Die Firma gibt's jetzt seit fast 'nem 'nem Jahr oder seit 'nem Jahr war's ja angekündigt offiziell, gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger. Es ist noch kein Geld geflossen, dieser bis auf Consultantcy Contracts. Da sieht man aber auch, dass Evan sich die Investoren, denk ich, ganz gut ausgesucht hat. Also zu sagen, okay, das Ziel ist erst mal diese Tool Chain zu bauen, erst mal die Fundamente für die Tool Chain zu bauen. Also Rolldown, das entsprechend wie zu integrieren, ne? OXC, Formatter, Linter und so weiter. Und dann irgendwann zu sagen, es gibt ein Produkt, dann gibt's halt irgendwie zum Beispiel Enterprise sowohl Support als auch irgendwie ne, Monterisierung. Es könnte sowas wie Hosted Solutions geben. Es gibt da ganz viel Möglichkeiten, was drumrum zu bauen. Wir sehen jetzt in anderen Ökosystemen auch, Laverwell zum Beispiel allen voran dran mit Taylor Ottwell, Taylor und Evan ja auch gut befreundet, die jetzt auch mit Laverwell Cloud riesiges Investment haben, aber auch ganz viel drum rum haben, was aber dem Framework eigentlich gar nicht selber schadet. Mhm. Heißt, da die Interessen zu vertreten, ist recht gut möglich, wenn man sich die richtigen Leute auszusamm, die auch an die Vision glauben. Mhm. Wenn man das vergleicht mit dem, ist vielleicht böse gesagt, aber dem average Start-up, sagt, okay, wir haben eine coole Idee. Wir haben eigentlich nichts vorzuweisen, vielleicht 'n MVP. Hier ist eine Demo, wir brauchen Geld. Dann ist es natürlich eine ganz andere Reihe von Leuten, die vielleicht interessiert sind oder wo man entsprechend Investitionen und Funding bekommt als, hey, ich bin der Hersteller von View undViet. Ich habe eine Vision für die Javascript Welt. Guckt mal. So, dann sind die Investoren auch nicht so, die sagen, ich brauch meinen jetzt nächsten Monat, sondern okay, wir geben Zeit, wir machen und wir glauben immer an diese Vision zu sagen, macht halt Web Development an sich besser. Und natürlich, dabei soll am Ende auch Geld rumkommen, keine Frage. So was, eine Firma ist nun mal profitorientiert, aber das ist aktuell gar nicht der Fokus und wird dann, wie gesagt, spannend durch Produkte wie zum Beispiel wie Plus oder wie andere Sachen, die später kommen könnten, Mhm. Wie das Ganze dann wird. Das heißt, im schlimm oder was heißt im schlimmsten Fall, aber im Fall der Fälle würdet ihr auch Investoren ablehnen, die nicht mit dieser Vision übereinstimmen, die was anderes von euch wollen, als was ihr wollt. Das ist definitiv in der Auswahl der Investoren passiert, ja. Also ich war ich war nicht dabei, aber ich hab da genug Gespräch drüber gehabt zu sagen, okay, es man hat sich da schon ganz gut die Leute ausgesucht und angeschaut, Mhm. Hat die entsprechend eben da die Vision mit verfolgen verstehen tragen können und auch was zu beitragen können, ne. Es geht jetzt ginge nicht darum zu sagen, wer kann mir das meiste Geld geben, sondern es geht darum auch, wie können Investoren hilfreich sein, diese Visionen letztendlich umzusetzen, ne. Mhm. Also sowohl ne, Netzwerk, bestimmte Personen, wenn man's sieht, okay, es sind Leute, mit dem jemand von Natlefy zum Beispiel dabei, der investiert hat. Einige wirklich bekannte Business Angel aus dem Webuniversum, wo man sagt, okay, die verstehen das Ganze aus 'ner technischen Sicht, können aber auch helfen, das Ganze vor voranzubringen. Mhm. Ja, ich seh die ganzen vor Vorteile daran und auch dieses, ja, Problem in der Open Source Welt, Geld generell als Problem vielleicht damit lösen zu können. Ich hoffe auf jeden Fall und ich wünsch euch viel Erfolg und auch irgendwie 'n guten Weg, dass es für euch gut funktioniert und ihr da vielleicht auch Vorreiter fürn Positivbeispiel seid, weil eben hast Du eigentlich nur Negativbeispiel aus der Vergangenheit genannt. Ich kenn jetzt auch selber kein positives, aber ich hab irgendwie 'n gutes Gefühl bei euch. Die Bedingungen wirken gut. Vielen lieben Dank. Ja, ja. Leute. Ja. Also ich ich muss sagen, es gibt durchaus positiv Beispiele so. Ich glaub Superbase ist ein Positivbeispiel, wo man sagt, okay, hey, die haben hier, die machen coole Sachen, ne. Stack Blitz und irgendwie. Es gibt schon es gibt schon einige, wenn man jetzt nicht nur so auf die negativ, aber das, wie's grad gesagt hat, die negativen Sachen bleibt halt hängen, wie's ganz oft so ist. Das stimmt. Spannenderweise das Thema Open Source und Geld könnte man noch mal eine ganz eigene Episode mit füllen, aber nur, das unterzubringen. Ich hab nämlich da, ich ich hab mir auch immer gesagt so, ja, warum denn eine Firma? Warum nicht was anderes? Und da ist der Punkt, das Ziel, ne, man muss erst mal mit 'ner bestimmten Geschwindigkeit dran arbeiten, sonst passiert halt nicht viel. Du kannst ja nicht sagen, wir arbeiten da son paar Stunden nachmittags dran. Ich muss ja die Rechnung zahlen, deswegen arbeite ich eigentlich woanders Mhm. Und so weiter. Und grad die Leute, die sich mit dem Thema auskennen, wie schon gesagt, es gab eine Leute, die vorhin an RRS Pack gearbeitet haben, an Biom on Österreichs Rome gearbeitet haben und die dann mit dabei sind. Aber auch einfach, weil es dann halt möglich ist, die Rechnung zu zahlen. Mhm. Ja, und das ist halt natürlich 'n Punkt, wo man sagt, wenn man das Ganze realisieren will und da geht's dann nicht Jahrzehnte, sondern Monate und Jahre, also ist auch in 'ner guten Geschwindigkeit. Und das das find ich sieht man eigentlich bei World Zero ganz gut, dass das passiert. So nicht nur, dass irgendwie Issues superschnell beantwortet werden, aber auch einfach, dass es dass einfach es geht vorwärts. Und dann halt ja, das das geht eigentlich nur, wenn man entsprechend Geld zur Verfügung hat. Und man sieht das beim View Team wiederum, das View Team ist halt underfundet an sich, so Evan Sponsor oder gibt's Geld zu Mainainern aus seiner eigenen Tasche, aber da ist ja keine Organisation in dem Sinne dahinter. Oder gibt's viel im Core Team, die machen das halt ja nebenbei in Freizeit. Was jetzt nicht zwingend schlecht ist, aber was halt zeigt, okay, das wäre halt bei bei Voice Zero, was ja unabhängig vom Viewökosystem ist und gedacht ist, so halt nicht ganz möglich. Ja. Ich glaub, von dem Punkt tatsächlich noch mal eine ein wichtiger eine wichtige Bemerkung, nämlich das Thema Governance, ja. Aber jetzt kann man sagen, okay, wird jetzt viel mit an der assoziiert, Rolldown o x-C und wenn man auf die Website guckt, man hat noch V-Test mit darunter. Testing haben wir gar nicht so viel besprochen, ist aber genau mit dazu. Mhm. Und zwar, dass die Governance, was die Projekte angeht, Rolldown und OXE sind die 2 Kernprojekte, wo wo Void Zero eigentlich die Richtung steuert sozusagen. Weed selber zum Beispiel ist, das ist immer ganz schön zu erwähnen, 'n Projekt, wo Firmen, also Leute beteiligt sind, die von unterschiedlichem Hintergrund firmentechnisch sind. Also wie gesagt, klar, Evan, das ist eine Firma, Saphi, ist auch bei uns bei Void Zero mit dabei. Hiroshi genauso sind 2 Container. Dann haben wir aber viele, es gab zum Beispiel 'n Container Byorren, der wurde von Astro für eine Zeit lang geheiert. Patak eigentlich der Hauptminainer mit, der ist bei Steckblitz. Mhm. Anthony Fu, der ist ja auch gefühlt überall mit dabei. Der ist bei, also der Firma, die der oder der Creator von, ja, ins Leben gerufen hat. Und da ist es eigentlich ganz nett, dass man eben sieht, es geht's nicht die Interessen 1 einzelner Firma. Das wäre auch in dem Sinne gefährlich, ne. Sondern hier sieht man halt, okay, das ist 'n Joint Effort plus natürlich im Ökosystem die ganzen Projekte, die dahinterstehen, die ganzen Frameworks, die ganzen Tools, so was wie Playright und Storybook und so weiter und so weiter. Mhm. Also auch da ist es noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, es geht halt nicht darum, dass jetzt Void Zero die ganze Welt kontrolliert oder die ganze Web der Welt. Aber wir können halt, dadurch, dass wir zum Beispiel dazu Safi und Hiroshi auf der Payroll haben, dass wir Wladimir, den Hauptminainer von V-Test Vollzeit mit dabeihaben und so weiter. Damit die Möglichkeit natürlich da Entwicklungen voranzutreiben und auch sicherzustellen, dass das Ganze ja kontinuierlich gute Features bekommt, bugfix ist und auch da weitergeht. Es ist auch eine Art und Weise der Open Source Sustainability. Mhm. Und dazu das auch noch, wollt ich mir eigentlich fürn Pick aufheben, aber ich hatte ich hatte 2 im im Kopf. Nice. Es gibt ja von Sentry 'n Open Source Pledge. Wer ihr noch nicht kennt, Firmen können also sagen, okay, für jeden Employe gebe ich im Jahr eine bestimmte Summe, ich glaub, 2000 Dollar oder so was an Open Source. Und dann kannst Du entsprechend da gelistet werden. Das Ganze kannst Du reporten und da sind wir bei bei uns wieder auch mit dabei. Das heißt, unabhängig für Leuten, die wir auf der Payroll haben, sponsern wir also auch noch mal entsprechende Leute. Genau, pro Entwickler ist wichtig, nicht nur pro Employe, sondern es pro Entwickler heißt, wenn ihr nur 2 Entwickler habt, ist das recht günstig. Da kann man damit gelistet werden, ist nicht nur eine nette Möglichkeit, für Open Source zurückzugeben, sondern auch zu zeigen, dass man in der Firma natürlich das Ganze in 'ner Art und Weise fördert. Genau. Und das Logo kommt dann auch auf den Times Square. Das ist kann ich, ich lege auch noch mal senden. Das ist immer so in gewissen Abständen, ich glaub jedes halbe Jahr, die Leute, die 'n Open Source Platz joinen, da gibt's dann auf der so, das war auch ganz cool, das zu sehen. Ja. Sehr cool. Dann Hast Du noch Fragen, Sibi? Ich hab keine Fragen mehr. Dann mach ich jetzt mal den Jan und frag seine typische Frage. Alex, haben wir dich irgendwas gefragt oder nicht gefragt, wo Du dachtest, oh, darüber möcht ich aber unbedingt sprechen. Das fehlt uns jetzt noch. Du hast eben schon Testing angesprochen. Da noch drüber sprechen, aber ansonsten, was auch immer Du noch loswerden willst, gerne. Ja, erst mal gute Frage als auch Podcast Host appreciate ich das immer sehr. Auch wenns die meisten sagen, nö, eigentlich haben wir alles besprochen. Ich denk auch im Großen und Ganzen passt das. Ich glaub, das Wichtigste auch da noch mal, ne, es geht jeder jedes Framework ist da mit drin, testet gern mal oder wenn ihr euch das weit, weit in der Zukunft anhört, testet sich die voll Bundle Mount, wenn ihr schon raus ist. Mhm. Und das Wichtigste, wenn ihr irgendwelche Fragen habt, dann scheut euch nicht zu posten, so sei's irgendwie auf Socials, schick mir, was weiß ich, auch eine E-Mail, das ist auch in Ordnung. Also nur zu damit, ne. Und eine letzte Bitte, es gibt eine, nennt sich, also Performance Wins. Da tragen Leute dann einen, so okay, ich hab meine Applikation, entweder werden die Open Source noch besser, aber wie schnell ist sie denn geworden? Wenn ihr das Ganze nutzt und euch da verewigen wollt, immer her damit. Und ansonsten kommt gerne in die Discord, den oder auch die Lead Discord. Wenn ihr irgendwie Feedback braucht, sagt, hey, das ist irgendwie nicht ganz schnell wie erwartet, könnt ihr mir helfen. So, wir sind da eigentlich in der Regel immer mit dabei und stehen mit Rat und Tat zur Seite. Cool. Die Links werden wir auf jeden Fall auch noch in die Shownotes packen. Und was für Links wir da auch reinpacken, sind die. Und da lass mal den Jingle laufen, dann geht's ab. Alex, Du hast schon eben dein deine erste Möglichkeit für den Pick genannt. Willst Du die zweite direkt aufnen? Ja, klar, gerne. Genau, ich hab son bisschen 2 reingesneakt. Das kann mal passieren, hab ich gehört. Mein zweiter Pick ist doch deutlich technischer fokussiert. Und zwar, es ist Knip KNIP, Knip dot dev. Logo hat sone Schere und genau darum geht's. Wir wollen was loswerden, wollen was abschneiden, nämlich all die ungenutzten Dependencies, die ungenutzten Exports und. Das kann nämlich knapp machen in auch wieder ne, Framework knostistische Plugins, die automatisch eingesetzt werden, egal, was man nutzt von irgendwie. Wenn ich ESLINN nutze, dann wird natürlich die ESLINNConfig ignoriert und dann wird geguckt, was sind's denn da, was steht da drinne Frameworkbasiert und so weiter. Ist eine sehr gute Möglichkeit, nicht nur einmalig, sondern auch gerne in CI sicherzustellen, dass ihr keine ungenutzten Dependencies mehr habt. Und ja, ist ein sehr, sehr cooles Projekt, wird fast überall mittlerweile genutzt, tatsächlich auch in Repositories wie Rolldown und auch selber. Deswegen ja, Knip, eine sehr, sehr gute Option, denke ich. Guckt euch das gern mal an. Cool. Genau. Und ansonsten, wenn irgendwas nicht klappt, contributed, die Plug ins sind einfach zu stellen. Ich hatte vor 'ner Woche oder so was auch erst contributed. Das ist richtig smooven. Sehr geil, Knip. Konnte mir nix. Kannte ich auch nicht. Cebi, was hast Du mitgebracht? Oh mein, ist ein Proposal für Random Functions. Zuerst Stage 1, aber ich find Random Function in Javascript, das lohnt sich, dass man da mal 'n bisschen das game absteppt. Irgendwie immer ständig irgendwie sone Shuffle Function schreiben oder irgendwie Krempiskram. Ja. Und vor allem vor allem auch, dass man's vielleicht irgendwann mal siegen kann. Okay. Für Tests und so. Ah, gibt's auch 'n Proposit, ne? Ist das damit drin? Nee, das ist 'n anderes, ja. Ja. Mhm. Aber bin ich auf jeden Fall Feuer und Flamme. Freu ich mich sehr, wenn das kenntlich kommt. Da hab ich eine Anekdote zu tatsächlich. Die muss ich ganz kurz loswerden. Oh Gott. Tatsächlich in 2015 ging mir das auch schon so sehr auf den Sack. Dann hab ich in die E-Mail-Liste vom TC Viertel hinein da geschrieben, sagt hier, sieht's 'n aus? Wollen wir nicht mal irgendwie sone random Shaffe Funktion für Array erstellen? Kam leider in die Antwort. Aber Sind 10 Jahre später? 10 Jahre später. Also ich ich habe mich mit dem mit paar Leuten vom T-C-Pilot unterhalten, die waren nicht auch auf der Konferenz und hab gemeint, hey, wie sieht's 'n aus, Use Case, dies das? Und ja, Sachen passieren. Deswegen es es ist megaspannend. Und es gibt zwar die Eric schaffen funktioniert immer noch nicht, auch in den Proposal, glaub ich, nicht, aber mal gucken. Es wurde auf jeden Fall angeraten, dann zu schauen, ob's da vielleicht noch neben dem Platz gibt, schon mal zu schauen, was möglich ist. Ja. Ich hab mich jedenfalls sehr gefreut. Ja, ich find's generell, also sind grad einige Proposals am Start, die ich spannend finde. Der Proposal ist tatsächlich eine Staffel für random. Ich hab auch keine Ahnung, ja. Fair. Dann heißt Du nicht Array Punkt to Shoveled oder Nee, es ist Random Punkt Shovel und da gibt's das Array. Ah, genau, das macht Sinn. Ja. Ja, geil, sehr schön. Endlich, es hat nur 10 Jahre bis Stage 1, das ist übertrieben, gedauert. Aber ich stimmen da gerad und noch dir Sebi voll zu. Es passiert superviel. Mhm. Und das ist echt schön, dass nicht irgendwie früher so es passiert langsam und gemächlich war's. Mhm. Ja, super zu sehen. Finde ich auch. Irgendwas 'n bisschen. Und erinnert mich grade, wenn Du sagst so, der Scope vor 10 Jahren son bisschen wie dieses Temporal. Ja. So, wo man irgendwie schon seit 100 Jahren die Schmerzen spürt von der Date API. Da gibt's auch noch 'n geilen Funfact zu. Mozilla, also Firefox hat sich ja geschippt mittlerweile als erster Browser. Und das Krasse war, die Implementierung kam nicht von 'nem Mozilla Mitarbeiter, sondern von 'nem random Contribut, der es einfach allein in in Firefox reingebracht hat. Oh krass. Das, ich glaub André heißt mit Vornamen. Das war sone Sache, glaubt man manchmal nicht. Ja. Aber vielleicht stößt das jetzt was an. Also es ist cool, hören das mal. Der war vielleicht maximal frustriert. Vermutlich. Ich mach's jetzt einfach. Ja. André Pagulli. Es ist auch wild. Es steht auch in dem Blogpost dazu drin, wo Du sagst hast, okay, ja, mein einziger. Bild, wild. Open Source ist was Schönes. Ist was Schönes. Ich hab auch noch was mitgebracht. Und zwar haben wir heute viel über Technologie gesprochen, die eher low levelig ist. Und dazu hab ich mal ein sehr cooles GitHub Repository gefunden, das heißt. Und da ist 'n eine ganze Sammlung von Links, die zu irgendwelchen Tutorials oder Artikeln führen, wo man eben bestimmte Dinge selber nachbaut von 0, von sozusagen. Also da ist zum Beispiel dabei, ein großes Ding ist immer. Und ich find es grade cool, auch jetzt in der Welt von AI, wo man, ich glaub, viele Endprodukte vielleicht nicht mehr selber baut oder mehr von der AI machen lässt, ist es trotzdem immer cool, auch mal Selbsthand anzulegen und Dinge von Grund auf zu verstehen. Und ich glaube, wenn man so was mal baut, dann lernt man da sehr viel. Und ja, diese Liste ist superlang, superspannend. Was noch fehlt, ist Billjo Own Bandler. Ja. Da kommen vielleicht eine Blogpost so. Auch generell, wie son Bandler funktioniert, was die Anatomie ist. Warum, wieso, weshalb. Ja, alles auf der endlosen Liste. Ja. Und es gibt es gibt viel zu tun. Ja. Und viele coole Ideen. Aber genau, da kann man mal reinschnuppern, mal was nachbauen. Ich glaube, das kann Spaß machen und man lernt halt superviel. Mega wichtig. Ich finde so grade das Foundational, also die die Grundlagen oder so was wie wie funktioniert das unter der Haube? Ich glaub, es hat ganz viele so mit zum Programmieren gebracht, so zum Beispiel, okay, ich nutze dieses Programm. Wie könnte ich so was denn selber machen oder warum wie funktioniert das? Das ist halt megacool. Und vor allem so dieser Spagat zwischen ich nutze etwas versus ich baue an was selber. Mhm. Bei Frameworks zum Beispiel, noch mal auf die technische Ebene zurückzukommen, zu sagen, ich nutze 'n React oder 'n Angulares Welt versus, ich baue daran 2 verschiedene Welten. Deswegen ist sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr cooler Pick. Ja, das ist auch das, was man macht, wenn man generell als Kontribute einsteigt in Open Source Software. Man geht halt eine Stufe tiefer irgendwie, ne? Ja. Ich mein, wahrscheinlich, wenn man wirklich komplett anfängt zu sagen, okay, irgendwie Modul zu irgendwas, wo man sagt, ich hab hab zumindest noch son bisschen Beziehung dazu und ist nicht, keine Ahnung, hier, ich die Bagge Realität und da sind Proxys und da muss ich was tracken und aber auch da, ne Step by Step. Und auch was, was ich dann ganz gern zu sagen, sind auch Dokumentationen, sind ist ist Content genauso. Und Tests sind auch immer super. Das ist das ist halt alles richtig viel wert. Deswegen scheut euch da nicht und und tut es. Genau. Cooler Aufruf. Das ist doch ein schönes Schlusswort. Vielen Dank Alex, dass Du da warst, dass Du Sehr gerne. Auch alle Einblicke gegeben hast in Rolldown, OXC, Wide Zero. Ich finde es superspannend, in welche Richtung ihr da geht. Auch Sebi, vielen Dank, dass Du dabei warst und dieses Thema spannend fandest und deswegen Lust hat, es mal wieder im Podcast zu sein. Hat mir sehr viel Spaß gemacht. Und danke dir, Gareth auch. Großartig, die Modelle Gerne. Und danke euch. Sehr gerne. Ankündigungen, machen wir nicht den. Das hab ich schon gelernt. Deswegen sag ich einfach vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis dann. Tschüs. Tschau, 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive bei der Programmierbar. Ich bin hier im hybriden Studio und hab 2 Leute mit mir hier sitzen, auf die ich mich beide sehr freue. Und zwar nämlich einmal sitzt endlich mal wieder der Seebe neben mir.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hi, Garelt. Hallo.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich freu\n\nSpeaker 0: mich auch. Ja, ist 'n cooles Thema auch heute. Und für dieses Thema haben wir uns den Alexander Lichter eingeladen. Hallo Alex.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hallo Sevi, hallo Garel. Schön, dass ich wieder dabei sein kann zum dritten Mal jetzt, ne, die dritte Episode. Ja, die dritte\n\nSpeaker 0: Episode, die letzten 2 waren über Naxt. Heute geht's nicht Naxt, sondern was anderes.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nicht hauptsächlich zumindest, ne? Son bisschen reingesnekt wird das vielleicht gehört. Ja. Aber genau, richtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: ja auch alles 'n bisschen miteinander verbunden.\n\nSpeaker 2: So ist es.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau. Du warst schon zweimal da, viele kennen dich bestimmt, aber für die Leute, die dich nicht kennen, stell ich's dir noch einmal ganz kurz vor. Alex ist eine bekannte Stimme und Gesicht in der Web und vor allen Dingen der Viewwelt. Und das liegt unter anderem daran, dass er als Kom Container schon viel bei beigetragen hat, aber auch generell viel zu Open Source Software contributed, unter anderem eben auch View. Aber Du bist auch Host von, ein Podcast, der sich alle möglichen View Themen dreht.\n\nUnd auch auf vielen Konferenzen weltweit sprichst Du über, über Webthemen, über View. Da sieht man dich auch häufiger. Und seit Kurzem bist Du auch als Developer Relations bei Void Zero aktiv. Da bin ich auch sehr gespannt, was Du heute erzählst. Und neben diesen ganzen Dingen, die ich jetzt schon genannt hab, bist Du auch noch irgendwie Consultant und machst Workshops.\n\nWie viel Zeit hast Du dafür überhaupt noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Es ist es klingt alles recht viel, ist auch alles absolut richtig. Natürlich, seitdem ich bei Boyd Zero bin, also jetzt ungefähr so zweieinhalb, wahrscheinlich mit der Episode rauskommt, so 3 Monate, weniger Zeit für Consultants hier auf jeden Fall, weniger Zeit für Beratung. Dadurch, dass, wie Du schon gesagt hast, so okay, viel Zeit geht natürlich für meinen Teilzeit Devral Job bei Boyd Zero sind 3 Tage die Woche drauf Und die anderen 2 Tage ist dann ja, Open Source will man trotzdem noch contributen. Man ist mal auf Konferenzen, wobei es zum Teil natürlich auch Arbeitszeit ist.\n\nYoutube Channel hab ich auch noch, wo ich jede Woche 'n Video über View Next und auch Webthemen mitreeleße. Genau, der Podcast, ja, da bleibt da nicht mehr so viel Zeit, aber es geht noch alles. Es es passt noch auch Gott sei Dank, weil ich meine Videos nicht selber editieren muss, genauso mit dem Podcast. Das ist ganz hilfreich, wenn man jemanden hat, der es einem abnimmt und man dann Zeit hat, weiter Content zu caten oder zu contributen oder, oder, oder.\n\nSpeaker 0: Macht das dein Co Host, der Michel Thiessen oder\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, tatsächlich. Wir haben 'n Detektanton Editor für seine Autorin, genau, Nikki macht das für uns und macht's aber auch gleich alles so an der Hand, sowohl meinen Youtube Channel als auch die Podcasts, als auch 'n bisschen was für Void Zero. Mhm. Da haben wir jemanden, der mit dem technischen Verständnis ganz gut dabei ist. Und ist sonst son bisschen als als Editor, jeder kann ja theoretisch Podcasts so über Allgemeines editieren, aber manchmal ist dann ganz gut okay, man versteht zumindest den Zusammenhang im Gespräch oder bei 'nem Tutorial so, ja okay, wo muss ich jetzt reinzoomen, wo ist der Fokus?\n\nDa da haben wir auf jeden Fall jemanden gut mit am Start.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ist sehr wertvoll. Bei uns ist das der Carlo auch Shoutout an Carlo.\n\nSpeaker 2: Grüße ihn raus, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Leute sind machen viel und hören viel und sind aber sehr im Hintergrund.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist so die ja, ich sag mal, der undankbarste Job so in 'ner Art und Weise. Wenn alles klappt, ist so, ja, alles cool. Und wenn was nicht denkt, denkst Du so, ah ja, hätte man ja besser machen können. Das ist so bisschen wie der der MC auf Konferenzen, ist halt ähnlich so. Ja, fühl ich mal auf jeden Fall.\n\nGroße Shoutdown an alle Leute, die hinter den den Podcasts und Channels und Co sitzen, das Ganze editieren und produzieren. Absolut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wir haben jetzt schon viele irgendwie Buzzwords gehört mit und Vide Zero, aber es geht heute was anderes. Und zwar möchten wir über sprechen. Und vielleicht erst mal, Alex, kannst Du uns mal sagen, was ist über und wie bist Du da beteiligst?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Wir fangen am besten mal ganz, also ich such mal bisschen raus, so mäßig, dann können wir in die die Details reingehen. Und zwar, wenn man jetzt in 1 modernen Webeentwicklungswelt anfängt, sagt, okay, ich lern 'n bisschen JavaScript, HTML, CSS. Klar, man startet vielleicht, okay, ich hab 'n HTML Dokument, ich kann da bisschen JavaScript reinschreiben. Aber sobald man irgend 'n Framework benutzt, tatsächlich bis auf View, weil das kann man auch genauso noch benutzen, sagen, ich lad das über son Skript Tag rein, einfach als CDN und kann dann reinstarten, wie man's früher mit JQUERY gemacht hat und natürlich weniger Kilobyte und mehr orientiert.\n\nAber ansonsten natürlich, wenn man irgendwas baut, auch 'n View geht das mit 10 Gefile Komponenten, dann irgendwie reactangulas wählt. Man hat eigentlich immer eine Art Bild Step, weil natürlich man will dann das JSX oder die Komponenten oder das Typescript ja dann irgendwie in Javacript kommentieren. Und da wird das natürlich, man durchläuft einige Schritte. Man will vielleicht so Sachen machen, wie welche Browser mich supporten? Möchte ich Sachen umtransformieren?\n\nUnd da ist eigentlich alles der Banner für zuständig. Oder in anderen Sprachen ist so, ja, der Compiler son Rust oder ze oder so, sag ich, okay, ich transformier das von der eigentlichen Sprache in Maschinencode und hier ist halt von der eigentlichen Sprache wie type Skript, Viewsing a File Components, Svelt und so weiter und so weiter insgesamt zu Javascript, weil der Browser kann ja kein type Skript. Genau. Und ich glaub, da kann man ganz gut einsteigen, so der Bundler hat irgendwie ganz viele Aufgaben und in der Regel im besten Fall nehmen es die Leute gar nicht so wahr. Die haben dann ihr Tool, in der Regel Veed oder früher noch Webpack einige Nutzer, vielleicht auch RSPacks sind so die die beliebten Tools, vielleicht auch Parcel hier und da, die die Build Tools, die dann im im Hintergrund 'n Band da laufen haben, der das Ganze dann macht, sowohl zur Dev- als auch zur Produktionszeit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Du hast ja grad schon gesagt, okay, es gibt schon viele Buntler. Was macht jetzt oder was unterscheidet Rollan? Also warum habt ihr den entwickelt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, auch da, ich versuch mal 'n bisschen rauszuzoomen, weil wenn man jetzt sich so die moderne Webenwicklungslandschaft anguckt, dann hat man eigentlich für jedes moderne Framework außer für NextJRS, das ist son bisschen der Outlier, ein Bild Tool, nämlich Veed. Das hat sich in den letzten Jahren, so letzten Jahren, das ist schon 'n paar mehr Jahre her, eigentlich sehr populär gesteigert. Eigentlich nutzt jeder wie, das dauert Leute of Next Jazz, weil bei Russell, die setzen auf Webpack und Turbopack. Wenn das dann auch endlich ist, in Dev läuft es mittlerweile, aber ich glaub, 3, 4 Tests fehlen noch. Es gibt sone Seite dot com, die das ganz gut anzeigt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist der ist das der Successor von\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Ist auch von Tobias, also von dem eigentlich mit der von von Wepper gebaut. Da war die Idee son bisschen das, was, ich sag mal, rodern, aber auch so was wie 'n RS Pack ist, ist sagen, okay, wir bauen das in 'ner anderen Sprache, weil schneller und es soll halt ganz viel Sachen können und im Idealfall auch eine öffentliche API haben. Das also die öffentliche API gibt's noch nicht und wie gesagt, es fehlen halt auch noch für NextJS selber. Das ist aber noch mal eine andere Geschichte.\n\nLetztendlich kommen wir zum Punkt zurück. Eigentlich nutzt fast jeder Veat, das ist son bisschen der ja die Infrastruktur der modernen Webentwicklung. Und Veat an sich nutzt im Hintergrund 2 unterschiedliche Bundler. Das liegt daran, dass ja, wenn man das noch kennt irgendwie früher von Webhack, es hat alles 'n bisschen gedauert, der Dev Server wird gestartet, dann wartet man vielleicht im besten Fall 30 Sekunden, ansonsten 'n paar Minuten, bis alles läuft. Liegt daran, dass Webhack selber erst mal sagt, okay, für, ich muss keine Optimierung machen, keine, aber ich muss trotzdem alles wandeln, zu sagen, okay, so was wie zu JavaScript oder coffee Skript machst Du damals noch oder parkt zu HTML und so weiter.\n\nUnd Veed, Evan, der auch Ersteller von View hat Veed entwickelt, weil er gedacht hat, okay, so die Developer Experience vom View Seal Eye und vom von allem View Entwickler ist ja okay, aber könnte besser gehen. Und hat dann gemerkt, okay, die der Ansatz zu sagen, ich mach das andersrum. Ich habe sonen Entry File und alles Weitere regel ich mit dynamischen Imports. Also ich sag effektiv, ich lad nicht alles vorab, sondern ich mach das alles komplett dynamisch. Geht schnell, die Browser hat mittlerweile Kompatibilität dafür.\n\nUnd das ist auch immer sone Frage, ne, warum hat man's früher nicht gemacht? Weil Kompatibilität den Browser zum Beispiel gefehlt hat. Und es gab auch andere Tools, WMR, Snowpack, die so in die Richtung ging. Ja, und Vita hat sich da son bisschen durchgesetzt. Und damit ist der Dev Server halt superschnell, weil's eben kein gebandelter Dev Server ist, sondern es ist mehr oder weniger anbandelt.\n\nUnd dafür wird Airsbild genutzt, basiert auf Go, zum Beispiel gewisse Dependencies zu prewandeln oder type zu stripmen, also das Nötigste zu machen, die Dependencies bereitzustellen. Aber dann ist halt wirklich ein Request pro Dependency im Dev Server. Und das geht halt recht schnell, weil gut, man muss halt keine großen CPU Zyklen drauf verwenden. Man lädt das einfach nur runter, da es alles lokal ist, geht es ganz gut. Mhm.\n\nUnd dann in Produktion, wenn man das Ganze wirklich bauen möchte, wird roll up genutzt. Bisschen Verwirrung, Rollup, Rolldown, ne. Sieht auch, wo der Name son bisschen herkommt. Hat auch den einfachen Grund, also IS Bild ist, ich sag mal, zum Teil, aber zum Teil auch einfach 'n sehr kleinen Scope. Rollup kann 'n bisschen besser sagen, okay, ich möcht zum Beispiel meine Chunks etwas anders anlegen, ist aber auch sehr limitiert, hat aber auch 'n großes Plug in Ecosystem.\n\nSo AS Bild hat nur sehr begrenzt Plugins, aber Rollup für alles mögliche Plugins. Die API ist sehr schön, ist 'n sehr freundliches Ökosystem, auch im Vergleich zu anderen Bundler wie Webhack. Deswegen wurde das Ganze da für genutzt, Sachen einfach zu vereinfachen. Und ist auch sehr gut, was so Optimierung angeht, Dead Code Elimination und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das View in System ist auch davon inspiriert, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wie Genau, auch das.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auch richtig.\n\nSpeaker 2: Yes, richtig, richtig. Und Du musst ja im Endeffekt, wenn Du 'n wie Plug in schreibst, im Hintergrund ja auch Rollup und DS Bild son bisschen Ja. Ich sag mal, beides beides nutzen, je nachdem, ob Du was für Dev brauchst oder nicht. Aber genau ist auf jeden Fall davon inspiriert und ist die API. Und da gibt's noch Plug in, das ist eigentlich auch eine ganz schöne Sache, wo die Idee ist son bisschen das J-Query für die Bundler.\n\nAlso ich schreibe ein Plug in und das läuft dann in von irgendwie Webhack bis bis Rolldown. Das ist eigentlich auch 'n ganz netter Approach. Gibt's natürlich an den Sachen, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Hook, die gibt's nur 'n zum Beispiel. Aber das ist eine Möglichkeit, Plug ins zu schreiben, die halt überlaufen. Das nur als als Einschub.\n\nKann man's auf jeden Fall, wenn man als Plug in Autor sich das Ganze anschauen möchte. Ist recht, recht nützlich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und Veed nutzt eben diese 2 Bander. Ja, und dann gibt's natürlich so ein Problem oder mehrere Probleme, weil ist erst mal sehr cool, Viet ist irgendwann im Enterprise angekommen. Das dauert ja immer son kleines bisschen. Und dann hat man aber gemerkt, dass zum einen, ja gut, die Bild dauern natürlich recht lang dann irgendwann, grade wenn irgendwie son Shopify dann mal Sachen baut. Mhm.\n\nUnd auf der anderen Seite der Dev Server, der anbandelt Mode sozusagen. Der hat 'n bisschen Probleme, wenn Du halt nicht nur irgendwie 10 oder 100, sondern vielleicht so 1000 bis 10000 Probanden und Dependencies hast, weil dann hast Du wirklich ein Profile und das ist halt bei Enterprise schon ja, dann doch einiges. Plus wenn Du noch sagst, Du hast irgendwie 'n Proxy, so Corporate World, ne, selbst wenn es irgendwie lokal läuft, dann geht jeder da durch und dann ist der Dev Server Start-up einfach, ja, es dauert. Produktionsbild kein Problem, aber Du willst ja auch Features shampoo was bauen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir sind genau, wir sind bei, ich glaub, 360 falls ungefähr. Wir haben schon so 10 Sekunden\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Erste Start up Plan. Haben Erster natürlich superschnell, Ja. Aber so einmal.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, richtig. Und das ist halt 'n Problem. Und dann natürlich das andere, die Inkonsisten zwischen und wenn Du natürlich 2 unterschiedliche Tool benutzt, ist das schwierig. Mhm. Und genau.\n\nEin eine Möglichkeit, das zu vermeiden, ist natürlich zu sagen, man nutzt einen Bandler. Und jetzt könnte man sagen, okay, warum kontribitiert man nicht einfach zu Roll-up oder zu S-Belt und macht das Ganze? Weil ist ja alles Open Source und das ist auf jeden Fall eine Möglichkeit. Ist auch 'n guter Punkt, dass Roll-up eben genau das nicht ist. Ist nicht einfach wir neben, sorry, Rolldown das nicht ist.\n\nWir nehmen nämlich einfach Roll-up und Rustefinders, ja. Rolldown in Rust beschrieben und nimmt aber son bisschen das Beste der vorherigen Tools mit. Also sowohl von eher das Bild, was so Verhalten und Co angeht, auch natürlich die Schnelligkeit, von Roll-up, also da die API, das Plug in Ökosystem und sogar Webhack, was so Chunk Optimierung angeht. Weil Webhack kann das richtig, richtig gut. Da gibt's dieses Feature, zu sagen, okay, ich möchte meine Chunks in bestimmten Gruppen haben.\n\nIch kann da Limits festsetzen. Das ist eigentlich recht, recht schön. Mhm. Genau, und deswegen war dann die Idee zu sagen, gut, okay, Rowdown, wir schreiben das Ganze in Rust, damit ist es sehr schnell. Und das Ziel ist zu sagen, wir haben einen Bundler, wie gesagt, das Beste aus allen Welten der vorherigen existierenden Bundler verbindet.\n\nSchneller ist als alles aufm Markt, ist auch 'n RS Pack, was zum Beispiel in in geschrieben ist. Da ist Road dann so dreimal schneller ungefähr, ne. 2 bis 4, je nachdem welche Benchmarks, deswegen so ungefähr 3. Kann auch gern noch mal die Benchmarks verlinken, wenn's sich mal interessiert. Sind die werde aber freuen, sich aber oh, so schnell, ja.\n\nAuf jeden Fall. Für alles eine eine Gitterbrebo. Ist alles öffentlich. Kann man auch gern selber laufen lassen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und dann war die okay, man man unified den Banner. ES Bild hat halt verschiedene Verhaltensweisen, die übernommen werden und verschiedene Features, so was wie ich kann Sachen incheckten und definen. Roll-up, wie gesagt, alle Plugins sollen idealerweise supportet werden oder man braucht sie vielleicht nicht mehr, weil sie schon in Rolldown mit drin sind. Das ist aber das Ziel, wenn man irgendwann sagt, okay, da kommen wir so zum, ne, übergeordneten Ziel, der Rolldown soll irgend eine Standardbander von werden. Die Leute wollen ja nicht alle ihre Projekte migrieren, sondern idealerweise irgendwann die Media Version wird gebamt und fertig, es geht.\n\nDas das wär halt so ganz schön. Und ja, da ist man entsprechend dran, das zu entwickeln. Rolldown ist aktuell 'n Beta 11, sowas in Richtung 1 Punkt 0. Punkt 0, Beta 11. Und es gibt sogar schon, das ist jetzt die große Neuerung vor 'n paar Tagen zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme gewesen, eine Technical Preview von Veed mit Rolldown.\n\nNennt sich Rolldown Veed ist 'n Paket. Es gibt 'n sehr einfaches Migration Guide, effektiv einfach nur Alliascen oder über Package override, wenn man dann noch unter hat, die die mit nutzen. Und dann kann man's austesten. Und tatsächlich die Bild Speed improvements, die sind so Faktor drei- bis sechzehnfach, ne, nicht Prozent. Also das ist schon recht schnell.\n\nWir hatten einige Tests mit Early Adoptern, also beispielsweise GitLab hat auf, also Open Source gibt's 'n Merch Request, das Ganze mal ausprobiert. Die haben jetzt keine riesigen Speed improvements, weil die recht kleine Bilds haben, aber bis zu hundertmal weniger Memory Consion. Das ist halt auch echt echt eine Nummer. Wo sagen, ja, okay, Speed ist ganz nett, aber auf einmal so CI Kosten, wir brauchen kleinere Maschinen. Und ansonsten so als bekannte Open Source Applikationen auf direct basierte, so sechzehnfach schnellere Bildes.\n\nDas ist halt ganz nett.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und diese Memory Optimization, die kam einfach durch Rust. Also Rust ist da so viel effizienter als Go oder was?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist ja effizienter als JavaScript. Rollup ist ja ja JavaScript basieren und da geht's wirklich den den Bild. Also grade aktuell, der aktuelle Stand von, ist noch mal ganz gut, dass Du's ansprichst. Mhm. Da ist wirklich Optimierung für den den Bild Server, also für ich bilde.\n\nOkay. Der Dev Server ist weiterhin erst mal, aber später kann man nachher noch 'n bisschen ausführen, möchten wir natürlich auch sonen wieder einführen, eben diese Probleme, die Enterprise und Größeapplikation hat, mit einzuschränken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber man kann das dann einstellen, was man im Dev Server haben will, ob man's wandeln will oder\n\nSpeaker 2: Jein, also erst mal wird das so sein, genau. Effektiv, wir sind aktuell so in der Phase 1, wo wir sagen, es gibt dieses Technical Technical Preview von Roll on Bed, Leute können das austesten. Idealerweise ist einfach nur 'n Drop and Replacement und.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn's Probleme gibt, raste gerne. Also wir haben schon einiges ein Feedback erhalten. Leute sind echt schnell, was das Fixen angeht. Das ist auch ganz schön, wenn man da Leute hat, die da Vollzeit dran sitzen. Mhm.\n\nIst halt ein großer Vorteil, dass wir das bei Volicero ermöglichen können, dass halt Leute Vollzeit an dem Bundler und auch den darunter linken Twist sitzen. Ja. Und dann gibt's so Phase 2, das sind so, ist eigentlich so Phase 1 Punkt 5 und 2. Der soll als Opt in erst mal verfügbar sein, auch da, das zu stabilisieren, zu testen, zu gucken. Da kann man dann auch wählen.\n\nUnd dann irgendwann, wenn sich stabil ist, ohne den Full Bundle Mode erst mal oder auch wenn der stabil ist zuerst, aber wahrscheinlich erst mal ohne, dann wird das Ganze in selber reingegeben. Zu sagen, okay, in 7 steht aktuell in Startlöchern. In Feed 8 wird es dann so zumindest das Ziel, ne, sondern irgend 'ner weiteren Majorversion nicht 7 auf jeden Fall, das ist 'n bisschen zu kurz. Wenn das alles gut getestet ist, keine Probleme und weitere Features implementiert sind, dann kann das losgehen. Vor allem Optimierung, ne.\n\nFeature Complete ist es noch nicht komplett, ne, aber ist man dabei? Es gibt so ein, 2 Sachen, grade so für Framework und Plug in Autoren, die vielleicht noch nicht implementiert sind. Das hält einen in der Regel keinen vom Testen ab. Genau und dann irgendwann Phase 3 wird dann der Punkt sein, wo auch der Full Bundle Mode als Default ist und man gar keinen mehr hat. Das liegt daran, dass son bisschen auch da wieder das Ziel ist Best of Boefords.\n\nFür kleine und mittlere Applikationen soll es trotzdem superschnell sein, ja, weil rasant basiert und optimiert. Heißt, wenn ich nur keine Ahnung paar Fires hab, dann lässt sich das ganz gut durchlaufen. Dann ist es egal, ob ich das anbandelt hab oder nicht. Die Start Time soll richtig, richtig schnell sein. Und wenn ich das Ganze aber in größeren Applikationen hab, dann hilft halt das Bundle oder der full Bundle Mode einfach zu sagen, ich hab 'n deutlich schnelleren Dev Server.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, viele Informationen jetzt. Ja. Es\n\nSpeaker 0: ja, es ist es ist aber auch 'n großes Ding, was ihr macht. Also ihr habt euch ja auch echt 'n großes Ziel gesetzt, das Beste aus verschiedenen Welten einzubringen. Und ich frag mich auch so in der Entwicklung von Rolldown, war das schwer, das alles mit reinzubringen? Oder ist es dadurch, dass es schon irgendwo existiert, relativ straight forward, das dann in ein Produkt, in eine Library zu gießen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also es ist recht schwierig. Auch da Disclaimer, ne, ich schreib selber jetzt nicht wirklich viel. Ich kontribute dich zur Rolldown oder den Tools darunter im Sinne von, ne, Hardcore Optimierung. Da gibt's viele Leute in unserem Team, die da richtig gut drin sind. Ich bleib dann eher vielleicht zu den Plug ins, die noch performancemäßig zu verbessern im Zusammenhang mit Rohdown, können wir auch noch nachher drüber quatschen oder so was wie 'n 'n paar kleine Änderungen, Verbesserung, Integration.\n\nAber ja, ist natürlich superschwierig, wenn man sagt, ich möchte so das Beste aus allen Welten und dann gibt's vielleicht Tools, die dann unterschiedliche Meinungen und Auffassung haben, ne. An welchen Tools orientiert man sich dann letztendlich? Und dann ist natürlich auch der Punkt so den Overhead zwischen, ich hab jetzt eine Sprache, Rust, da muss ich dann ganz viele Codemanipulationen machen. Ich muss aus dem Code einen Abstract Syntext tree erstellen, ne, also die technische oder die schematische Aufarbeitung des Codes nicht einfach als String, sondern wirklich als Baum entsprechend mit welche Notes gibt's, wie sehen die aus? Mhm.\n\nJa, das ist natürlich nicht ohne. Deswegen ist es auch super, wenn Leute das aktuell testen, sagen, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja Probleme oder irgendwas klappt nicht. Und natürlich versuchen wir auch da nicht nur Performance aktuell, ist ist natürlich super, so Sechzehnfach ist superschön. Da kommen natürlich noch deutlich mehr, sowohl builtime mäßig als auch einige Sachen, wo zum Beispiel Rollup richtig gut drin ist, ist, also Treeshaking. Mhm.\n\nZu sagen, ich hab Funktionen, Variablen, die sind ungenutzt, die möchte nicht mit ins Bundle reingeben. Da arbeiten wir auch noch dran dann. Da gibt's ganz viele Verbesserungen, wo wir noch das Bundle deutlich kleiner machen können. Aber ja, insgesamt ist es auf jeden Fall keine einfache Leistung. Es hilft natürlich, dass man sagt, wir müssen nicht von 0 anfangen.\n\nUnd sowohl Roller-up als auch ES Bild haben natürlich Testsuiten. Es ist also auch der Agnes gut zu sagen, man weiß, welches Verhalten man möchte. Dann kann man sich das entsprechend reinladen und dagegen implementieren. Mhm. Aber genau, es gibt halt durchaus Situationen, wo man sagt, okay, wie sollen man bestimmte Sachen handeln?\n\nNatürlich auch das ganze Thema, ne, ESM versus CGS, die 2 Formate in Javascript. Das ist eher mehr Legacy Format, was man eigentlich nicht mehr braucht, aber es halt trotzdem noch ganz viel gibt. CGS und ESM, was eigentlich so die Zukunft ist, ja, Spezifikationen. Die\n\nSpeaker 0: unterstützt beides noch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Liegt auch daran, so Kompatibilität first. Ja, okay. Idealerweise so meiner Meinung nach ESM ist die Zukunft. Es gibt eigentlich keinen guten Grund mehr, CGS zu nutzen, außer man hat halt noch eine Minerversion, wo man sagt, okay, hier in der nächsten Major, dann ist noch ESM only.\n\nLiegt daran, dass in Node selber man mittlerweile auch ECMA Skript Modules über nutzen kann. Node 18 ist halt mittlerweile End of Life und ab Node 20 wurd das Ganze gebackported. Heißt da sollte es ganz gut klappen, aber wie immer, dann gibt's Leute, die sagen, ja, was mit Electron? Was ist mit VISCODEXtensions? Also es ist halt leider nicht so einfach zu sagen, wir machen's nur ESM Only und fertig.\n\nIch hoffe, wir kommen dahin irgendwann. Es kann sich nur Jahrzehnte handeln, aber ja. Und das sind auch alles so Themen und ja, es es ist tatsächlich sehr kompliziert. Und dann geht's auch weiter, wenn man sich noch mal dieses Thema Abstract Syntext tree anschaut. Es gibt viele Tools, die das machen, die sagen, ich nehm Code und pack das entsprechend zu 'n Syntax tree.\n\nDafür gibt's auch eine Spezifikation, nennt sich ES3. Da halten sich die größten Parser und Code ran und auch die Leute, also zum Beispiel Linter erwarten dann 'n bestimmtes Format, das halt ES3 kompatibel ist. Da sind wir auch ganz gut dabei. Javascript ist komplett ESLINT, ESLINT ES3 kompatibel. Mhm.\n\nType Script tatsächlich gestern die Meldung erhalten, dass das auch kompatibel ist. Das ja, ist tatsächlich echt challenging, da sich einfach komplett zu allein und dann gibt's trotzdem noch Edge Cases und Probleme, wo wir dann wiederum zu den anderen Tools gehen und sagen, hier guck mal, wir haben das spezifikationstreu implementiert, aber hier gibt's 'n Bug. Gab's auch son son Case, wo man das entsprechend rausgefunden hat und dann reportet hat, sich glaub Babel und auch anderen Tools gesagt, hier, das ist nicht ganz korrekt. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was ich auch sehr herausfordernd, aber auch irgendwie beeindruckend fand, war, dass beim ersten Release von Rolldown, der ja im April 20 24 war, schon die 50 Contributer beteiligt waren. Also das fand ich relativ viel fürn ersten Release und hab mich erstens gefragt, also woher kamen die ganzen Leute? Das waren Also irgendwie denk ich mir, vielleicht kommen sie aus, aber das ist ja 'n Javascript Welt. Woher kommen die Lust Leute? Und auch wie strukturiert man das dann, wenn so viele Leute am Anfang, wo ja noch vieles offen ist, dabei sind?\n\nAlso wer hat dann da so die Flagge in der Hand?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich war tatsächlich, also ich hab das damals auch verfolgt, war da aber auch nicht dabei in in dem Sinne, dass ich's ganz von der Programmiersicht betrachte hab. Aber wo hätte Leute kommen, ist eigentlich ganz spannend. Können wir auch noch drüber reden, das Thema ne, Unify Toolchain in Javascript. Es gibt ja einige Projekte, die sagen, ja, lass mal 'n paar Sachen rastifyen, lass mal eine Toolchain für alles bauen. Dass wir eigentlich nur im besten Fall ein Kommando haben, ist überall integriert.\n\nDas ist son bisschen das Ziel von Void Zero als Firma, zu sagen, ja, wir brauchen uns nicht mal überlegen, welchen Formata, welchen Linder, welchen Bundler, welches Bildtour, welche Dokumentationsseite, welche Monorappe Support? So einfach dieses Problem zu sagen, jetzt hab ich die Tools, jetzt pick ich mir die irgendwie zusammen und dann gibt's doch wieder Probleme, weil die mit dem Framework nicht funktionieren, das zu lösen. Dann gab's vorher natürlich auch Projekte. Rome ist, glaub ich, mit das Bekannteste, wo ja 'n bisschen Geld veruntert wurde. Und dann gab's den, 'n Open Source Projekt, also Open Source, aber VCBAG und jetzt ist es Biom.\n\nDa kommen zum Beispiel einige Kontribute her, unser Engineering Bojenan, der für OXC, den, kommen wir auch drauf zurück, verantwortlich ist und da sehr, sehr viel macht. Der ist zum Beispiel ursprünglich hat er viel zu zu. Es gab viele Leute, die so aus der Turbopack und auch aus der RS Pack Richtung kamen. Also einfach Leute, die schon in dem Umfeld son bisschen kollabiert haben und da eine gute Möglichkeit sagen, zu sagen, okay, hier können wir entsprechend ja Impact wo Sachen, wenn wir was was machen, was ausrichten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay, das das klingt schon cool und Du sprichst ja auch für das Projekt, dass so viele Leute, die Ahnung haben, da zusammenkommen und versuchen, was Einheitliches zu bauen. Aber ja, Du hast es eben schon erwähnt. Ich glaub, man kann über fast nicht ohne OX sprechen, oder? Es hängt sehr stark zusammen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Also da gehen wir jetzt noch mal eine Abstraktionsebene runter. Wir haben schon gesagt, okay, jetzt der Average Web Dev nutzt irgendwie Veat. So Veat nutzt irgendwann Rolldown, ne oder jetzt mit Roller Veat. Okay, ja, ist klar, Leute kümmern sich in der Regel wenig den Bandler.\n\nAber den Bandler zu brauchen, braucht man natürlich auch irgendwie eine Art Foundation, ne. Also Tools, so wenn man überlegt, was macht 'n Compiler? Da hat irgendwie auch 'n Alexa und 'n Parser und so weiter im im im JavaScripts Universum. Was braucht man? Na ja, zum einen auch 'n Parser.\n\nWir möchten ganz gerne eben diese Files, diesen Codestrings in AST überführen. Wir brauchen einen Transformer, dass man eben sagt, okay, man kann zum Beispiel sagen, ich möchte mein JSX transformieren, das können Plugins machen. Kann aber auch der Bundler direkt, wenn man möchte oder der Compiler in dem Fall. Dann geht's aber auch weiter so 'n Resolver, weil wirkt zeigt auf unterschiedliche Dateien. Wir möchten die gern finden.\n\nGibt's auch wieder sehr viele unterschiedliche Spezifikationen. Und dann guckt man, sieht okay, wäre auch noch ganz schön, gibt's also auch 'n Minifier. Und was denk ich ganz interessant ist, dann für die wieder die Webentwickler, die jetzt nicht so tief in Bander und Compiler bauen Anführungsstrichen drin sind, Linter und Vormether, ja? Tatsächlich in dieser Suit des Oxidation Compilers, da steckt auch 'n Linter namens Oxlint, der ist so 50 bis hundertmal schneller als er's Lindt. Das ist schon ganz nett.\n\nUnd 'n Vormeter, der ist noch Work in progress zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme. Oxformet, der so einfach pritja kompatibel sein. Ja, und wer das Logo kennt, das ist son Anker, der ist braun, weil ja, ist ja alles in Rost geschrieben, so wie ich cool. Es ist 'n rostiger Anker und wie entsteht Rost durch Oxidierung? Deswegen Mhm.\n\nOxidation Compiler. Daher der Name, es ist immer noch nach wie vor eine eine coole Idee gewesen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sibi und ich dachten ja, dass der Anker dafür da ist, weil dann die ganzen Entwickler bei diesem Anker hängenbleiben sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Auch gut, auch gut. Ja, ich sag mal, hoffentlich zieht's ziehen die Tools dann eigentlich runter wie 'n Anker, sondern ja, die wir probieren spielen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sich stabilisieren einen, würde ich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, das ist auch gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Weil die ganze die ganze JavaScript Welt ist ja sehr wild und es geht in viele verschiedene Richtungen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das kommt dann 'n\n\nSpeaker 0: bisschen Ruhe rein. Das ist ja auch nicht schlecht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist das Ziel. Also auch da ist es halt recht spannend. Wir können gleich noch detailliert über die einzelnen Teile reden, aber ein großes Thema aktuell der React Compiler. Großes Thema, weil der ist aktuell in Babel geschrieben. Es gab mal die Überlegung zu sagen, wir machen 'n Rustport, der wurde wieder verworfen.\n\nUnd jetzt gibt's einen Issue in der OXC Repository, wo dann Leute vom Reactteam gesagt haben, hier React Compiler, wie sieht's denn aus? Einfach weil haben wir letztens auch gesehen, es gab, Evan hat es geteilt von Sanity, dem dem CMS. Die haben mal geguckt, wie schnell das mit RoadUnbeat ist und mit und ohne Bubble Compiler und ist halt schon irgendwie 'n vierfacher Slow Down. Einfach, weil's halt in in oder geschrieben ist. Mhm.\n\nUnd gut, dann ja, JavaScript dauert halt. Und wenn Du durch jedes, jedes, schwierig. Also.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr wolltet, dass der direkt Compiler 0XC nutzt\n\nSpeaker 2: hab ich das verstanden. Also, die Idee ist nicht mal zwingend. Das geht eher darum zu sagen, okay, den in was Schnelleres, also was Rustbasiertes zu legen. Und dann ist es, also muss ja nicht OX direkt nutzen. Ich glaub, dann finden das die Leute von von SwBC, ist auch anderes Projekt vielleicht nicht so cool, einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab 'n Kompatibilitätslayer, was einfach sagt, ich nutz Ashs Interstream, ne.\n\nUnd dann zu sagen, hier, ich ich setze nicht voraus, Aber auf jeden Fall, falls ihr daran interessiert seid und react schreibende Compiler nutzt, folgt ihm gern mal. Ja. Und ansonsten, es es passieren einfach so viele Sachen, aber wenn man 'n OLC nimmt, wie's aktuell ist, ist ganz lustig. Der Parser selber ist eigentlich der schnellste Parser da draußen insgesamt im Web Dev Ecosystem für Java Script und Hype Skript. Wichtig ist da also, ne.\n\nMan möchte ja, dass das alles korrekt gepasst wird. Es gibt vom t c 49, also gibt's so einen Testsuite, die Test, ich glaub, so was in der Richtung, oder, grad mal kurz geguckt. Die sind alle sind alle ready und passend. Das ist immer wichtig, wenn man Sachen implementiert, dass es auch alles wirklich so hinhaut. Man möchte ja nicht so, okay, man passt, was auf einmal kommt, was Falsches bei raus.\n\nMan möchte ganz gern die Nutzer da nicht enttäuschen. Und so als Benchmark, SWC, grade ja Direktnutzer nutzen das viel, was halt einfach schneller ist für das ganze Thema Parsend Transform. Mhm. Ja, Oxy ist dreimal schneller als das und ist auch schon Rust Tool, also auch ganz, ganz ordentlich. Genau, da kann man, wie gesagt, so Transformer, Resolver und so, auch weiter gucken sie alle auch recht schnell.\n\nDer Minifeier aktuell noch 'n Alpha, könnte aber trotzdem schon recht gut nutzen. Da geht's einfach darum, wir wollen das noch mal stabilisieren. Es gibt noch einige Optimierungen, die wir verbessern können, aber von der, ich sag mal, Geschwindigkeit zu Output, also zu Comprestred Output Ratio ist damit der Beste. Es gibt natürlich Minifier, die sind schneller. Die kriegen dann größere Bundles am Ende, weil klar, muss irgendwo Trade offs machen, andersrum genauso.\n\nIch kann sagen, ich möchte 'n ganz kleines Bundle, dann dauert das aber länger. Wir ziehen natürlich darauf ab, dass wir im Idealfall beides machen können. Mal gucken, wie gut das wird. Aber auf jeden Fall, wir sind da auch Benchmarkstechnische irgendwie sagen mit, wir wandeln Typescript als Datei oder verschiedene andere Sachen ganz gut dabei. Je nachdem, welche Metrik man geht, eigentlich immer in den Top 3.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr euch bei dem Plug in System von Rolldown an Rollup orientiert habt, Mhm. Dass ihr bei dem Oxlind euch an Erstland orientiert habt und Oxformat an Pritia?\n\nSpeaker 2: Jein. Also ist ist fast richtig. Oxformat auf jeden Fall Pretia kompatibel, genau. Tatsächlich als Funfact dazu, Teile von OXC gab's zum PR können schon, also der OXC Browser kann schon in Pretia genutzt werden. Es gibt dadurch schon Speed-up.\n\nIst natürlich nicht ganz so schnell wie alles in in Rust entsprechend zu bauen. Liegt einfach daran, dass man sagt, okay, Pritya ist so der de facto Standard, das ist, aber. So, man will sich in der Regel wenig Gedanken machen, zu sagen, welches Tour nehm ich dann und so weiter. Und die gleiche Idee gilt eigentlich auch für den Rest der der Toolchain. Bei Oxland ist son bisschen das Problem in Anführungsstrichen.\n\nJa, ISland ist halt der Platzhirsch, jeder nutzt ISland. 'N paar Leute nutzen Bayern und einige nutzen Oxland natürlich. Jetzt ist son bisschen der Punkt, was macht man da? Und was wir gemacht haben, ist, wir haben 5 mehr als 500 Regeln importiert, von Airceland in Rust. Das heißt, die laufen da von den beliebtesten Paketen mit.\n\nEinzelne einzige Ausnahmen, die's aktuell nicht gibt, sind stilistische Regeln, weil das soll der Vormieter machen, also so was wie Sortieren von Imports, dies, das. Und Type Awaren Lining, weil das einfach recht schwierig ist. Dann muss halt typecript involviert sein eigentlich. Muss man also gucken, wie man das sinnvoll und Performance hinbekommt. Heißt, die gibt's noch nicht.\n\nDer Rest ist eigentlich wieder so die populärsten Sachen sind implementiert. Auxland reagiert auch auf so was wie einfach nur Kompatibilität mit so dem dem Platzhirsch. Das Schwierigste und Spannendste ist eigentlich das Thema Custom Rules. Also so was wie Firmen haben ihre eigene Linch Rules. Wie schreib ich die?\n\nWeil die will man ja nicht zwingend alle in Rust schreiben. Und da ist, also da gibt's auch 'n lange Isch schon mit Diskussionen und Informationen, son bisschen das Problem der Trade off mit Kompatibilität. Also son bisschen wie, na machen wir jetzt alles ISIN kompatibel, dann verzichte aber auf Performance. Wir haben sehr viel Legacy Probleme, weil die ganzen Probleme der ASLIN APPI, das sind jetzt nicht Tausende nehm ich mal an, aber es sind genug, ja, sind dann auch bei uns. Man müsste das in Zünd halten und so weiter.\n\nDann gibt's Dino zum Beispiel haben wir's gemacht, die haben eine komplett neue API für so Linting bereitgestellt. Hast Du das Problem? Okay, wie ist das mit Adoption, als ob jetzt alle Leute, die 'n, Plug in Mainain ist auch als Dino Lind Plug in bereitstellen, das ist halt auch schwierig. Was wir versuchen, wir versuchen halt, was die angeht, so kompatibel wie möglich zu sein, ohne auf so viel Performance zu verzichten. Da wird aktuell noch viel experimentiert, deswegen gibt's auch aktuell noch keinen Javascript Plug in Support, aber der wird auf jeden Fall kommen.\n\nNicht zu 1 Punkt 0 tatsächlich, aber weitergehend, wir haben da 'n Blogpost in der Pipeline, weil die stabile Ochse in der 1 Punkt 0 Version steht, son bisschen vor der Tür. Und das ist halt 1 der Fokus, die wir eigentlich ganz gern legen wollen, ne. Sozusagen, okay, ihr könnt eure Custom Lindruhes schreiben, weil auch da wieder, wenn man in Richtung Enterprise guckt, es gibt Firmen, die haben über Hunderte, teilweise Tausende Custom Lindruhes. Und da will man's nicht sagen, ja, könntest Du nicht benutzen. Tschüs.\n\nSpeaker 1: Meine Frage zielte eigentlich son bisschen in Richtung Vision. Mhm. Dadurch, dass die, also hattest Du euch schon grade son bisschen angerissen. Also die Konfigurationssachen, die, also gibt's da, habt seht ihr da irgendwo noch Verbesserungsbedarf? Also weil mir mir dreht's dir immer der Magen und wenn ich dran denk, oh nein, ich muss jetzt in meine IS LinConfig irgendwas reinschreiben.\n\nJa. Wie geht das noch mal und dann, wie war noch mal die Prettyer Config? Was wie heißt das alles?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. So. Also wir idealerweise so die Idee wäre und das half eigentlich jetzt schon ganz gut, es ist halt und, ne. Also im besten Fall brauchst Du nichts zu konfigurieren. Du kannst einfach zum Beispiel jetzt schon sagen, Du lässt einfach laufen.\n\nDa sind alle Regeln, die, also sagen, der Code soll nicht falsch sein, ne, sind an und dann ist gut. Jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, es gibt immer Caseblatt, ich möchte die Lintriegel ausstellen, ich möchte was Custom hinzufügen, die ist das, klar. Aber die Idee ist auch da wieder ne, Unify Toolchain als Big Picture, It justworks ist immer son bisschen in der Ausnahme, wie gesagt. Da gibt's verschiedenste Präferenzen, dies das. Aber ich glaub so für das Allgemeine wirklich die Idee zu sagen, Du lastenkommando laufen und es funktioniert und Caching ist eingebaut im im im besten Fall.\n\nEs ist alles performant und Du musst dir darüber keine Sorgen machen. Also das ist das das große, große Ziel.\n\nSpeaker 1: Schön. Ich hätte noch eine andere Frage und zwar zu dem Punkt, dass wir im Dev Server den Bundled Mode haben. Ja. Und ich wollte eigentlich nur noch mal einen Beispiel von dir haben für, es ist mir auf die Füße gefallen, dass es anbandelt und buntelt gibt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also aktuell in wie, genau, hast Du den Devserver, der ist nur anbandelt. Bedeutet also sowas wie Performance Checks kannst Du sehr schwierig machen oder gucken, welche werden wann wie importiert. Das geht halt alles nicht. Also Du kannst halt schlecht sagen, welches Javaskulptfall, welcher Junk der dann auch im Production so wäre mit und so weiter, importiert dann welchen Chunk? Warum wird was geladen?\n\nNa, son bisschen Performancormimierung zum Beispiel oder auch so das Thema, ne, Da wär's halt ganz gut, wenn man das einfach in ähnlich wie in hätte. Jetzt natürlich nicht Minifight, ne, da kann man sagen, okay, performancetechnisch Messung wär eigentlich ganz gut, wenn man's auf Staging macht, aber zumindest, dass der Dev halt nachvollziehen kann, das funktioniert halt genauso. Und auf der anderen Seite aus Veeds Entwicklersicht oder aus Veed Teamsicht auch, es ist halt Komplexität. Also sobald ich halt ES, erst jetzt sag ich schon, ES Bild und Rollup beides bedenken muss bei allen Featuren, weil die sollen ja in der und auch in Produktion funktionieren, ist es recht schwierig. Genauso Veed Bau zum Beispiel hat eine eigenen HMA Mechanismus, also Hotmody Reload oder Hotmody Reload.\n\nDas wird's in Zukunft auch von übernommen, sodass halt da auch Komplexität wegfällt, weil das kann der Bande dann direkt, da braucht sich viel nicht drum kümmern, da kann das Ganze einfach adaptieren und und fertig. Also auf Entwicklerseite fällt halt Komplexität weg zu sagen, jetzt werden meine geladen. Ich seh jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, 1000 requests im Network, sondern ich seh halt, okay, hier ist der Entrychunk, hier ist dies das versus, ne, auch wie gesagt, von der der Sicht weniger Komplexität, was ja auch nicht schlecht ist. Bedeutet auch weniger Bugs.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool, ja, das versteh ich. Aber das war wäre dann wirklich Langzeit, Langzeit, weil ihr wolltet doch beide Modes noch weiter supporten oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Langzeit, Langzeit ist immer so schwierig. Die die Phasen, die ich vorhin erwähnt hatte, da geht's halt Monate, nicht Jahre. Das heißt also, solange der Full Bundle Mod opt in wird, sobald er dann kommt, ne, Opt in wird der getestet, genauso wie jetzt halt getestet wird. Und sobald das stabilisiert ist, es keine Probleme damit gibt, alle Kinderkrankheiten ausgebildet ist, ist das Ziel, das dann irgendwann als zu machen. Das wird aber dann, geh ich stark von aus, auch irgendwann in 'ner Major Version passieren, die jetzt nicht 8 ist, weil da kommt ja erst mit Rolldown.\n\nDa wird's ja noch mit Opt in bleiben, sondern 9, 10, wie auch immer. Genau, aber am Ende das das Maintain von Biden ist halt son bisschen schwierig, wenn man sagt, okay, es gibt halt einen Modus, der hat keine Trade offs, egal ob Du eine kleine oder große Applikation hast. Dann ist die Frage, warum warum behält man so die Komplexität, wenn's auch anders geht? Ich glaub, der ist superhilfreich gewesen, zum einen erst mal Entwicklern zu zeigen, hey, es geht doch schneller als in Webpack und hat sehr viel so zu Veats Popularität und auch son bisschen Identität mit beigetragen. Aber ich glaub, ab 'nem gewissen Punkt ist ja dann zu sagen, gut, warum, wenn's auch mit 'nem anderen Modus, der halt für alle Cases funktioniert, besser geht und eigentlich keine Nachteile hat, wenn's halt auch Speedtechnisch ähnlich ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und die und die Speed Improvings kommen dann, weil es eben in Rust geschrieben ist. Dann ist der Bundle Mode ähnlich schnell wie der Unbundle?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also die Idee wäre zu sagen, Webpack hat ja dann ewig gedauert. Genau, dadurch das Ganze dann Rust geschrieben ist, deutlich optimierter läuft und ja, wir entsprechend auch aus den den Lehren da gelernt haben und auch natürlich einige Optimierungen nicht brauchen für den Dev Mode, dann würde das entsprechend schneller funktionieren, korrekt. Als als nur so kleiner Hinweis oder als Randnotiz, wenn man sagt, wie schnell, man kennt das ja bei t s und t s go, ne, als gesagt hat, wir erporten nach go. Es wird alles zehnmal schneller. Das ist halt recht cool.\n\nAber ich hab son eine Statistik mal mitgebracht, die größte Repository, wo man mal Oxland drübergelaufen hat, ne. Ist jetzt kein Bundler, aber Linzin ist trotzdem recht aufwendig. Das ist recht cool. Da haben wir eine Pfeilanzahl von fast also 264925 Firers, also sag mal, 265 Firers. 101, also 101 Regeln.\n\n10 Threads wurden genutzt, auch wieder das Vorteil, ne, Multi Threading. So, könnt ihr mal schätzen, wie lang hat es denn gedauert, über diese 265000 Files mit Oxland und den 100 und eine Regel drüber laufen zu lassen? Können wir raten?\n\nSpeaker 1: 15 Sekunden.\n\nSpeaker 2: 15 Sekunden, okay. Zweihundertfünfsechstausend, Pfizer 5 Sekunden. Das wär schon\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ich hab gar keine Referenz, was passiert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich sag mal so im in IS sind brauchen wir dafür ziemlich sicher\n\nSpeaker 1: Stunden. Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, okay, da sind wir.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da sind wir.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich wollt jetzt 3 Sekunden ansetzen, aber jetzt würde ich höher höher gehen. Keine Ahnung. Sagen wir mal\n\nSpeaker 1: eine Minute. Eine Minute.\n\nSpeaker 2: Eine Minute, ja. 22.5 Sekunden. Ah, let's go. Ja, ja, okay. Nee, es war war gar nicht so schlecht tatsächlich.\n\nJa, ich hab mich vielleicht 'n kleines bisschen irre geführt, aber das ist ja wirklich, das sind so die Szenarien, wo man halt auch merkt, okay, diese Tools, die in nativer Sprache geschrieben sind Mhm. Und das ist einfach, also auch bei so Minifeiern, wenn Du sagst, Du Theresa zum Beispiel ist ja auch sehr populär oder eigentlich dann, wenn man das wirklich vergleicht, dann gibt's halt irgendwann einfach Time aus oder sagt man, okay, ist es nicht. Deswegen zum Beispiel Shopify nutzt Oxin schon bei sich für verschiedene Regeln. Müssen nicht mehr alle sein, einfach zu sagen, die die teuren Regeln, so was wie, guck bitte, dass es keine zyklischen Dependencies gibt. Ja.\n\nJa, da brauchst Du halt auch alle Files, weil na ja, Du willst ja gucken, ob's irgendwelche Kreise da drin gibt. Mhm. Und dann zu sagen, okay, wir haben das halt in 'ner riesigen Monorepo, ne, klar, dann geht's halt nicht anders, als auf auf solches Toolings zu setzen. Und das ist eigentlich auch ganz schön zu sehen, dass dass genau das passiert, dass halt genau die großen Cases, ne, für die funktioniert's dann auf einmal. Und auf einmal braucht man nicht mehr Stunden, selbst wenn's eine halbe Stunde ist, dass man das Ganze im CI hat.\n\nDas ist doch alles Zeit. Es hat aber jetzt ist jemand geschrieben, so allein, dass die Leute auf Roaddown Beatriert sind, ne, kein Linta geändert oder gar nichts. 50000 Dollar im Jahr ist die Ei Kosten gespart, einfach durch die Zeit. So. Ich glaub, wenn das Ja.\n\nWas macht die Firma jetzt, mit denen man sieht? Mhm. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wenn man Ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: das wird doch gespendet an euch, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich wollt grad sagen, also so so Ich glaub, vielleicht springt eine Open Source Contution bei rum. Mercedes Benz zum Beispiel, wir hatten auch 'n Post gemacht, Mercedes Benz I o, die sagen hier modernes Tooling und Co und wie viel man so an an Zeit sparen würde. Und dann hat auch jemand auf, ich glaub Bluescare geschrieben so, hey, ist ja voll cool. Ich hoffe, dann sprechen wird 'n bisschen des Geldes reinvestiert, das auch weiter zu ermöglichen. Deswegen, das ist eigentlich auch mal 'n ganz cooler Punkt so, man upgradet auf die Tour, es ist halt for free in dem Sinne.\n\nUnd wenn dann keine Ahnung, Zehntausende, 100000, wie auch immer Dollar, Euro gespart werden, Uns die Möglichkeit gibt, in der Firma was zurückzugeben, das ist immer eine gute Option dann an Open Source Projekte, ne. Da gibt's eine ganz große Auswahl natürlich von Veed, von den Projekten, die wieder aber auch einfach, was ihr benutzt. Es kann ja 'n kleines Modul sein, das kann 'n Framework sein, was zurückzugeben. Bin ich immer 'n großer Fan von.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich fänd's halt einfach krass, was das dann für Auswirkungen hat, vor allen Dingen im Enterprise Bereich. Vor allem, also auch mit der Geldgeschichte. Also die Zeit, die man sich spart, ist ja schon immer cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und das ist ja auch noch mal Geld, wenn man sagt, okay, Genau. Bei mir Produktivität, aber wirklich auch so CI Kosten noch dazu. Das ist halt echt krass.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Aber reizt es sich als, Source Contributer 'n bisschen in einzusteigen? Weil Du hast ja schon gesagt, das passiert grad an vielen Stellen und es hat halt auch sehr viel Sinn, das zu machen. Reizt sich das irgendwie?\n\nSpeaker 2: An sich ja. Also ich würd auch ganz gerne 'n paar kleine, was weiß ich, vielleicht mal in der Regel oder so was, son paar gut First Issues bei zum Beispiel OXC oder so Oxland in dem Fall oder so mit reingeben. Ich hatte Rust mir schon mal vor Jahren, so vor 5 Jahren oder so was, mir angeschaut, in dem Fall war's schon die neue trendige Sprache. Ich bin jetzt nicht so der, ich sag mal, Low Level Mensch in Anführungsstrichen, so c c plus plus ist jetzt nicht so persönlich meins. Bin ja war eigentlich lange Zeit der Freund von, ich bau coole Sachen und hier seht mal und nicht, jetzt kann ich das krass optimieren.\n\nAuf der anderen Seite natürlich, wenn man die Tools hat und son bisschen die Kombination, ja, reizt mich schon. Aktuell seh ich natürlich, meine Zeit ist da ganz gut investiert zu sagen, ich erkläre das und das, was die Leute im Team mitarbeiten. Ich guck, dass das aus die x-Sicht irgendwie passt. Ich geborene Feedback und kann so, ich denk mal, zeitlich besser contributen, aber bestimmt guck ich mal hobbymäßig rein. Weil ey, das ist superspannend, definitiv.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich find's auf jeden Fall cool, auch wie es Communities zusammenbringt, ne. So Javascript und werden da wahrscheinlich grad sehr zusammen, also die finden sich zusammen. Und auch allein, was wir, also auch das, was Oxy überhaupt macht, so viele verschiedene Dinge zusammenbringen und das Beste aus allen Welten. Und wir haben ja auch schon 'n paarmal Void Zero angesprochen. Ist es richtig, dass Du das so verstehe, dass das auch das Ziel von Void Zero ist, das Ganze zusammenbringen und zu vereinheitlichen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also bei Void Zero ist das Ziel in dieser, ich hatt's zum Hammer gesagt, Unified Javascript Tool Chain. Ich glaub, auch wenn wir bei beim Thema Rust bleiben, ist das ganz gut. Evan hat dann gesagt, so das Cargo für JavaScript. Also einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab effektiv ein Tool, ne. Und ich mein, wenn man jetzt sagt, das ist Veed oder Veed Plus, was grad in der Mache ist, dann zu sagen, okay, alles klar, damit kann ich wirklich alles abdecken, was das komplette Ökosystem braucht.\n\nWeil das geht, wie gesagt, das Thema, okay, ich kann irgendwas bauen, sei das eine Applikation, sei das eine Library, ne, soll auch mit abgedeckt werden. Aktuell gibt's Tools on top of Rolldown so als library Bundler. TS Down ist damit das bekannteste. Es gibt dann noch O-Bild. Heißt, wenn ihr 'n Library habt und der nutzt da irgendwas zu bauen, guckt euch das mal an.\n\nIst recht einfach. Gibt's auch 'n schönes Video als Explainer, weiß ja nicht das interessiert. Mhm. Und dann, genau, geht's halt weiter. Vielleicht auch irgendwann sagen, ich kann mein Javasker Backend damit bauen, ne.\n\nUnd eigentlich alle Jobs übernehmen, Linting, Formating, ich kann Docks erstellen. Ich hab irgendwie Dev Tools zum Beispiel Anthony Fu ist bestimmt vielen Namen der abarbeitet seit geraumer Zeit an den Dev Tools. Das auch, ja, ist Open Source. Sagen jedes Projekt kann einfach direkt sehen, okay, nicht nur Band kann man jetzt schon mit 'nem Visualizer, aber zum Beispiel wie lange braucht denn mein Bild? Welche Plugins dauern denn lange?\n\nWas gibt's da für Probleme? Und noch weiteres, Framework können ihre eigenen Integrationen für die DevTws dann bereitstellen, dann was Spezifisches zu haben und so weiter und so weiter. Also da ist echt viel in Arbeit und dann ja mit mit wie plus so die Idee zu haben, wir haben so das eine Ding und das covert eigentlich wirklich alles.\n\nSpeaker 0: V plus ist mir kein Begriff.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Halt Du das mal. Das das ist auch das ist auch, wie gesagt, das ist in the Making. Ich kann noch nicht so viel persönlich drüber berichten, außerdem, dass das so das Ziel ist. Das ist das bei Void Zero, muss man auch dazu sagen, kann ich auch 'n bisschen ausholen.\n\nWir haben ja Venture Capital. Das erlaubt am Ende, dass Leute auch Vollzeit in derToolchen arbeiten können, weil aktuell machen wir de facto kein Geld.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ne, ist ja alles Open Source. Es gibt vielleicht hier und da Firmen, die sagen, ja, hier könnt ihr uns helfen. Also bisschen klassisch, ne, Consulting oder in dem Sinne Verträge habe, dass nichts was skaliert oder womit man die Leute inklusive wieder finanzieren kann. Deswegen so VI plus wird das Produkt sein. Evan hat das auf der Jazz World schon mal vorgestellt, so heißt das Cargo für Javas Klub, einfach zu sagen, das ist eben das, was das Ganze komplett vereinheitlicht, was man dann entsprechend nutzen kann.\n\nMehr dann im Herbst. So viel kann ich schon mal spoilern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Viet plus klingt 'n bisschen dann wie ein, also Produkt, was son wie son Pro Produkt, also was dann bezahlt wird, aber das ist es nicht. Also es soll dann Open Source bleiben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist son bisschen der Punkt, wo man natürlich gucken muss, Monetarisierung ist ein wichtiger Punkt. Ja. Ich also ich sag mal, wenn ich persönlich jetzt, ne, losgelöst, es gibt viele unterschiedlichste Möglichkeiten, Projekte zu finanzieren. Zum Beispiel, wenn man überlegt, Direktors ist 'n CMS. Vielleicht kennt das einige, die haben zum Beispiel 'n Dual Licensing, also die machen BSL Business Source Licens und sagen, hey, ihr könnt das nutzen, alles kein Problem.\n\nAber wenn ihr 'n bestimmten revenue Threshold übersteigt, also wenn ihr 'n bestimmtes jährlichen Umsatz habt, dann braucht ihr eine Lizenz.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: So und natürlich das Ziel ist nicht zu sagen, wir Geld geben jetzt die Community, sondern dann das Ziel ist eigentlich zu sagen und das haben wir eigentlich auch immer gesagt, auch als ich noch nicht in der Firma war und Evan im Herbst letzten Jahres darüber interviewt hab, das Ziel ist, Enterprise zu fokussieren, was die Monetarisierung angeht. Deswegen es es wird vieles sein, aber es wird nicht so sein, dass sagt, okay, jetzt könnt ihr das Produkt nutzen, wenn ihr keine Ahnung, fünfer Monat zahlt oder zehner Monat. Deswegen da keine Sorge. Ja. Und wichtig ist auch, das ist auch noch wichtig, hinzuzufügen, alles, was aktuell unter MIT Leistungs bleibt, wird auch unter, also was unter MIT Leistungs ist, bleibt MIT Leistungs.\n\nMhm. Mach also keine Rugpols, das ist gar nicht geplant. Ist auch Quatsch, weil grade, ne, wir bauen alles rund Veat, wenn wir sagen, Veat wird irgendwie oder so was. Ja, das wird 'n weiteres Web Dev Chaos auslösen und es bringt halt auch gar nichts. Mhm.\n\nGenau. Wie, wie Du denkst.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, ich hab, ja, also ich hatte auch nur vom Veed plus erfahren, dass das halt irgendwann Ende des Jahres. Und jetzt überleg ich grade, wollt ich wegen der, wegen dem Time Frame, weil Du sagtest ja, wir reden hier gar nicht von Jahren, wir reden von Monaten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, die Sachen, die jetzt grade noch in the making sind, was meinst Du, Minifier und nee, Vormetter?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, Vormetter ist son Prototyp, der wird ziemlich sicher bis bis Herbst verfügbar sein. Genau, Minifier ist halt 'n Alpha, da geht's mal Stabilisierung. Und ansonsten ist die Toolchan, da ist schon ganz gut aus, würd ich sagen. Okay. Und dann eben selber, wie schon gesagt, so die Phasen, da geht's auch entsprechend Monate.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wow. Auf der OXC Webseite ist noch die Nova JavaScript Engine auf Genau,\n\nSpeaker 2: ich weiß, ja, tatsächlich muss ich ehrlich sagen, ist kein Projekt von uns, ist halt ein Projekt auch Rust basiert, was tatsächlich OXC nutzt. Also auch da OXC als eigenständiges Projekt zu sehen, das ist natürlich auch ganz nett zu sagen. Es gibt verschiedene Sachen, die drauf bauen. Aber to be fair, die Website, ich hoffe, wenn ihr, liebe Hörer da draußen, dass ihr auf OXC Punkt ice geht, ist die schon geupdatet, weil ich nämlich auch als der Minifeier, der Prototyp Complete ist. Da ist noch einiges an Arbeit zu tun, aber wie immer, das gibt's hin und vorne und an allen Enden.\n\nIch updatet das, bis ihr das hört. Genau. Aber genau, Javasc engine, das ist ja, wenn man noch mal wieder runtergeht und sagt, okay, ich möchte dann ganz gerne mein Javaskript irgendwo laufen lassen. Aber das ist 'n Work in progress Projekt. Weiteres Spannendes ist, die machen ja Javacript Engine basierend auf JavaScript, die das dann zu, ich glaub, irgendwie oder so komplettiert, ist auch alles ganz wild.\n\nHat aber alles nicht viel mit Oxy zu tun, außer bei Nova, wie gesagt, die nutzen Oxy als Projekt selber. Okay. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir springen zwar 'n bisschen, aber ich will eigentlich auch noch mal zurückkommen auf Viceuro. Vor allen Dingen, ich stell's mir halt schwer vor, wenn man so finanziert wird, die Interessen, beide Interessen irgendwie abzudecken. Also wie schafft man wie schafft man diesen Spagat, Open Source und das, was die brauchen, zu halten und was jetzt auch die Firmen von euch waren. Also zum Beispiel, was wollen die Firmen denn von euch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, das ist 'n guter Punkt. Wie gesagt, lustigerweise, ich denk ja immer zurück, so fast 'n fast 'n Jahr zurück in Japan, wo ich Evan als ja das Publicy Announce halt auch gefragt hatte. Weil die Hornhaut von der Konferenz sagt, hey, lass 'n lass 'n Interview machen eine Stunde. Und das auch erst mal der Punkt, als das Announcement kam mit, okay, es gab Seed Money, ne, von Void Starow, cool, 4 Punkt 6000000, dann denkst Du erst mal, okay. Rome, oh, das lief gar nicht gut.\n\nWeitere Open Source Projekte mit Finanzierung. Oh, was ich, was war's? Planenscale, Free Treal gekürzt, dies, das. Da siehst Du son bisschen die Horrormeldungen. Mhm.\n\nUnd das ist voll fair. Das Problem ist, es gibt also Open Source und VC ist nicht zwingend problematisch. Es kommt halt auf viele Sachen drauf an. Zum einen, wer steht hinter dem Projekt, ne? Evan mit 'nem Trackrekord von View und Weed, der also wirklich sich für Open Source einsetzt, ist jetzt niemanden, wo ich persönlich sag, ich würd dem Rugpool zutrauen so.\n\nMhm. Der würde es nicht machen. Weil ich glaub, er hat sich so guten Namen gemacht, wenn er irgendwie schnell Geld braucht, gibt's da andere Methoden als zu sagen, ich grün eine Firma und dann mach ich hier, was weiß ich, kommerziell. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 2: auch das Ding. Schnelles Geld ist gar nicht das Ziel. Wie gesagt, wir Die Firma gibt's jetzt seit fast 'nem 'nem Jahr oder seit 'nem Jahr war's ja angekündigt offiziell, gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger. Es ist noch kein Geld geflossen, dieser bis auf Consultantcy Contracts. Da sieht man aber auch, dass Evan sich die Investoren, denk ich, ganz gut ausgesucht hat.\n\nAlso zu sagen, okay, das Ziel ist erst mal diese Tool Chain zu bauen, erst mal die Fundamente für die Tool Chain zu bauen. Also Rolldown, das entsprechend wie zu integrieren, ne? OXC, Formatter, Linter und so weiter. Und dann irgendwann zu sagen, es gibt ein Produkt, dann gibt's halt irgendwie zum Beispiel Enterprise sowohl Support als auch irgendwie ne, Monterisierung. Es könnte sowas wie Hosted Solutions geben.\n\nEs gibt da ganz viel Möglichkeiten, was drumrum zu bauen. Wir sehen jetzt in anderen Ökosystemen auch, Laverwell zum Beispiel allen voran dran mit Taylor Ottwell, Taylor und Evan ja auch gut befreundet, die jetzt auch mit Laverwell Cloud riesiges Investment haben, aber auch ganz viel drum rum haben, was aber dem Framework eigentlich gar nicht selber schadet.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Heißt, da die Interessen zu vertreten, ist recht gut möglich, wenn man sich die richtigen Leute auszusamm, die auch an die Vision glauben. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wenn man\n\nSpeaker 2: das vergleicht mit dem, ist vielleicht böse gesagt, aber dem average Start-up, sagt, okay, wir haben eine coole Idee. Wir haben eigentlich nichts vorzuweisen, vielleicht 'n MVP. Hier ist eine Demo, wir brauchen Geld. Dann ist es natürlich eine ganz andere Reihe von Leuten, die vielleicht interessiert sind oder wo man entsprechend Investitionen und Funding bekommt als, hey, ich bin der Hersteller von View undViet. Ich habe eine Vision für die Javascript Welt.\n\nGuckt mal. So, dann sind die Investoren auch nicht so, die sagen, ich brauch meinen jetzt nächsten Monat, sondern okay, wir geben Zeit, wir machen und wir glauben immer an diese Vision zu sagen, macht halt Web Development an sich besser. Und natürlich, dabei soll am Ende auch Geld rumkommen, keine Frage. So was, eine Firma ist nun mal profitorientiert, aber das ist aktuell gar nicht der Fokus und wird dann, wie gesagt, spannend durch Produkte wie zum Beispiel wie Plus oder wie andere Sachen, die später kommen könnten, Mhm. Wie das Ganze dann wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, im schlimm oder was heißt im schlimmsten Fall, aber im Fall der Fälle würdet ihr auch Investoren ablehnen, die nicht mit dieser Vision übereinstimmen, die was anderes von euch wollen, als was ihr wollt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist definitiv in der Auswahl der Investoren passiert, ja. Also ich war ich war nicht dabei, aber ich hab da genug Gespräch drüber gehabt zu sagen, okay, es man hat sich da schon ganz gut die Leute ausgesucht und angeschaut,\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hat die entsprechend eben da die Vision mit verfolgen verstehen tragen können und auch was zu beitragen können, ne. Es geht jetzt ginge nicht darum zu sagen, wer kann mir das meiste Geld geben, sondern es geht darum auch, wie können Investoren hilfreich sein, diese Visionen letztendlich umzusetzen, ne. Mhm. Also sowohl ne, Netzwerk, bestimmte Personen, wenn man's sieht, okay, es sind Leute, mit dem jemand von Natlefy zum Beispiel dabei, der investiert hat. Einige wirklich bekannte Business Angel aus dem Webuniversum, wo man sagt, okay, die verstehen das Ganze aus 'ner technischen Sicht, können aber auch helfen, das Ganze vor voranzubringen.\n\nMhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich seh die ganzen vor Vorteile daran und auch dieses, ja, Problem in der Open Source Welt, Geld generell als Problem vielleicht damit lösen zu können. Ich hoffe auf jeden Fall und ich wünsch euch viel Erfolg und auch irgendwie 'n guten Weg, dass es für euch gut funktioniert und ihr da vielleicht auch Vorreiter fürn Positivbeispiel seid, weil eben hast Du eigentlich nur Negativbeispiel aus der Vergangenheit genannt. Ich kenn jetzt auch selber kein positives, aber ich hab irgendwie 'n gutes Gefühl bei euch. Die Bedingungen wirken gut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Vielen lieben Dank.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja. Leute.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also ich ich muss sagen, es gibt durchaus positiv Beispiele so. Ich glaub Superbase ist ein Positivbeispiel, wo man sagt, okay, hey, die haben hier, die machen coole Sachen, ne. Stack Blitz und irgendwie. Es gibt schon es gibt schon einige, wenn man jetzt nicht nur so auf die negativ, aber das, wie's grad gesagt hat, die negativen Sachen bleibt halt hängen, wie's ganz oft so ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Spannenderweise das Thema Open Source und Geld könnte man noch mal eine ganz eigene Episode mit füllen, aber nur, das unterzubringen. Ich hab nämlich da, ich ich hab mir auch immer gesagt so, ja, warum denn eine Firma? Warum nicht was anderes? Und da ist der Punkt, das Ziel, ne, man muss erst mal mit 'ner bestimmten Geschwindigkeit dran arbeiten, sonst passiert halt nicht viel. Du kannst ja nicht sagen, wir arbeiten da son paar Stunden nachmittags dran.\n\nIch muss ja die Rechnung zahlen, deswegen arbeite ich eigentlich woanders Mhm. Und so weiter. Und grad die Leute, die sich mit dem Thema auskennen, wie schon gesagt, es gab eine Leute, die vorhin an RRS Pack gearbeitet haben, an Biom on Österreichs Rome gearbeitet haben und die dann mit dabei sind. Aber auch einfach, weil es dann halt möglich ist, die Rechnung zu zahlen. Mhm.\n\nJa, und das ist halt natürlich 'n Punkt, wo man sagt, wenn man das Ganze realisieren will und da geht's dann nicht Jahrzehnte, sondern Monate und Jahre, also ist auch in 'ner guten Geschwindigkeit. Und das das find ich sieht man eigentlich bei World Zero ganz gut, dass das passiert. So nicht nur, dass irgendwie Issues superschnell beantwortet werden, aber auch einfach, dass es dass einfach es geht vorwärts. Und dann halt ja, das das geht eigentlich nur, wenn man entsprechend Geld zur Verfügung hat. Und man sieht das beim View Team wiederum, das View Team ist halt underfundet an sich, so Evan Sponsor oder gibt's Geld zu Mainainern aus seiner eigenen Tasche, aber da ist ja keine Organisation in dem Sinne dahinter.\n\nOder gibt's viel im Core Team, die machen das halt ja nebenbei in Freizeit. Was jetzt nicht zwingend schlecht ist, aber was halt zeigt, okay, das wäre halt bei bei Voice Zero, was ja unabhängig vom Viewökosystem ist und gedacht ist, so halt nicht ganz möglich. Ja. Ich glaub, von dem Punkt tatsächlich noch mal eine ein wichtiger eine wichtige Bemerkung, nämlich das Thema Governance, ja. Aber jetzt kann man sagen, okay, wird jetzt viel mit an der assoziiert, Rolldown o x-C und wenn man auf die Website guckt, man hat noch V-Test mit darunter.\n\nTesting haben wir gar nicht so viel besprochen, ist aber genau mit dazu. Mhm. Und zwar, dass die Governance, was die Projekte angeht, Rolldown und OXE sind die 2 Kernprojekte, wo wo Void Zero eigentlich die Richtung steuert sozusagen. Weed selber zum Beispiel ist, das ist immer ganz schön zu erwähnen, 'n Projekt, wo Firmen, also Leute beteiligt sind, die von unterschiedlichem Hintergrund firmentechnisch sind. Also wie gesagt, klar, Evan, das ist eine Firma, Saphi, ist auch bei uns bei Void Zero mit dabei.\n\nHiroshi genauso sind 2 Container. Dann haben wir aber viele, es gab zum Beispiel 'n Container Byorren, der wurde von Astro für eine Zeit lang geheiert. Patak eigentlich der Hauptminainer mit, der ist bei Steckblitz. Mhm. Anthony Fu, der ist ja auch gefühlt überall mit dabei.\n\nDer ist bei, also der Firma, die der oder der Creator von, ja, ins Leben gerufen hat. Und da ist es eigentlich ganz nett, dass man eben sieht, es geht's nicht die Interessen 1 einzelner Firma. Das wäre auch in dem Sinne gefährlich, ne. Sondern hier sieht man halt, okay, das ist 'n Joint Effort plus natürlich im Ökosystem die ganzen Projekte, die dahinterstehen, die ganzen Frameworks, die ganzen Tools, so was wie Playright und Storybook und so weiter und so weiter. Mhm.\n\nAlso auch da ist es noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, es geht halt nicht darum, dass jetzt Void Zero die ganze Welt kontrolliert oder die ganze Web der Welt. Aber wir können halt, dadurch, dass wir zum Beispiel dazu Safi und Hiroshi auf der Payroll haben, dass wir Wladimir, den Hauptminainer von V-Test Vollzeit mit dabeihaben und so weiter. Damit die Möglichkeit natürlich da Entwicklungen voranzutreiben und auch sicherzustellen, dass das Ganze ja kontinuierlich gute Features bekommt, bugfix ist und auch da weitergeht. Es ist auch eine Art und Weise der Open Source Sustainability. Mhm.\n\nUnd dazu das auch noch, wollt ich mir eigentlich fürn Pick aufheben, aber ich hatte ich hatte 2 im im Kopf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nice.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gibt ja von Sentry 'n Open Source Pledge. Wer ihr noch nicht kennt, Firmen können also sagen, okay, für jeden Employe gebe ich im Jahr eine bestimmte Summe, ich glaub, 2000 Dollar oder so was an Open Source. Und dann kannst Du entsprechend da gelistet werden. Das Ganze kannst Du reporten und da sind wir bei bei uns wieder auch mit dabei. Das heißt, unabhängig für Leuten, die wir auf der Payroll haben, sponsern wir also auch noch mal entsprechende Leute.\n\nGenau, pro Entwickler ist wichtig, nicht nur pro Employe, sondern es pro Entwickler heißt, wenn ihr nur 2 Entwickler habt, ist das recht günstig. Da kann man damit gelistet werden, ist nicht nur eine nette Möglichkeit, für Open Source zurückzugeben, sondern auch zu zeigen, dass man in der Firma natürlich das Ganze in 'ner Art und Weise fördert. Genau. Und das Logo kommt dann auch auf den Times Square. Das ist kann ich, ich lege auch noch mal senden.\n\nDas ist immer so in gewissen Abständen, ich glaub jedes halbe Jahr, die Leute, die 'n Open Source Platz joinen, da gibt's dann auf der so, das war auch ganz cool, das zu sehen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr cool. Dann Hast Du noch Fragen, Sibi?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab keine Fragen mehr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann mach ich jetzt mal den Jan und frag seine typische Frage. Alex, haben wir dich irgendwas gefragt oder nicht gefragt, wo Du dachtest, oh, darüber möcht ich aber unbedingt sprechen. Das fehlt uns jetzt noch. Du hast eben schon Testing angesprochen. Da noch drüber sprechen, aber ansonsten, was auch immer Du noch loswerden willst, gerne.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, erst mal gute Frage als auch Podcast Host appreciate ich das immer sehr. Auch wenns die meisten sagen, nö, eigentlich haben wir alles besprochen. Ich denk auch im Großen und Ganzen passt das. Ich glaub, das Wichtigste auch da noch mal, ne, es geht jeder jedes Framework ist da mit drin, testet gern mal oder wenn ihr euch das weit, weit in der Zukunft anhört, testet sich die voll Bundle Mount, wenn ihr schon raus ist. Mhm.\n\nUnd das Wichtigste, wenn ihr irgendwelche Fragen habt, dann scheut euch nicht zu posten, so sei's irgendwie auf Socials, schick mir, was weiß ich, auch eine E-Mail, das ist auch in Ordnung. Also nur zu damit, ne. Und eine letzte Bitte, es gibt eine, nennt sich, also Performance Wins. Da tragen Leute dann einen, so okay, ich hab meine Applikation, entweder werden die Open Source noch besser, aber wie schnell ist sie denn geworden? Wenn ihr das Ganze nutzt und euch da verewigen wollt, immer her damit.\n\nUnd ansonsten kommt gerne in die Discord, den oder auch die Lead Discord. Wenn ihr irgendwie Feedback braucht, sagt, hey, das ist irgendwie nicht ganz schnell wie erwartet, könnt ihr mir helfen. So, wir sind da eigentlich in der Regel immer mit dabei und stehen mit Rat und Tat zur Seite.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Die Links werden wir auf jeden Fall auch noch in die Shownotes packen. Und was für Links wir da auch reinpacken, sind die. Und da lass mal den Jingle laufen, dann geht's ab.\n\nSpeaker 2: Alex, Du\n\nSpeaker 0: hast schon eben dein deine erste Möglichkeit für den Pick genannt. Willst Du die zweite direkt aufnen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, klar, gerne. Genau, ich hab son bisschen 2 reingesneakt. Das kann mal passieren, hab ich gehört. Mein zweiter Pick ist doch deutlich technischer fokussiert. Und zwar, es ist Knip KNIP, Knip dot dev.\n\nLogo hat sone Schere und genau darum geht's. Wir wollen was loswerden, wollen was abschneiden, nämlich all die ungenutzten Dependencies, die ungenutzten Exports und. Das kann nämlich knapp machen in auch wieder ne, Framework knostistische Plugins, die automatisch eingesetzt werden, egal, was man nutzt von irgendwie. Wenn ich ESLINN nutze, dann wird natürlich die ESLINNConfig ignoriert und dann wird geguckt, was sind's denn da, was steht da drinne Frameworkbasiert und so weiter. Ist eine sehr gute Möglichkeit, nicht nur einmalig, sondern auch gerne in CI sicherzustellen, dass ihr keine ungenutzten Dependencies mehr habt.\n\nUnd ja, ist ein sehr, sehr cooles Projekt, wird fast überall mittlerweile genutzt, tatsächlich auch in Repositories wie Rolldown und auch selber. Deswegen ja, Knip, eine sehr, sehr gute Option, denke ich. Guckt euch das gern mal an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und ansonsten, wenn irgendwas nicht klappt, contributed, die Plug ins sind einfach zu stellen. Ich hatte vor 'ner Woche oder so was auch erst contributed. Das ist richtig smooven.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr geil, Knip. Konnte mir nix.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kannte ich auch nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cebi, was hast Du mitgebracht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh mein, ist ein Proposal für Random Functions. Zuerst Stage 1, aber ich find Random Function in Javascript, das lohnt sich, dass man da mal 'n bisschen das game absteppt. Irgendwie immer ständig irgendwie sone Shuffle Function schreiben oder irgendwie Krempiskram. Ja. Und vor allem vor allem auch, dass man's vielleicht irgendwann mal siegen kann.\n\nOkay. Für Tests und so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah, gibt's auch 'n Proposit, ne? Ist das damit drin?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, das ist 'n anderes, ja. Ja. Mhm. Aber bin ich auf jeden Fall Feuer und Flamme. Freu ich mich sehr, wenn das kenntlich kommt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da hab ich eine Anekdote zu tatsächlich. Die muss ich ganz kurz loswerden. Oh Gott. Tatsächlich in 2015 ging mir das auch schon so sehr auf den Sack. Dann hab ich in die E-Mail-Liste vom TC Viertel hinein da geschrieben, sagt hier, sieht's 'n aus?\n\nWollen wir nicht mal irgendwie sone random Shaffe Funktion für Array erstellen? Kam leider in die Antwort.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber Sind 10 Jahre später?\n\nSpeaker 2: 10 Jahre später. Also ich ich habe mich mit dem mit paar Leuten vom T-C-Pilot unterhalten, die waren nicht auch auf der Konferenz und hab gemeint, hey, wie sieht's 'n aus, Use Case, dies das? Und ja, Sachen passieren. Deswegen es es ist megaspannend. Und es gibt zwar die Eric schaffen funktioniert immer noch nicht, auch in den Proposal, glaub ich, nicht, aber mal gucken.\n\nEs wurde auf jeden Fall angeraten, dann zu schauen, ob's da vielleicht noch neben dem Platz gibt, schon mal zu schauen, was möglich ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ich hab mich jedenfalls sehr gefreut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich find's generell, also sind grad einige Proposals am Start, die ich spannend finde. Der Proposal ist tatsächlich\n\nSpeaker 1: eine Staffel für random. Ich hab\n\nSpeaker 2: auch keine Ahnung, ja. Fair. Dann heißt Du nicht Array Punkt to Shoveled oder\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, es ist Random Punkt Shovel und da gibt's das Array.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah, genau, das macht Sinn. Ja. Ja, geil, sehr schön. Endlich, es hat nur 10 Jahre bis Stage 1, das ist übertrieben, gedauert. Aber ich stimmen da gerad und noch dir Sebi voll zu.\n\nEs passiert superviel. Mhm. Und das ist echt schön, dass nicht irgendwie früher so es passiert langsam und gemächlich war's. Mhm. Ja, super zu sehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Finde ich auch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Irgendwas 'n bisschen. Und erinnert mich grade, wenn Du sagst so, der Scope vor 10 Jahren son bisschen wie dieses Temporal. Ja. So, wo man irgendwie schon seit 100 Jahren die Schmerzen spürt von der Date API.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da gibt's auch noch 'n geilen Funfact zu. Mozilla, also Firefox hat sich ja geschippt mittlerweile als erster Browser. Und das Krasse war, die Implementierung kam nicht von 'nem Mozilla Mitarbeiter, sondern von 'nem random Contribut, der es einfach allein in in Firefox reingebracht hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh krass.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das, ich glaub André heißt mit Vornamen. Das war sone Sache, glaubt man manchmal nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Aber vielleicht stößt das jetzt was an. Also es ist cool, hören das mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Der war vielleicht maximal frustriert. Vermutlich. Ich mach's jetzt einfach.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. André Pagulli. Es ist auch wild. Es steht auch in dem Blogpost dazu drin, wo Du sagst hast, okay, ja, mein einziger. Bild, wild.\n\nOpen Source ist was Schönes.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist was Schönes. Ich hab auch noch was mitgebracht. Und zwar haben wir heute viel über Technologie gesprochen, die eher low levelig ist. Und dazu hab ich mal ein sehr cooles GitHub Repository gefunden, das heißt. Und da ist 'n eine ganze Sammlung von Links, die zu irgendwelchen Tutorials oder Artikeln führen, wo man eben bestimmte Dinge selber nachbaut von 0, von sozusagen.\n\nAlso da ist zum Beispiel dabei, ein großes Ding ist immer. Und ich find es grade cool, auch jetzt in der Welt von AI, wo man, ich glaub, viele Endprodukte vielleicht nicht mehr selber baut oder mehr von der AI machen lässt, ist es trotzdem immer cool, auch mal Selbsthand anzulegen und Dinge von Grund auf zu verstehen. Und ich glaube, wenn man so was mal baut, dann lernt man da sehr viel. Und ja, diese Liste ist superlang, superspannend. Was noch fehlt, ist Billjo Own Bandler.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Da kommen vielleicht eine Blogpost so. Auch generell, wie son Bandler funktioniert, was die Anatomie ist. Warum, wieso, weshalb. Ja, alles auf der endlosen Liste.\n\nJa. Und es gibt\n\nSpeaker 0: es gibt viel zu tun. Ja. Und viele coole Ideen. Aber genau, da kann man mal reinschnuppern, mal was nachbauen. Ich glaube, das kann Spaß machen und man lernt halt superviel.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mega wichtig. Ich finde so grade das Foundational, also die die Grundlagen oder so was wie wie funktioniert das unter der Haube? Ich glaub, es hat ganz viele so mit zum Programmieren gebracht, so zum Beispiel, okay, ich nutze dieses Programm. Wie könnte ich so was denn selber machen oder warum wie funktioniert das? Das ist halt megacool.\n\nUnd vor allem so dieser Spagat zwischen ich nutze etwas versus ich baue an was selber. Mhm. Bei Frameworks zum Beispiel, noch mal auf die technische Ebene zurückzukommen, zu sagen, ich nutze 'n React oder 'n Angulares Welt versus, ich baue daran 2 verschiedene Welten. Deswegen ist sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr cooler Pick.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das ist auch das, was man macht, wenn man generell als Kontribute einsteigt in Open Source Software. Man geht halt eine Stufe tiefer irgendwie, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ich mein, wahrscheinlich, wenn man wirklich komplett anfängt zu sagen, okay, irgendwie Modul zu irgendwas, wo man sagt, ich hab hab zumindest noch son bisschen Beziehung dazu und ist nicht, keine Ahnung, hier, ich die Bagge Realität und da sind Proxys und da muss ich was tracken und aber auch da, ne Step by Step. Und auch was, was ich dann ganz gern zu sagen, sind auch Dokumentationen, sind ist ist Content genauso. Und Tests sind auch immer super. Das ist das ist halt alles richtig viel wert.\n\nDeswegen scheut euch da nicht und und tut es. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cooler Aufruf. Das ist doch ein schönes Schlusswort. Vielen Dank Alex, dass Du da warst, dass Du Sehr gerne. Auch alle Einblicke gegeben hast in Rolldown, OXC, Wide Zero. Ich finde es superspannend, in welche Richtung ihr da geht.\n\nAuch Sebi, vielen Dank, dass Du dabei warst und dieses Thema spannend fandest und deswegen Lust hat, es mal wieder im Podcast zu sein. Hat mir sehr viel Spaß gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und danke dir, Gareth auch. Großartig, die\n\nSpeaker 2: Modelle Gerne. Und danke euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr gerne. Ankündigungen, machen wir nicht den. Das hab ich schon gelernt. Deswegen sag ich einfach vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis zum nächsten Mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bis dann. Tschüs. Tschau, tschau.",[45246,45255,45261,45265,45276,45284,45291,45301,45305,45309,45314,45318,45330,45343,45348,45361,45372,45377,45389,45394,45400,45405,45409,45421,45427,45436,45448,45461,45473,45482,45495,45499,45511,45524,45537,45550,45561,45574,45585,45589,45593,45597,45609,45622,45629,45632,45643,45654,45661,45665,45673,45685,45698,45711,45722,45735,45746,45749,45761,45773,45786,45799,45804,45810,45822,45828,45832,45840,45843,45855,45866,45879,45891,45904,45909,45916,45926,45938,45950,45961,45973,45985,45995,45999,46010,46022,46034,46046,46055,46068,46073,46086,46099,46109,46120,46132,46145,46157,46170,46182,46188,46192,46199,46203,46207,46213,46217,46223,46235,46247,46254,46258,46271,46283,46296,46307,46319,46332,46338,46350,46362,46374,46386,46398,46411,46424,46435,46446,46453,46464,46476,46482,46491,46503,46516,46527,46534,46547,46560,46566,46579,46591,46600,46604,46613,46617,46621,46626,46630,46634,46642,46648,46660,46672,46683,46695,46701,46705,46709,46721,46731,46740,46749,46759,46772,46785,46797,46810,46823,46834,46846,46854,46858,46870,46876,46879,46891,46897,46904,46915,46919,46922,46934,46944,46949,46955,46958,46962,46973,46979,46992,47003,47009,47019,47031,47042,47055,47063,47066,47078,47090,47096,47099,47105,47109,47121,47134,47138,47144,47147,47158,47161,47171,47175,47180,47191,47194,47207,47218,47231,47242,47253,47264,47275,47286,47290,47293,47305,47316,47322,47327,47331,47344,47355,47367,47375,47384,47388,47394,47406,47418,47427,47430,47439,47445,47449,47453,47464,47469,47475,47485,47497,47503,47507,47519,47523,47528,47534,47540,47547,47551,47562,47572,47576,47585,47593,47597,47603,47610,47617,47628,47632,47644,47656,47667,47672,47684,47696,47705,47711,47722,47727,47739,47745,47751,47757,47767],{"sentences":45247,"speaker":192,"num_words":45254,"start":189,"end":377},[45248,45250,45252],{"text":45249,"start":189,"end":241},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive bei der Programmierbar.",{"text":45251,"start":246,"end":329},"Ich bin hier im hybriden Studio und hab 2 Leute mit mir hier sitzen, auf die ich mich beide sehr freue.",{"text":45253,"start":329,"end":377},"Und zwar nämlich einmal sitzt endlich mal wieder der Seebe neben mir.",45,{"sentences":45256,"speaker":171,"num_words":45260,"start":377,"end":392},[45257,45259],{"text":45258,"start":377,"end":388},"Hi, Garelt.",{"text":394,"start":388,"end":392},3,{"sentences":45262,"speaker":398,"num_words":398,"start":392,"end":402},[45263],{"text":45264,"start":392,"end":402},"Ich freu",{"sentences":45266,"speaker":192,"num_words":45275,"start":402,"end":497},[45267,45269,45271,45273],{"text":45268,"start":402,"end":410},"mich auch.",{"text":45270,"start":415,"end":442},"Ja, ist 'n cooles Thema auch heute.",{"text":45272,"start":446,"end":489},"Und für dieses Thema haben wir uns den Alexander Lichter eingeladen.",{"text":45274,"start":489,"end":497},"Hallo Alex.",22,{"sentences":45277,"speaker":398,"num_words":45275,"start":501,"end":591},[45278,45280,45282],{"text":45279,"start":501,"end":515},"Hallo Sevi, hallo Garel.",{"text":45281,"start":515,"end":579},"Schön, dass ich wieder dabei sein kann zum dritten Mal jetzt, ne, die dritte Episode.",{"text":45283,"start":583,"end":591},"Ja, die dritte",{"sentences":45285,"speaker":192,"num_words":45290,"start":591,"end":651},[45286,45288],{"text":45287,"start":591,"end":619},"Episode, die letzten 2 waren über Naxt.",{"text":45289,"start":623,"end":651},"Heute geht's nicht Naxt, sondern was anderes.",14,{"sentences":45292,"speaker":398,"num_words":45300,"start":651,"end":721},[45293,45295,45297,45298],{"text":45294,"start":651,"end":669},"Nicht hauptsächlich zumindest, ne?",{"text":45296,"start":669,"end":700},"Son bisschen reingesnekt wird das vielleicht gehört.",{"text":706,"start":700,"end":704},{"text":45299,"start":709,"end":721},"Aber genau, richtig.",15,{"sentences":45302,"speaker":192,"num_words":398,"start":721,"end":731},[45303],{"text":45304,"start":721,"end":731},"Das stimmt.",{"sentences":45306,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":731,"end":739},[45307],{"text":45308,"start":731,"end":739},"Das ist",{"sentences":45310,"speaker":192,"num_words":45313,"start":739,"end":765},[45311],{"text":45312,"start":739,"end":765},"ja auch alles 'n bisschen miteinander verbunden.",7,{"sentences":45315,"speaker":398,"num_words":45260,"start":765,"end":779},[45316],{"text":45317,"start":765,"end":779},"So ist es.",{"sentences":45319,"speaker":192,"num_words":45329,"start":779,"end":1140},[45320,45321,45323,45325,45327],{"text":786,"start":779,"end":783},{"text":45322,"start":783,"end":884},"Du warst schon zweimal da, viele kennen dich bestimmt, aber für die Leute, die dich nicht kennen, stell ich's dir noch einmal ganz kurz vor.",{"text":45324,"start":888,"end":951},"Alex ist eine bekannte Stimme und Gesicht in der Web und vor allen Dingen der Viewwelt.",{"text":45326,"start":951,"end":1073},"Und das liegt unter anderem daran, dass er als Kom Container schon viel bei beigetragen hat, aber auch generell viel zu Open Source Software contributed, unter anderem eben auch View.",{"text":45328,"start":1077,"end":1140},"Aber Du bist auch Host von, ein Podcast, der sich alle möglichen View Themen dreht.",87,{"sentences":45331,"speaker":192,"num_words":45342,"start":1144,"end":1384},[45332,45334,45336,45338,45340],{"text":45333,"start":1144,"end":1193},"Und auch auf vielen Konferenzen weltweit sprichst Du über, über Webthemen, über View.",{"text":45335,"start":1196,"end":1216},"Da sieht man dich auch häufiger.",{"text":45337,"start":1220,"end":1273},"Und seit Kurzem bist Du auch als Developer Relations bei Void Zero aktiv.",{"text":45339,"start":1273,"end":1308},"Da bin ich auch sehr gespannt, was Du heute erzählst.",{"text":45341,"start":1312,"end":1384},"Und neben diesen ganzen Dingen, die ich jetzt schon genannt hab, bist Du auch noch irgendwie Consultant und machst Workshops.",62,{"sentences":45344,"speaker":192,"num_words":45347,"start":1389,"end":1418},[45345],{"text":45346,"start":1389,"end":1418},"Wie viel Zeit hast Du dafür überhaupt noch?",8,{"sentences":45349,"speaker":398,"num_words":45360,"start":1418,"end":1801},[45350,45352,45354,45356,45358],{"text":45351,"start":1418,"end":1427},"Ja, genau.",{"text":45353,"start":1427,"end":1470},"Es ist es klingt alles recht viel, ist auch alles absolut richtig.",{"text":45355,"start":1474,"end":1594},"Natürlich, seitdem ich bei Boyd Zero bin, also jetzt ungefähr so zweieinhalb, wahrscheinlich mit der Episode rauskommt, so 3 Monate, weniger Zeit für Consultants hier auf jeden Fall, weniger Zeit für Beratung.",{"text":45357,"start":1599,"end":1752},"Dadurch, dass, wie Du schon gesagt hast, so okay, viel Zeit geht natürlich für meinen Teilzeit Devral Job bei Boyd Zero sind 3 Tage die Woche drauf Und die anderen 2 Tage ist dann ja, Open Source will man trotzdem noch contributen.",{"text":45359,"start":1756,"end":1801},"Man ist mal auf Konferenzen, wobei es zum Teil natürlich auch Arbeitszeit ist.",101,{"sentences":45362,"speaker":398,"num_words":45371,"start":1806,"end":2108},[45363,45365,45367,45369],{"text":45364,"start":1806,"end":1876},"Youtube Channel hab ich auch noch, wo ich jede Woche 'n Video über View Next und auch Webthemen mitreeleße.",{"text":45366,"start":1876,"end":1934},"Genau, der Podcast, ja, da bleibt da nicht mehr so viel Zeit, aber es geht noch alles.",{"text":45368,"start":1934,"end":2013},"Es es passt noch auch Gott sei Dank, weil ich meine Videos nicht selber editieren muss, genauso mit dem Podcast.",{"text":45370,"start":2013,"end":2108},"Das ist ganz hilfreich, wenn man jemanden hat, der es einem abnimmt und man dann Zeit hat, weiter Content zu caten oder zu contributen oder, oder, oder.",83,{"sentences":45373,"speaker":192,"num_words":45376,"start":2113,"end":2150},[45374],{"text":45375,"start":2113,"end":2150},"Macht das dein Co Host, der Michel Thiessen oder",9,{"sentences":45378,"speaker":398,"num_words":45388,"start":2154,"end":2523},[45379,45381,45383,45384,45386],{"text":45380,"start":2154,"end":2161},"Nee, tatsächlich.",{"text":45382,"start":2161,"end":2306},"Wir haben 'n Detektanton Editor für seine Autorin, genau, Nikki macht das für uns und macht's aber auch gleich alles so an der Hand, sowohl meinen Youtube Channel als auch die Podcasts, als auch 'n bisschen was für Void Zero.",{"text":2314,"start":2311,"end":2312},{"text":45385,"start":2312,"end":2357},"Da haben wir jemanden, der mit dem technischen Verständnis ganz gut dabei ist.",{"text":45387,"start":2360,"end":2523},"Und ist sonst son bisschen als als Editor, jeder kann ja theoretisch Podcasts so über Allgemeines editieren, aber manchmal ist dann ganz gut okay, man versteht zumindest den Zusammenhang im Gespräch oder bei 'nem Tutorial so, ja okay, wo muss ich jetzt reinzoomen, wo ist der Fokus?",103,{"sentences":45390,"speaker":398,"num_words":45393,"start":2527,"end":2564},[45391],{"text":45392,"start":2527,"end":2564},"Da da haben wir auf jeden Fall jemanden gut mit am Start.",12,{"sentences":45395,"speaker":192,"num_words":45290,"start":2564,"end":2617},[45396,45398],{"text":45397,"start":2564,"end":2579},"Ja, ist sehr wertvoll.",{"text":45399,"start":2583,"end":2617},"Bei uns ist das der Carlo auch Shoutout an Carlo.",{"sentences":45401,"speaker":398,"num_words":45404,"start":2617,"end":2636},[45402],{"text":45403,"start":2617,"end":2636},"Grüße ihn raus, genau.",4,{"sentences":45406,"speaker":192,"num_words":45290,"start":2636,"end":2683},[45407],{"text":45408,"start":2636,"end":2683},"Die Leute sind machen viel und hören viel und sind aber sehr im Hintergrund.",{"sentences":45410,"speaker":398,"num_words":45342,"start":2687,"end":2910},[45411,45413,45415,45417,45419],{"text":45412,"start":2687,"end":2748},"Das ist so die ja, ich sag mal, der undankbarste Job so in 'ner Art und Weise.",{"text":45414,"start":2748,"end":2778},"Wenn alles klappt, ist so, ja, alles cool.",{"text":45416,"start":2778,"end":2837},"Und wenn was nicht denkt, denkst Du so, ah ja, hätte man ja besser machen können.",{"text":45418,"start":2841,"end":2886},"Das ist so bisschen wie der der MC auf Konferenzen, ist halt ähnlich so.",{"text":45420,"start":2890,"end":2910},"Ja, fühl ich mal auf jeden Fall.",{"sentences":45422,"speaker":398,"num_words":45426,"start":2915,"end":2990},[45423,45425],{"text":45424,"start":2915,"end":2986},"Große Shoutdown an alle Leute, die hinter den den Podcasts und Channels und Co sitzen, das Ganze editieren und produzieren.",{"text":2992,"start":2986,"end":2990},21,{"sentences":45428,"speaker":192,"num_words":45435,"start":2994,"end":3152},[45429,45431,45433],{"text":45430,"start":2994,"end":3058},"Ja, wir haben jetzt schon viele irgendwie Buzzwords gehört mit und Vide Zero, aber es geht heute was anderes.",{"text":45432,"start":3058,"end":3080},"Und zwar möchten wir über sprechen.",{"text":45434,"start":3084,"end":3152},"Und vielleicht erst mal, Alex, kannst Du uns mal sagen, was ist über und wie bist Du da beteiligst?",44,{"sentences":45437,"speaker":398,"num_words":45447,"start":3156,"end":3559},[45438,45439,45441,45443,45445],{"text":786,"start":3156,"end":3157},{"text":45440,"start":3161,"end":3236},"Wir fangen am besten mal ganz, also ich such mal bisschen raus, so mäßig, dann können wir in die die Details reingehen.",{"text":45442,"start":3240,"end":3314},"Und zwar, wenn man jetzt in 1 modernen Webeentwicklungswelt anfängt, sagt, okay, ich lern 'n bisschen JavaScript, HTML, CSS.",{"text":45444,"start":3319,"end":3374},"Klar, man startet vielleicht, okay, ich hab 'n HTML Dokument, ich kann da bisschen JavaScript reinschreiben.",{"text":45446,"start":3374,"end":3559},"Aber sobald man irgend 'n Framework benutzt, tatsächlich bis auf View, weil das kann man auch genauso noch benutzen, sagen, ich lad das über son Skript Tag rein, einfach als CDN und kann dann reinstarten, wie man's früher mit JQUERY gemacht hat und natürlich weniger Kilobyte und mehr orientiert.",107,{"sentences":45449,"speaker":398,"num_words":45460,"start":3563,"end":3829},[45450,45452,45454,45456,45458],{"text":45451,"start":3563,"end":3636},"Aber ansonsten natürlich, wenn man irgendwas baut, auch 'n View geht das mit 10 Gefile Komponenten, dann irgendwie reactangulas wählt.",{"text":45453,"start":3636,"end":3739},"Man hat eigentlich immer eine Art Bild Step, weil natürlich man will dann das JSX oder die Komponenten oder das Typescript ja dann irgendwie in Javacript kommentieren.",{"text":45455,"start":3743,"end":3771},"Und da wird das natürlich, man durchläuft einige Schritte.",{"text":45457,"start":3771,"end":3812},"Man will vielleicht so Sachen machen, wie welche Browser mich supporten?",{"text":45459,"start":3817,"end":3829},"Möchte ich Sachen umtransformieren?",71,{"sentences":45462,"speaker":398,"num_words":45472,"start":3833,"end":4404},[45463,45465,45467,45468,45470],{"text":45464,"start":3833,"end":3861},"Und da ist eigentlich alles der Banner für zuständig.",{"text":45466,"start":3865,"end":4080},"Oder in anderen Sprachen ist so, ja, der Compiler son Rust oder ze oder so, sag ich, okay, ich transformier das von der eigentlichen Sprache in Maschinencode und hier ist halt von der eigentlichen Sprache wie type Skript, Viewsing a File Components, Svelt und so weiter und so weiter insgesamt zu Javascript, weil der Browser kann ja kein type Skript.",{"text":786,"start":4084,"end":4085},{"text":45469,"start":4088,"end":4198},"Und ich glaub, da kann man ganz gut einsteigen, so der Bundler hat irgendwie ganz viele Aufgaben und in der Regel im besten Fall nehmen es die Leute gar nicht so wahr.",{"text":45471,"start":4198,"end":4404},"Die haben dann ihr Tool, in der Regel Veed oder früher noch Webpack einige Nutzer, vielleicht auch RSPacks sind so die die beliebten Tools, vielleicht auch Parcel hier und da, die die Build Tools, die dann im im Hintergrund 'n Band da laufen haben, der das Ganze dann macht, sowohl zur Dev- als auch zur Produktionszeit.",158,{"sentences":45474,"speaker":192,"num_words":45481,"start":4408,"end":4502},[45475,45477,45479],{"text":45476,"start":4408,"end":4450},"Und Du hast ja grad schon gesagt, okay, es gibt schon viele Buntler.",{"text":45478,"start":4454,"end":4477},"Was macht jetzt oder was unterscheidet Rollan?",{"text":45480,"start":4481,"end":4502},"Also warum habt ihr den entwickelt?",26,{"sentences":45483,"speaker":398,"num_words":45494,"start":4506,"end":4925},[45484,45486,45488,45490,45492],{"text":45485,"start":4506,"end":4651},"Genau, auch da, ich versuch mal 'n bisschen rauszuzoomen, weil wenn man jetzt sich so die moderne Webenwicklungslandschaft anguckt, dann hat man eigentlich für jedes moderne Framework außer für NextJRS, das ist son bisschen der Outlier, ein Bild Tool, nämlich Veed.",{"text":45487,"start":4655,"end":4736},"Das hat sich in den letzten Jahren, so letzten Jahren, das ist schon 'n paar mehr Jahre her, eigentlich sehr populär gesteigert.",{"text":45489,"start":4740,"end":4807},"Eigentlich nutzt jeder wie, das dauert Leute of Next Jazz, weil bei Russell, die setzen auf Webpack und Turbopack.",{"text":45491,"start":4811,"end":4881},"Wenn das dann auch endlich ist, in Dev läuft es mittlerweile, aber ich glaub, 3, 4 Tests fehlen noch.",{"text":45493,"start":4881,"end":4925},"Es gibt sone Seite dot com, die das ganz gut anzeigt.",112,{"sentences":45496,"speaker":192,"num_words":45347,"start":4925,"end":4954},[45497],{"text":45498,"start":4925,"end":4954},"Das ist der ist das der Successor von",{"sentences":45500,"speaker":398,"num_words":45510,"start":4957,"end":5276},[45501,45502,45504,45506,45508],{"text":786,"start":4957,"end":4958},{"text":45503,"start":4958,"end":5009},"Ist auch von Tobias, also von dem eigentlich mit der von von Wepper gebaut.",{"text":45505,"start":5009,"end":5182},"Da war die Idee son bisschen das, was, ich sag mal, rodern, aber auch so was wie 'n RS Pack ist, ist sagen, okay, wir bauen das in 'ner anderen Sprache, weil schneller und es soll halt ganz viel Sachen können und im Idealfall auch eine öffentliche API haben.",{"text":45507,"start":5186,"end":5246},"Das also die öffentliche API gibt's noch nicht und wie gesagt, es fehlen halt auch noch für NextJS selber.",{"text":45509,"start":5250,"end":5276},"Das ist aber noch mal eine andere Geschichte.",91,{"sentences":45512,"speaker":398,"num_words":45523,"start":5281,"end":5697},[45513,45515,45517,45519,45521],{"text":45514,"start":5281,"end":5304},"Letztendlich kommen wir zum Punkt zurück.",{"text":45516,"start":5304,"end":5362},"Eigentlich nutzt fast jeder Veat, das ist son bisschen der ja die Infrastruktur der modernen Webentwicklung.",{"text":45518,"start":5366,"end":5400},"Und Veat an sich nutzt im Hintergrund 2 unterschiedliche Bundler.",{"text":45520,"start":5404,"end":5544},"Das liegt daran, dass ja, wenn man das noch kennt irgendwie früher von Webhack, es hat alles 'n bisschen gedauert, der Dev Server wird gestartet, dann wartet man vielleicht im besten Fall 30 Sekunden, ansonsten 'n paar Minuten, bis alles läuft.",{"text":45522,"start":5544,"end":5697},"Liegt daran, dass Webhack selber erst mal sagt, okay, für, ich muss keine Optimierung machen, keine, aber ich muss trotzdem alles wandeln, zu sagen, okay, so was wie zu JavaScript oder coffee Skript machst Du damals noch oder parkt zu HTML und so weiter.",117,{"sentences":45525,"speaker":398,"num_words":45536,"start":5701,"end":6024},[45526,45528,45530,45532,45534],{"text":45527,"start":5701,"end":5831},"Und Veed, Evan, der auch Ersteller von View hat Veed entwickelt, weil er gedacht hat, okay, so die Developer Experience vom View Seal Eye und vom von allem View Entwickler ist ja okay, aber könnte besser gehen.",{"text":45529,"start":5831,"end":5882},"Und hat dann gemerkt, okay, die der Ansatz zu sagen, ich mach das andersrum.",{"text":45531,"start":5886,"end":5933},"Ich habe sonen Entry File und alles Weitere regel ich mit dynamischen Imports.",{"text":45533,"start":5933,"end":5991},"Also ich sag effektiv, ich lad nicht alles vorab, sondern ich mach das alles komplett dynamisch.",{"text":45535,"start":5995,"end":6024},"Geht schnell, die Browser hat mittlerweile Kompatibilität dafür.",88,{"sentences":45538,"speaker":398,"num_words":45549,"start":6024,"end":6259},[45539,45541,45543,45545,45547],{"text":45540,"start":6024,"end":6071},"Und das ist auch immer sone Frage, ne, warum hat man's früher nicht gemacht?",{"text":45542,"start":6071,"end":6101},"Weil Kompatibilität den Browser zum Beispiel gefehlt hat.",{"text":45544,"start":6101,"end":6155},"Und es gab auch andere Tools, WMR, Snowpack, die so in die Richtung ging.",{"text":45546,"start":6155,"end":6187},"Ja, und Vita hat sich da son bisschen durchgesetzt.",{"text":45548,"start":6191,"end":6259},"Und damit ist der Dev Server halt superschnell, weil's eben kein gebandelter Dev Server ist, sondern es ist mehr oder weniger anbandelt.",67,{"sentences":45551,"speaker":398,"num_words":45460,"start":6263,"end":6525},[45552,45554,45556,45558,45560],{"text":45553,"start":6263,"end":6364},"Und dafür wird Airsbild genutzt, basiert auf Go, zum Beispiel gewisse Dependencies zu prewandeln oder type zu stripmen, also das Nötigste zu machen, die Dependencies bereitzustellen.",{"text":45555,"start":6364,"end":6408},"Aber dann ist halt wirklich ein Request pro Dependency im Dev Server.",{"text":45557,"start":6412,"end":6469},"Und das geht halt recht schnell, weil gut, man muss halt keine großen CPU Zyklen drauf verwenden.",{"text":45559,"start":6469,"end":6521},"Man lädt das einfach nur runter, da es alles lokal ist, geht es ganz gut.",{"text":2314,"start":6521,"end":6525},{"sentences":45562,"speaker":398,"num_words":45573,"start":6529,"end":6822},[45563,45565,45567,45569,45571],{"text":45564,"start":6529,"end":6577},"Und dann in Produktion, wenn man das Ganze wirklich bauen möchte, wird roll up genutzt.",{"text":45566,"start":6581,"end":6602},"Bisschen Verwirrung, Rollup, Rolldown, ne.",{"text":45568,"start":6602,"end":6633},"Sieht auch, wo der Name son bisschen herkommt.",{"text":45570,"start":6637,"end":6717},"Hat auch den einfachen Grund, also IS Bild ist, ich sag mal, zum Teil, aber zum Teil auch einfach 'n sehr kleinen Scope.",{"text":45572,"start":6721,"end":6822},"Rollup kann 'n bisschen besser sagen, okay, ich möcht zum Beispiel meine Chunks etwas anders anlegen, ist aber auch sehr limitiert, hat aber auch 'n großes Plug in Ecosystem.",80,{"sentences":45575,"speaker":398,"num_words":45584,"start":6826,"end":7032},[45576,45578,45580,45582],{"text":45577,"start":6826,"end":6873},"So AS Bild hat nur sehr begrenzt Plugins, aber Rollup für alles mögliche Plugins.",{"text":45579,"start":6873,"end":6935},"Die API ist sehr schön, ist 'n sehr freundliches Ökosystem, auch im Vergleich zu anderen Bundler wie Webhack.",{"text":45581,"start":6940,"end":6975},"Deswegen wurde das Ganze da für genutzt, Sachen einfach zu vereinfachen.",{"text":45583,"start":6975,"end":7032},"Und ist auch sehr gut, was so Optimierung angeht, Dead Code Elimination und so weiter.",58,{"sentences":45586,"speaker":192,"num_words":45376,"start":7035,"end":7067},[45587],{"text":45588,"start":7035,"end":7067},"Das View in System ist auch davon inspiriert, oder?",{"sentences":45590,"speaker":398,"num_words":45404,"start":7067,"end":7083},[45591],{"text":45592,"start":7067,"end":7083},"Wie Genau, auch das.",{"sentences":45594,"speaker":192,"num_words":398,"start":7087,"end":7093},[45595],{"text":45596,"start":7087,"end":7093},"Auch richtig.",{"sentences":45598,"speaker":398,"num_words":45573,"start":7097,"end":7378},[45599,45601,45603,45605,45607],{"text":45600,"start":7097,"end":7108},"Yes, richtig, richtig.",{"text":45602,"start":7108,"end":7191},"Und Du musst ja im Endeffekt, wenn Du 'n wie Plug in schreibst, im Hintergrund ja auch Rollup und DS Bild son bisschen Ja.",{"text":45604,"start":7194,"end":7251},"Ich sag mal, beides beides nutzen, je nachdem, ob Du was für Dev brauchst oder nicht.",{"text":45606,"start":7251,"end":7290},"Aber genau ist auf jeden Fall davon inspiriert und ist die API.",{"text":45608,"start":7294,"end":7378},"Und da gibt's noch Plug in, das ist eigentlich auch eine ganz schöne Sache, wo die Idee ist son bisschen das J-Query für die Bundler.",{"sentences":45610,"speaker":398,"num_words":45621,"start":7381,"end":7587},[45611,45613,45615,45617,45619],{"text":45612,"start":7381,"end":7432},"Also ich schreibe ein Plug in und das läuft dann in von irgendwie Webhack bis bis Rolldown.",{"text":45614,"start":7436,"end":7461},"Das ist eigentlich auch 'n ganz netter Approach.",{"text":45616,"start":7461,"end":7522},"Gibt's natürlich an den Sachen, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Hook, die gibt's nur 'n zum Beispiel.",{"text":45618,"start":7526,"end":7568},"Aber das ist eine Möglichkeit, Plug ins zu schreiben, die halt überlaufen.",{"text":45620,"start":7572,"end":7587},"Das nur als als Einschub.",60,{"sentences":45623,"speaker":398,"num_words":45628,"start":7591,"end":7657},[45624,45626],{"text":45625,"start":7591,"end":7642},"Kann man's auf jeden Fall, wenn man als Plug in Autor sich das Ganze anschauen möchte.",{"text":45627,"start":7642,"end":7657},"Ist recht, recht nützlich.",20,{"sentences":45630,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":7661,"end":7662},[45631],{"text":2314,"start":7661,"end":7662},{"sentences":45633,"speaker":398,"num_words":45549,"start":7666,"end":7906},[45634,45636,45638,45640,45642],{"text":45635,"start":7666,"end":7692},"Genau und Veed nutzt eben diese 2 Bander.",{"text":45637,"start":7696,"end":7778},"Ja, und dann gibt's natürlich so ein Problem oder mehrere Probleme, weil ist erst mal sehr cool, Viet ist irgendwann im Enterprise angekommen.",{"text":45639,"start":7782,"end":7803},"Das dauert ja immer son kleines bisschen.",{"text":45641,"start":7807,"end":7902},"Und dann hat man aber gemerkt, dass zum einen, ja gut, die Bild dauern natürlich recht lang dann irgendwann, grade wenn irgendwie son Shopify dann mal Sachen baut.",{"text":2314,"start":7902,"end":7906},{"sentences":45644,"speaker":398,"num_words":45653,"start":7909,"end":8267},[45645,45647,45649,45651],{"text":45646,"start":7909,"end":7949},"Und auf der anderen Seite der Dev Server, der anbandelt Mode sozusagen.",{"text":45648,"start":7953,"end":8093},"Der hat 'n bisschen Probleme, wenn Du halt nicht nur irgendwie 10 oder 100, sondern vielleicht so 1000 bis 10000 Probanden und Dependencies hast, weil dann hast Du wirklich ein Profile und das ist halt bei Enterprise schon ja, dann doch einiges.",{"text":45650,"start":8093,"end":8220},"Plus wenn Du noch sagst, Du hast irgendwie 'n Proxy, so Corporate World, ne, selbst wenn es irgendwie lokal läuft, dann geht jeder da durch und dann ist der Dev Server Start-up einfach, ja, es dauert.",{"text":45652,"start":8225,"end":8267},"Produktionsbild kein Problem, aber Du willst ja auch Features shampoo was bauen.",102,{"sentences":45655,"speaker":192,"num_words":45660,"start":8271,"end":8326},[45656,45658],{"text":45657,"start":8271,"end":8307},"Wir sind genau, wir sind bei, ich glaub, 360 falls ungefähr.",{"text":45659,"start":8307,"end":8326},"Wir haben schon so 10 Sekunden",17,{"sentences":45662,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":8330,"end":8336},[45663],{"text":45664,"start":8330,"end":8336},"Okay, ja.",{"sentences":45666,"speaker":192,"num_words":45393,"start":8341,"end":8386},[45667,45669,45671],{"text":45668,"start":8341,"end":8355},"Erste Start up Plan.",{"text":45670,"start":8355,"end":8375},"Haben Erster natürlich superschnell, Ja.",{"text":45672,"start":8378,"end":8386},"Aber so einmal.",{"sentences":45674,"speaker":398,"num_words":45684,"start":8390,"end":8496},[45675,45677,45679,45681,45682],{"text":45676,"start":8390,"end":8395},"Genau, richtig.",{"text":45678,"start":8395,"end":8414},"Und das ist halt 'n Problem.",{"text":45680,"start":8418,"end":8483},"Und dann natürlich das andere, die Inkonsisten zwischen und wenn Du natürlich 2 unterschiedliche Tool benutzt, ist das schwierig.",{"text":2314,"start":8487,"end":8488},{"text":45683,"start":8492,"end":8496},"Und genau.",30,{"sentences":45686,"speaker":398,"num_words":45697,"start":8499,"end":8738},[45687,45689,45691,45693,45695],{"text":45688,"start":8499,"end":8544},"Ein eine Möglichkeit, das zu vermeiden, ist natürlich zu sagen, man nutzt einen Bandler.",{"text":45690,"start":8548,"end":8614},"Und jetzt könnte man sagen, okay, warum kontribitiert man nicht einfach zu Roll-up oder zu S-Belt und macht das Ganze?",{"text":45692,"start":8618,"end":8661},"Weil ist ja alles Open Source und das ist auf jeden Fall eine Möglichkeit.",{"text":45694,"start":8665,"end":8701},"Ist auch 'n guter Punkt, dass Roll-up eben genau das nicht ist.",{"text":45696,"start":8701,"end":8738},"Ist nicht einfach wir neben, sorry, Rolldown das nicht ist.",70,{"sentences":45699,"speaker":398,"num_words":45710,"start":8738,"end":9011},[45700,45702,45704,45706,45708],{"text":45701,"start":8738,"end":8765},"Wir nehmen nämlich einfach Roll-up und Rustefinders, ja.",{"text":45703,"start":8765,"end":8818},"Rolldown in Rust beschrieben und nimmt aber son bisschen das Beste der vorherigen Tools mit.",{"text":45705,"start":8818,"end":8937},"Also sowohl von eher das Bild, was so Verhalten und Co angeht, auch natürlich die Schnelligkeit, von Roll-up, also da die API, das Plug in Ökosystem und sogar Webhack, was so Chunk Optimierung angeht.",{"text":45707,"start":8937,"end":8959},"Weil Webhack kann das richtig, richtig gut.",{"text":45709,"start":8959,"end":9011},"Da gibt's dieses Feature, zu sagen, okay, ich möchte meine Chunks in bestimmten Gruppen haben.",79,{"sentences":45712,"speaker":398,"num_words":856,"start":9011,"end":9207},[45713,45715,45717,45718,45720],{"text":45714,"start":9011,"end":9028},"Ich kann da Limits festsetzen.",{"text":45716,"start":9032,"end":9049},"Das ist eigentlich recht, recht schön.",{"text":2314,"start":9053,"end":9054},{"text":45719,"start":9057,"end":9131},"Genau, und deswegen war dann die Idee zu sagen, gut, okay, Rowdown, wir schreiben das Ganze in Rust, damit ist es sehr schnell.",{"text":45721,"start":9135,"end":9207},"Und das Ziel ist zu sagen, wir haben einen Bundler, wie gesagt, das Beste aus allen Welten der vorherigen existierenden Bundler verbindet.",{"sentences":45723,"speaker":398,"num_words":45734,"start":9211,"end":9426},[45724,45726,45728,45730,45732],{"text":45725,"start":9211,"end":9270},"Schneller ist als alles aufm Markt, ist auch 'n RS Pack, was zum Beispiel in in geschrieben ist.",{"text":45727,"start":9270,"end":9302},"Da ist Road dann so dreimal schneller ungefähr, ne.",{"text":45729,"start":9302,"end":9339},"2 bis 4, je nachdem welche Benchmarks, deswegen so ungefähr 3.",{"text":45731,"start":9343,"end":9384},"Kann auch gern noch mal die Benchmarks verlinken, wenn's sich mal interessiert.",{"text":45733,"start":9388,"end":9426},"Sind die werde aber freuen, sich aber oh, so schnell, ja.",61,{"sentences":45736,"speaker":398,"num_words":45745,"start":9426,"end":9494},[45737,45739,45741,45743],{"text":45738,"start":9426,"end":9437},"Auf jeden Fall.",{"text":45740,"start":9437,"end":9455},"Für alles eine eine Gitterbrebo.",{"text":45742,"start":9459,"end":9468},"Ist alles öffentlich.",{"text":45744,"start":9472,"end":9494},"Kann man auch gern selber laufen lassen.",18,{"sentences":45747,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":9494,"end":9498},[45748],{"text":2314,"start":9494,"end":9498},{"sentences":45750,"speaker":398,"num_words":45388,"start":9502,"end":9862},[45751,45753,45755,45757,45759],{"text":45752,"start":9502,"end":9536},"Ja, und dann war die okay, man man unified den Banner.",{"text":45754,"start":9540,"end":9611},"ES Bild hat halt verschiedene Verhaltensweisen, die übernommen werden und verschiedene Features, so was wie ich kann Sachen incheckten und definen.",{"text":45756,"start":9615,"end":9695},"Roll-up, wie gesagt, alle Plugins sollen idealerweise supportet werden oder man braucht sie vielleicht nicht mehr, weil sie schon in Rolldown mit drin sind.",{"text":45758,"start":9695,"end":9782},"Das ist aber das Ziel, wenn man irgendwann sagt, okay, da kommen wir so zum, ne, übergeordneten Ziel, der Rolldown soll irgend eine Standardbander von werden.",{"text":45760,"start":9786,"end":9862},"Die Leute wollen ja nicht alle ihre Projekte migrieren, sondern idealerweise irgendwann die Media Version wird gebamt und fertig, es geht.",{"sentences":45762,"speaker":398,"num_words":45621,"start":9866,"end":10083},[45763,45765,45767,45769,45771],{"text":45764,"start":9866,"end":9886},"Das das wär halt so ganz schön.",{"text":45766,"start":9889,"end":9919},"Und ja, da ist man entsprechend dran, das zu entwickeln.",{"text":45768,"start":9923,"end":9965},"Rolldown ist aktuell 'n Beta 11, sowas in Richtung 1 Punkt 0.",{"text":45770,"start":9965,"end":9979},"Punkt 0, Beta 11.",{"text":45772,"start":9983,"end":10083},"Und es gibt sogar schon, das ist jetzt die große Neuerung vor 'n paar Tagen zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme gewesen, eine Technical Preview von Veed mit Rolldown.",{"sentences":45774,"speaker":398,"num_words":45785,"start":10083,"end":10300},[45775,45777,45779,45781,45783],{"text":45776,"start":10083,"end":10107},"Nennt sich Rolldown Veed ist 'n Paket.",{"text":45778,"start":10111,"end":10199},"Es gibt 'n sehr einfaches Migration Guide, effektiv einfach nur Alliascen oder über Package override, wenn man dann noch unter hat, die die mit nutzen.",{"text":45780,"start":10199,"end":10216},"Und dann kann man's austesten.",{"text":45782,"start":10220,"end":10280},"Und tatsächlich die Bild Speed improvements, die sind so Faktor drei- bis sechzehnfach, ne, nicht Prozent.",{"text":45784,"start":10284,"end":10300},"Also das ist schon recht schnell.",59,{"sentences":45787,"speaker":398,"num_words":45798,"start":10303,"end":10610},[45788,45790,45792,45794,45796],{"text":45789,"start":10303,"end":10386},"Wir hatten einige Tests mit Early Adoptern, also beispielsweise GitLab hat auf, also Open Source gibt's 'n Merch Request, das Ganze mal ausprobiert.",{"text":45791,"start":10390,"end":10457},"Die haben jetzt keine riesigen Speed improvements, weil die recht kleine Bilds haben, aber bis zu hundertmal weniger Memory Consion.",{"text":45793,"start":10461,"end":10487},"Das ist halt auch echt echt eine Nummer.",{"text":45795,"start":10487,"end":10552},"Wo sagen, ja, okay, Speed ist ganz nett, aber auf einmal so CI Kosten, wir brauchen kleinere Maschinen.",{"text":45797,"start":10556,"end":10610},"Und ansonsten so als bekannte Open Source Applikationen auf direct basierte, so sechzehnfach schnellere Bildes.",84,{"sentences":45800,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":10614,"end":10627},[45801],{"text":45802,"start":10614,"end":10627},"Das ist halt ganz nett.",5,{"sentences":45805,"speaker":192,"num_words":45628,"start":10631,"end":10700},[45806,45808],{"text":45807,"start":10631,"end":10661},"Und diese Memory Optimization, die kam einfach durch Rust.",{"text":45809,"start":10661,"end":10700},"Also Rust ist da so viel effizienter als Go oder was?",{"sentences":45811,"speaker":398,"num_words":45821,"start":10704,"end":10872},[45812,45814,45816,45818,45819],{"text":45813,"start":10704,"end":10725},"Also das ist ja effizienter als JavaScript.",{"text":45815,"start":10725,"end":10768},"Rollup ist ja ja JavaScript basieren und da geht's wirklich den den Bild.",{"text":45817,"start":10772,"end":10826},"Also grade aktuell, der aktuelle Stand von, ist noch mal ganz gut, dass Du's ansprichst.",{"text":2314,"start":10826,"end":10830},{"text":45820,"start":10830,"end":10872},"Da ist wirklich Optimierung für den den Bild Server, also für ich bilde.",49,{"sentences":45823,"speaker":398,"num_words":45827,"start":10876,"end":10996},[45824,45825],{"text":10879,"start":10876,"end":10877},{"text":45826,"start":10877,"end":10996},"Der Dev Server ist weiterhin erst mal, aber später kann man nachher noch 'n bisschen ausführen, möchten wir natürlich auch sonen wieder einführen, eben diese Probleme, die Enterprise und Größeapplikation hat, mit einzuschränken.",34,{"sentences":45829,"speaker":192,"num_words":45745,"start":11000,"end":11057},[45830],{"text":45831,"start":11000,"end":11057},"Aber man kann das dann einstellen, was man im Dev Server haben will, ob man's wandeln will oder",{"sentences":45833,"speaker":398,"num_words":45435,"start":11061,"end":11211},[45834,45836,45838],{"text":45835,"start":11061,"end":11089},"Jein, also erst mal wird das so sein, genau.",{"text":45837,"start":11092,"end":11177},"Effektiv, wir sind aktuell so in der Phase 1, wo wir sagen, es gibt dieses Technical Technical Preview von Roll on Bed, Leute können das austesten.",{"text":45839,"start":11177,"end":11211},"Idealerweise ist einfach nur 'n Drop and Replacement und.",{"sentences":45841,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":11215,"end":11216},[45842],{"text":2314,"start":11215,"end":11216},{"sentences":45844,"speaker":398,"num_words":45854,"start":11216,"end":11348},[45845,45847,45849,45851,45853],{"text":45846,"start":11216,"end":11238},"Wenn's Probleme gibt, raste gerne.",{"text":45848,"start":11242,"end":11268},"Also wir haben schon einiges ein Feedback erhalten.",{"text":45850,"start":11268,"end":11296},"Leute sind echt schnell, was das Fixen angeht.",{"text":45852,"start":11296,"end":11344},"Das ist auch ganz schön, wenn man da Leute hat, die da Vollzeit dran sitzen.",{"text":2314,"start":11344,"end":11348},37,{"sentences":45856,"speaker":398,"num_words":1011,"start":11348,"end":11595},[45857,45859,45860,45862,45864],{"text":45858,"start":11348,"end":11443},"Ist halt ein großer Vorteil, dass wir das bei Volicero ermöglichen können, dass halt Leute Vollzeit an dem Bundler und auch den darunter linken Twist sitzen.",{"text":706,"start":11446,"end":11447},{"text":45861,"start":11447,"end":11505},"Und dann gibt's so Phase 2, das sind so, ist eigentlich so Phase 1 Punkt 5 und 2.",{"text":45863,"start":11509,"end":11573},"Der soll als Opt in erst mal verfügbar sein, auch da, das zu stabilisieren, zu testen, zu gucken.",{"text":45865,"start":11577,"end":11595},"Da kann man dann auch wählen.",{"sentences":45867,"speaker":398,"num_words":45878,"start":11599,"end":11913},[45868,45870,45872,45874,45876],{"text":45869,"start":11599,"end":11712},"Und dann irgendwann, wenn sich stabil ist, ohne den Full Bundle Mode erst mal oder auch wenn der stabil ist zuerst, aber wahrscheinlich erst mal ohne, dann wird das Ganze in selber reingegeben.",{"text":45871,"start":11716,"end":11746},"Zu sagen, okay, in 7 steht aktuell in Startlöchern.",{"text":45873,"start":11750,"end":11838},"In Feed 8 wird es dann so zumindest das Ziel, ne, sondern irgend 'ner weiteren Majorversion nicht 7 auf jeden Fall, das ist 'n bisschen zu kurz.",{"text":45875,"start":11838,"end":11897},"Wenn das alles gut getestet ist, keine Probleme und weitere Features implementiert sind, dann kann das losgehen.",{"text":45877,"start":11897,"end":11913},"Vor allem Optimierung, ne.",90,{"sentences":45880,"speaker":398,"num_words":45371,"start":11913,"end":12190},[45881,45883,45885,45887,45889],{"text":45882,"start":11913,"end":11953},"Feature Complete ist es noch nicht komplett, ne, aber ist man dabei?",{"text":45884,"start":11953,"end":12022},"Es gibt so ein, 2 Sachen, grade so für Framework und Plug in Autoren, die vielleicht noch nicht implementiert sind.",{"text":45886,"start":12022,"end":12056},"Das hält einen in der Regel keinen vom Testen ab.",{"text":45888,"start":12060,"end":12140},"Genau und dann irgendwann Phase 3 wird dann der Punkt sein, wo auch der Full Bundle Mode als Default ist und man gar keinen mehr hat.",{"text":45890,"start":12140,"end":12190},"Das liegt daran, dass son bisschen auch da wieder das Ziel ist Best of Boefords.",{"sentences":45892,"speaker":398,"num_words":45903,"start":12194,"end":12460},[45893,45895,45897,45899,45901],{"text":45894,"start":12194,"end":12241},"Für kleine und mittlere Applikationen soll es trotzdem superschnell sein, ja, weil rasant basiert und optimiert.",{"text":45896,"start":12246,"end":12299},"Heißt, wenn ich nur keine Ahnung paar Fires hab, dann lässt sich das ganz gut durchlaufen.",{"text":45898,"start":12299,"end":12337},"Dann ist es egal, ob ich das anbandelt hab oder nicht.",{"text":45900,"start":12337,"end":12363},"Die Start Time soll richtig, richtig schnell sein.",{"text":45902,"start":12367,"end":12460},"Und wenn ich das Ganze aber in größeren Applikationen hab, dann hilft halt das Bundle oder der full Bundle Mode einfach zu sagen, ich hab 'n deutlich schnelleren Dev Server.",81,{"sentences":45905,"speaker":192,"num_words":45260,"start":12463,"end":12472},[45906,45907],{"text":2314,"start":12463,"end":12464},{"text":45908,"start":12464,"end":12472},"Sehr cool.",{"sentences":45910,"speaker":398,"num_words":45915,"start":12475,"end":12498},[45911,45913,45914],{"text":45912,"start":12475,"end":12488},"Ja, viele Informationen jetzt.",{"text":706,"start":12492,"end":12493},{"text":1433,"start":12497,"end":12498},6,{"sentences":45917,"speaker":192,"num_words":45697,"start":12498,"end":12751},[45918,45920,45922,45924],{"text":45919,"start":12498,"end":12541},"ja, es ist es ist aber auch 'n großes Ding, was ihr macht.",{"text":45921,"start":12541,"end":12600},"Also ihr habt euch ja auch echt 'n großes Ziel gesetzt, das Beste aus verschiedenen Welten einzubringen.",{"text":45923,"start":12604,"end":12664},"Und ich frag mich auch so in der Entwicklung von Rolldown, war das schwer, das alles mit reinzubringen?",{"text":45925,"start":12668,"end":12751},"Oder ist es dadurch, dass es schon irgendwo existiert, relativ straight forward, das dann in ein Produkt, in eine Library zu gießen?",{"sentences":45927,"speaker":398,"num_words":45903,"start":12755,"end":13033},[45928,45930,45932,45934,45936],{"text":45929,"start":12755,"end":12771},"Ja, also es ist recht schwierig.",{"text":45931,"start":12774,"end":12808},"Auch da Disclaimer, ne, ich schreib selber jetzt nicht wirklich viel.",{"text":45933,"start":12812,"end":12861},"Ich kontribute dich zur Rolldown oder den Tools darunter im Sinne von, ne, Hardcore Optimierung.",{"text":45935,"start":12865,"end":12905},"Da gibt's viele Leute in unserem Team, die da richtig gut drin sind.",{"text":45937,"start":12908,"end":13033},"Ich bleib dann eher vielleicht zu den Plug ins, die noch performancemäßig zu verbessern im Zusammenhang mit Rohdown, können wir auch noch nachher drüber quatschen oder so was wie 'n 'n paar kleine Änderungen, Verbesserung, Integration.",{"sentences":45939,"speaker":398,"num_words":45949,"start":13033,"end":13386},[45940,45942,45944,45946,45948],{"text":45941,"start":13033,"end":13132},"Aber ja, ist natürlich superschwierig, wenn man sagt, ich möchte so das Beste aus allen Welten und dann gibt's vielleicht Tools, die dann unterschiedliche Meinungen und Auffassung haben, ne.",{"text":45943,"start":13135,"end":13160},"An welchen Tools orientiert man sich dann letztendlich?",{"text":45945,"start":13164,"end":13245},"Und dann ist natürlich auch der Punkt so den Overhead zwischen, ich hab jetzt eine Sprache, Rust, da muss ich dann ganz viele Codemanipulationen machen.",{"text":45947,"start":13245,"end":13381},"Ich muss aus dem Code einen Abstract Syntext tree erstellen, ne, also die technische oder die schematische Aufarbeitung des Codes nicht einfach als String, sondern wirklich als Baum entsprechend mit welche Notes gibt's, wie sehen die aus?",{"text":2314,"start":13385,"end":13386},100,{"sentences":45951,"speaker":398,"num_words":1011,"start":13386,"end":13611},[45952,45954,45956,45958,45960],{"text":45953,"start":13386,"end":13402},"Ja, das ist natürlich nicht ohne.",{"text":45955,"start":13406,"end":13467},"Deswegen ist es auch super, wenn Leute das aktuell testen, sagen, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja Probleme oder irgendwas klappt nicht.",{"text":45957,"start":13470,"end":13529},"Und natürlich versuchen wir auch da nicht nur Performance aktuell, ist ist natürlich super, so Sechzehnfach ist superschön.",{"text":45959,"start":13533,"end":13606},"Da kommen natürlich noch deutlich mehr, sowohl builtime mäßig als auch einige Sachen, wo zum Beispiel Rollup richtig gut drin ist, ist, also Treeshaking.",{"text":2314,"start":13610,"end":13611},{"sentences":45962,"speaker":398,"num_words":45621,"start":13611,"end":13820},[45963,45965,45967,45969,45971],{"text":45964,"start":13611,"end":13669},"Zu sagen, ich hab Funktionen, Variablen, die sind ungenutzt, die möchte nicht mit ins Bundle reingeben.",{"text":45966,"start":13673,"end":13694},"Da arbeiten wir auch noch dran dann.",{"text":45968,"start":13694,"end":13742},"Da gibt's ganz viele Verbesserungen, wo wir noch das Bundle deutlich kleiner machen können.",{"text":45970,"start":13742,"end":13779},"Aber ja, insgesamt ist es auf jeden Fall keine einfache Leistung.",{"text":45972,"start":13779,"end":13820},"Es hilft natürlich, dass man sagt, wir müssen nicht von 0 anfangen.",{"sentences":45974,"speaker":398,"num_words":45984,"start":13824,"end":14005},[45975,45977,45979,45981,45982],{"text":45976,"start":13824,"end":13856},"Und sowohl Roller-up als auch ES Bild haben natürlich Testsuiten.",{"text":45978,"start":13860,"end":13910},"Es ist also auch der Agnes gut zu sagen, man weiß, welches Verhalten man möchte.",{"text":45980,"start":13910,"end":13943},"Dann kann man sich das entsprechend reinladen und dagegen implementieren.",{"text":2314,"start":13947,"end":13948},{"text":45983,"start":13948,"end":14005},"Aber genau, es gibt halt durchaus Situationen, wo man sagt, okay, wie sollen man bestimmte Sachen handeln?",53,{"sentences":45986,"speaker":398,"num_words":45994,"start":14009,"end":14177},[45987,45989,45991,45993],{"text":45988,"start":14009,"end":14059},"Natürlich auch das ganze Thema, ne, ESM versus CGS, die 2 Formate in Javascript.",{"text":45990,"start":14063,"end":14129},"Das ist eher mehr Legacy Format, was man eigentlich nicht mehr braucht, aber es halt trotzdem noch ganz viel gibt.",{"text":45992,"start":14129,"end":14172},"CGS und ESM, was eigentlich so die Zukunft ist, ja, Spezifikationen.",{"text":2642,"start":14176,"end":14177},46,{"sentences":45996,"speaker":192,"num_words":45260,"start":14181,"end":14189},[45997],{"text":45998,"start":14181,"end":14189},"unterstützt beides noch.",{"sentences":46000,"speaker":398,"num_words":45821,"start":14189,"end":14361},[46001,46002,46004,46006,46008],{"text":786,"start":14189,"end":14192},{"text":46003,"start":14196,"end":14214},"Liegt auch daran, so Kompatibilität first.",{"text":46005,"start":14218,"end":14223},"Ja, okay.",{"text":46007,"start":14227,"end":14257},"Idealerweise so meiner Meinung nach ESM ist die Zukunft.",{"text":46009,"start":14257,"end":14361},"Es gibt eigentlich keinen guten Grund mehr, CGS zu nutzen, außer man hat halt noch eine Minerversion, wo man sagt, okay, hier in der nächsten Major, dann ist noch ESM only.",{"sentences":46011,"speaker":398,"num_words":45460,"start":14365,"end":14614},[46012,46014,46016,46018,46020],{"text":46013,"start":14365,"end":14417},"Liegt daran, dass in Node selber man mittlerweile auch ECMA Skript Modules über nutzen kann.",{"text":46015,"start":14417,"end":14474},"Node 18 ist halt mittlerweile End of Life und ab Node 20 wurd das Ganze gebackported.",{"text":46017,"start":14478,"end":14540},"Heißt da sollte es ganz gut klappen, aber wie immer, dann gibt's Leute, die sagen, ja, was mit Electron?",{"text":46019,"start":14540,"end":14554},"Was ist mit VISCODEXtensions?",{"text":46021,"start":14558,"end":14614},"Also es ist halt leider nicht so einfach zu sagen, wir machen's nur ESM Only und fertig.",{"sentences":46023,"speaker":398,"num_words":958,"start":14614,"end":14837},[46024,46026,46028,46030,46032],{"text":46025,"start":14614,"end":14637},"Ich hoffe, wir kommen dahin irgendwann.",{"text":46027,"start":14637,"end":14667},"Es kann sich nur Jahrzehnte handeln, aber ja.",{"text":46029,"start":14667,"end":14717},"Und das sind auch alles so Themen und ja, es es ist tatsächlich sehr kompliziert.",{"text":46031,"start":14717,"end":14770},"Und dann geht's auch weiter, wenn man sich noch mal dieses Thema Abstract Syntext tree anschaut.",{"text":46033,"start":14774,"end":14837},"Es gibt viele Tools, die das machen, die sagen, ich nehm Code und pack das entsprechend zu 'n Syntax tree.",{"sentences":46035,"speaker":398,"num_words":46045,"start":14837,"end":15020},[46036,46038,46040,46042,46044],{"text":46037,"start":14837,"end":14868},"Dafür gibt's auch eine Spezifikation, nennt sich ES3.",{"text":46039,"start":14872,"end":14965},"Da halten sich die größten Parser und Code ran und auch die Leute, also zum Beispiel Linter erwarten dann 'n bestimmtes Format, das halt ES3 kompatibel ist.",{"text":46041,"start":14965,"end":14987},"Da sind wir auch ganz gut dabei.",{"text":46043,"start":14987,"end":15015},"Javascript ist komplett ESLINT, ESLINT ES3 kompatibel.",{"text":2314,"start":15019,"end":15020},50,{"sentences":46047,"speaker":398,"num_words":45329,"start":15020,"end":15327},[46048,46050,46052,46054],{"text":46049,"start":15020,"end":15065},"Type Script tatsächlich gestern die Meldung erhalten, dass das auch kompatibel ist.",{"text":46051,"start":15068,"end":15221},"Das ja, ist tatsächlich echt challenging, da sich einfach komplett zu allein und dann gibt's trotzdem noch Edge Cases und Probleme, wo wir dann wiederum zu den anderen Tools gehen und sagen, hier guck mal, wir haben das spezifikationstreu implementiert, aber hier gibt's 'n Bug.",{"text":46053,"start":15226,"end":15322},"Gab's auch son son Case, wo man das entsprechend rausgefunden hat und dann reportet hat, sich glaub Babel und auch anderen Tools gesagt, hier, das ist nicht ganz korrekt.",{"text":706,"start":15326,"end":15327},{"sentences":46056,"speaker":192,"num_words":46067,"start":15330,"end":15666},[46057,46059,46061,46063,46065],{"text":46058,"start":15330,"end":15444},"Was ich auch sehr herausfordernd, aber auch irgendwie beeindruckend fand, war, dass beim ersten Release von Rolldown, der ja im April 20 24 war, schon die 50 Contributer beteiligt waren.",{"text":46060,"start":15444,"end":15514},"Also das fand ich relativ viel fürn ersten Release und hab mich erstens gefragt, also woher kamen die ganzen Leute?",{"text":46062,"start":15514,"end":15578},"Das waren Also irgendwie denk ich mir, vielleicht kommen sie aus, aber das ist ja 'n Javascript Welt.",{"text":46064,"start":15578,"end":15597},"Woher kommen die Lust Leute?",{"text":46066,"start":15597,"end":15666},"Und auch wie strukturiert man das dann, wenn so viele Leute am Anfang, wo ja noch vieles offen ist, dabei sind?",94,{"sentences":46069,"speaker":192,"num_words":46072,"start":15670,"end":15705},[46070],{"text":46071,"start":15670,"end":15705},"Also wer hat dann da so die Flagge in der Hand?",11,{"sentences":46074,"speaker":398,"num_words":46085,"start":15709,"end":16004},[46075,46077,46079,46081,46083],{"text":46076,"start":15709,"end":15808},"Ja, ich war tatsächlich, also ich hab das damals auch verfolgt, war da aber auch nicht dabei in in dem Sinne, dass ich's ganz von der Programmiersicht betrachte hab.",{"text":46078,"start":15808,"end":15839},"Aber wo hätte Leute kommen, ist eigentlich ganz spannend.",{"text":46080,"start":15843,"end":15888},"Können wir auch noch drüber reden, das Thema ne, Unify Toolchain in Javascript.",{"text":46082,"start":15891,"end":15959},"Es gibt ja einige Projekte, die sagen, ja, lass mal 'n paar Sachen rastifyen, lass mal eine Toolchain für alles bauen.",{"text":46084,"start":15962,"end":16004},"Dass wir eigentlich nur im besten Fall ein Kommando haben, ist überall integriert.",85,{"sentences":46087,"speaker":398,"num_words":46098,"start":16004,"end":16383},[46088,46090,46092,46094,46096],{"text":46089,"start":16004,"end":16125},"Das ist son bisschen das Ziel von Void Zero als Firma, zu sagen, ja, wir brauchen uns nicht mal überlegen, welchen Formata, welchen Linder, welchen Bundler, welches Bildtour, welche Dokumentationsseite, welche Monorappe Support?",{"text":46091,"start":16129,"end":16241},"So einfach dieses Problem zu sagen, jetzt hab ich die Tools, jetzt pick ich mir die irgendwie zusammen und dann gibt's doch wieder Probleme, weil die mit dem Framework nicht funktionieren, das zu lösen.",{"text":46093,"start":16245,"end":16262},"Dann gab's vorher natürlich auch Projekte.",{"text":46095,"start":16267,"end":16316},"Rome ist, glaub ich, mit das Bekannteste, wo ja 'n bisschen Geld veruntert wurde.",{"text":46097,"start":16316,"end":16383},"Und dann gab's den, 'n Open Source Projekt, also Open Source, aber VCBAG und jetzt ist es Biom.",105,{"sentences":46100,"speaker":398,"num_words":45878,"start":16387,"end":16694},[46101,46103,46105,46107],{"text":46102,"start":16387,"end":16484},"Da kommen zum Beispiel einige Kontribute her, unser Engineering Bojenan, der für OXC, den, kommen wir auch drauf zurück, verantwortlich ist und da sehr, sehr viel macht.",{"text":46104,"start":16484,"end":16516},"Der ist zum Beispiel ursprünglich hat er viel zu zu.",{"text":46106,"start":16520,"end":16571},"Es gab viele Leute, die so aus der Turbopack und auch aus der RS Pack Richtung kamen.",{"text":46108,"start":16571,"end":16694},"Also einfach Leute, die schon in dem Umfeld son bisschen kollabiert haben und da eine gute Möglichkeit sagen, zu sagen, okay, hier können wir entsprechend ja Impact wo Sachen, wenn wir was was machen, was ausrichten.",{"sentences":46110,"speaker":192,"num_words":46119,"start":16698,"end":16878},[46111,46113,46115,46117],{"text":46112,"start":16698,"end":16795},"Ja, okay, das das klingt schon cool und Du sprichst ja auch für das Projekt, dass so viele Leute, die Ahnung haben, da zusammenkommen und versuchen, was Einheitliches zu bauen.",{"text":46114,"start":16798,"end":16820},"Aber ja, Du hast es eben schon erwähnt.",{"text":46116,"start":16820,"end":16860},"Ich glaub, man kann über fast nicht ohne OX sprechen, oder?",{"text":46118,"start":16860,"end":16878},"Es hängt sehr stark zusammen.",54,{"sentences":46121,"speaker":398,"num_words":45821,"start":16882,"end":17049},[46122,46124,46126,46128,46130],{"text":46123,"start":16882,"end":16887},"Ja, absolut.",{"text":46125,"start":16891,"end":16923},"Also da gehen wir jetzt noch mal eine Abstraktionsebene runter.",{"text":46127,"start":16923,"end":16966},"Wir haben schon gesagt, okay, jetzt der Average Web Dev nutzt irgendwie Veat.",{"text":46129,"start":16970,"end":17004},"So Veat nutzt irgendwann Rolldown, ne oder jetzt mit Roller Veat.",{"text":46131,"start":17004,"end":17049},"Okay, ja, ist klar, Leute kümmern sich in der Regel wenig den Bandler.",{"sentences":46133,"speaker":398,"num_words":46144,"start":17052,"end":17227},[46134,46136,46138,46140,46142],{"text":46135,"start":17052,"end":17098},"Aber den Bandler zu brauchen, braucht man natürlich auch irgendwie eine Art Foundation, ne.",{"text":46137,"start":17098,"end":17131},"Also Tools, so wenn man überlegt, was macht 'n Compiler?",{"text":46139,"start":17131,"end":17191},"Da hat irgendwie auch 'n Alexa und 'n Parser und so weiter im im im JavaScripts Universum.",{"text":46141,"start":17195,"end":17202},"Was braucht man?",{"text":46143,"start":17202,"end":17227},"Na ja, zum einen auch 'n Parser.",51,{"sentences":46146,"speaker":398,"num_words":1011,"start":17227,"end":17465},[46147,46149,46151,46153,46155],{"text":46148,"start":17227,"end":17274},"Wir möchten ganz gerne eben diese Files, diesen Codestrings in AST überführen.",{"text":46150,"start":17278,"end":17352},"Wir brauchen einen Transformer, dass man eben sagt, okay, man kann zum Beispiel sagen, ich möchte mein JSX transformieren, das können Plugins machen.",{"text":46152,"start":17352,"end":17400},"Kann aber auch der Bundler direkt, wenn man möchte oder der Compiler in dem Fall.",{"text":46154,"start":17402,"end":17448},"Dann geht's aber auch weiter so 'n Resolver, weil wirkt zeigt auf unterschiedliche Dateien.",{"text":46156,"start":17448,"end":17465},"Wir möchten die gern finden.",{"sentences":46158,"speaker":398,"num_words":46169,"start":17469,"end":17755},[46159,46161,46163,46165,46167],{"text":46160,"start":17469,"end":17490},"Gibt's auch wieder sehr viele unterschiedliche Spezifikationen.",{"text":46162,"start":17493,"end":17542},"Und dann guckt man, sieht okay, wäre auch noch ganz schön, gibt's also auch 'n Minifier.",{"text":46164,"start":17546,"end":17648},"Und was denk ich ganz interessant ist, dann für die wieder die Webentwickler, die jetzt nicht so tief in Bander und Compiler bauen Anführungsstrichen drin sind, Linter und Vormether, ja?",{"text":46166,"start":17648,"end":17740},"Tatsächlich in dieser Suit des Oxidation Compilers, da steckt auch 'n Linter namens Oxlint, der ist so 50 bis hundertmal schneller als er's Lindt.",{"text":46168,"start":17740,"end":17755},"Das ist schon ganz nett.",82,{"sentences":46171,"speaker":398,"num_words":45584,"start":17758,"end":17970},[46172,46174,46176,46178,46180],{"text":46173,"start":17758,"end":17801},"Und 'n Vormeter, der ist noch Work in progress zum Zeitpunkt der Aufnahme.",{"text":46175,"start":17806,"end":17828},"Oxformet, der so einfach pritja kompatibel sein.",{"text":46177,"start":17828,"end":17921},"Ja, und wer das Logo kennt, das ist son Anker, der ist braun, weil ja, ist ja alles in Rost geschrieben, so wie ich cool.",{"text":46179,"start":17921,"end":17961},"Es ist 'n rostiger Anker und wie entsteht Rost durch Oxidierung?",{"text":46181,"start":17965,"end":17970},"Deswegen Mhm.",{"sentences":46183,"speaker":398,"num_words":45660,"start":17974,"end":18029},[46184,46186],{"text":46185,"start":17974,"end":17978},"Oxidation Compiler.",{"text":46187,"start":17983,"end":18029},"Daher der Name, es ist immer noch nach wie vor eine eine coole Idee gewesen.",{"sentences":46189,"speaker":192,"num_words":45426,"start":18034,"end":18100},[46190],{"text":46191,"start":18034,"end":18100},"Sibi und ich dachten ja, dass der Anker dafür da ist, weil dann die ganzen Entwickler bei diesem Anker hängenbleiben sozusagen.",{"sentences":46193,"speaker":398,"num_words":46198,"start":18103,"end":18187},[46194,46196],{"text":46195,"start":18103,"end":18114},"Auch gut, auch gut.",{"text":46197,"start":18117,"end":18187},"Ja, ich sag mal, hoffentlich zieht's ziehen die Tools dann eigentlich runter wie 'n Anker, sondern ja, die wir probieren spielen.",25,{"sentences":46200,"speaker":192,"num_words":45915,"start":18191,"end":18210},[46201],{"text":46202,"start":18191,"end":18210},"Sich stabilisieren einen, würde ich sagen.",{"sentences":46204,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":18210,"end":18227},[46205],{"text":46206,"start":18210,"end":18227},"Genau, das ist auch gut.",{"sentences":46208,"speaker":192,"num_words":46212,"start":18227,"end":18289},[46209,46210],{"text":706,"start":18227,"end":18230},{"text":46211,"start":18230,"end":18289},"Weil die ganze die ganze JavaScript Welt ist ja sehr wild und es geht in viele verschiedene Richtungen.",19,{"sentences":46214,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":18289,"end":18307},[46215],{"text":46216,"start":18289,"end":18307},"Ja, das kommt dann 'n",{"sentences":46218,"speaker":192,"num_words":45376,"start":18307,"end":18339},[46219,46221],{"text":46220,"start":18307,"end":18319},"bisschen Ruhe rein.",{"text":46222,"start":18319,"end":18339},"Das ist ja auch nicht schlecht.",{"sentences":46224,"speaker":398,"num_words":46119,"start":18343,"end":18522},[46225,46227,46229,46231,46233],{"text":46226,"start":18343,"end":18353},"Das ist das Ziel.",{"text":46228,"start":18357,"end":18380},"Also auch da ist es halt recht spannend.",{"text":46230,"start":18380,"end":18439},"Wir können gleich noch detailliert über die einzelnen Teile reden, aber ein großes Thema aktuell der React Compiler.",{"text":46232,"start":18442,"end":18469},"Großes Thema, weil der ist aktuell in Babel geschrieben.",{"text":46234,"start":18469,"end":18522},"Es gab mal die Überlegung zu sagen, wir machen 'n Rustport, der wurde wieder verworfen.",{"sentences":46236,"speaker":398,"num_words":46246,"start":18526,"end":18795},[46237,46239,46241,46243,46245],{"text":46238,"start":18526,"end":18606},"Und jetzt gibt's einen Issue in der OXC Repository, wo dann Leute vom Reactteam gesagt haben, hier React Compiler, wie sieht's denn aus?",{"text":46240,"start":18606,"end":18672},"Einfach weil haben wir letztens auch gesehen, es gab, Evan hat es geteilt von Sanity, dem dem CMS.",{"text":46242,"start":18676,"end":18762},"Die haben mal geguckt, wie schnell das mit RoadUnbeat ist und mit und ohne Bubble Compiler und ist halt schon irgendwie 'n vierfacher Slow Down.",{"text":46244,"start":18766,"end":18792},"Einfach, weil's halt in in oder geschrieben ist.",{"text":2314,"start":18792,"end":18795},75,{"sentences":46248,"speaker":398,"num_words":45300,"start":18799,"end":18851},[46249,46251,46253],{"text":46250,"start":18799,"end":18819},"Und gut, dann ja, JavaScript dauert halt.",{"text":46252,"start":18823,"end":18846},"Und wenn Du durch jedes, jedes, schwierig.",{"text":18853,"start":18850,"end":18851},{"sentences":46255,"speaker":192,"num_words":45347,"start":18855,"end":18885},[46256],{"text":46257,"start":18855,"end":18885},"Ihr wolltet, dass der direkt Compiler 0XC nutzt",{"sentences":46259,"speaker":398,"num_words":46270,"start":18888,"end":19140},[46260,46262,46264,46266,46268],{"text":46261,"start":18888,"end":18901},"hab ich das verstanden.",{"text":46263,"start":18901,"end":18926},"Also, die Idee ist nicht mal zwingend.",{"text":46265,"start":18926,"end":18986},"Das geht eher darum zu sagen, okay, den in was Schnelleres, also was Rustbasiertes zu legen.",{"text":46267,"start":18986,"end":19022},"Und dann ist es, also muss ja nicht OX direkt nutzen.",{"text":46269,"start":19022,"end":19140},"Ich glaub, dann finden das die Leute von von SwBC, ist auch anderes Projekt vielleicht nicht so cool, einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab 'n Kompatibilitätslayer, was einfach sagt, ich nutz Ashs Interstream, ne.",72,{"sentences":46272,"speaker":398,"num_words":46282,"start":19140,"end":19405},[46273,46275,46276,46278,46280],{"text":46274,"start":19140,"end":19238},"Und dann zu sagen, hier, ich ich setze nicht voraus, Aber auf jeden Fall, falls ihr daran interessiert seid und react schreibende Compiler nutzt, folgt ihm gern mal.",{"text":706,"start":19242,"end":19243},{"text":46277,"start":19246,"end":19315},"Und ansonsten, es es passieren einfach so viele Sachen, aber wenn man 'n OLC nimmt, wie's aktuell ist, ist ganz lustig.",{"text":46279,"start":19315,"end":19386},"Der Parser selber ist eigentlich der schnellste Parser da draußen insgesamt im Web Dev Ecosystem für Java Script und Hype Skript.",{"text":46281,"start":19390,"end":19405},"Wichtig ist da also, ne.",76,{"sentences":46284,"speaker":398,"num_words":46295,"start":19405,"end":19662},[46285,46287,46289,46291,46293],{"text":46286,"start":19405,"end":19434},"Man möchte ja, dass das alles korrekt gepasst wird.",{"text":46288,"start":19434,"end":19530},"Es gibt vom t c 49, also gibt's so einen Testsuite, die Test, ich glaub, so was in der Richtung, oder, grad mal kurz geguckt.",{"text":46290,"start":19534,"end":19560},"Die sind alle sind alle ready und passend.",{"text":46292,"start":19560,"end":19610},"Das ist immer wichtig, wenn man Sachen implementiert, dass es auch alles wirklich so hinhaut.",{"text":46294,"start":19610,"end":19662},"Man möchte ja nicht so, okay, man passt, was auf einmal kommt, was Falsches bei raus.",73,{"sentences":46297,"speaker":398,"num_words":1011,"start":19662,"end":19902},[46298,46300,46302,46303,46305],{"text":46299,"start":19662,"end":19693},"Man möchte ganz gern die Nutzer da nicht enttäuschen.",{"text":46301,"start":19697,"end":19774},"Und so als Benchmark, SWC, grade ja Direktnutzer nutzen das viel, was halt einfach schneller ist für das ganze Thema Parsend Transform.",{"text":2314,"start":19778,"end":19779},{"text":46304,"start":19779,"end":19840},"Ja, Oxy ist dreimal schneller als das und ist auch schon Rust Tool, also auch ganz, ganz ordentlich.",{"text":46306,"start":19844,"end":19902},"Genau, da kann man, wie gesagt, so Transformer, Resolver und so, auch weiter gucken sie alle auch recht schnell.",{"sentences":46308,"speaker":398,"num_words":46295,"start":19902,"end":20159},[46309,46311,46313,46315,46317],{"text":46310,"start":19902,"end":19946},"Der Minifeier aktuell noch 'n Alpha, könnte aber trotzdem schon recht gut nutzen.",{"text":46312,"start":19946,"end":19977},"Da geht's einfach darum, wir wollen das noch mal stabilisieren.",{"text":46314,"start":19977,"end":20073},"Es gibt noch einige Optimierungen, die wir verbessern können, aber von der, ich sag mal, Geschwindigkeit zu Output, also zu Comprestred Output Ratio ist damit der Beste.",{"text":46316,"start":20077,"end":20099},"Es gibt natürlich Minifier, die sind schneller.",{"text":46318,"start":20103,"end":20159},"Die kriegen dann größere Bundles am Ende, weil klar, muss irgendwo Trade offs machen, andersrum genauso.",{"sentences":46320,"speaker":398,"num_words":46331,"start":20159,"end":20390},[46321,46323,46325,46327,46329],{"text":46322,"start":20159,"end":20205},"Ich kann sagen, ich möchte 'n ganz kleines Bundle, dann dauert das aber länger.",{"text":46324,"start":20209,"end":20247},"Wir ziehen natürlich darauf ab, dass wir im Idealfall beides machen können.",{"text":46326,"start":20250,"end":20266},"Mal gucken, wie gut das wird.",{"text":46328,"start":20269,"end":20345},"Aber auf jeden Fall, wir sind da auch Benchmarkstechnische irgendwie sagen mit, wir wandeln Typescript als Datei oder verschiedene andere Sachen ganz gut dabei.",{"text":46330,"start":20348,"end":20390},"Je nachdem, welche Metrik man geht, eigentlich immer in den Top 3.",68,{"sentences":46333,"speaker":171,"num_words":45827,"start":20393,"end":20516},[46334,46336],{"text":46335,"start":20393,"end":20461},"Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr euch bei dem Plug in System von Rolldown an Rollup orientiert habt, Mhm.",{"text":46337,"start":20464,"end":20516},"Dass ihr bei dem Oxlind euch an Erstland orientiert habt und Oxformat an Pritia?",{"sentences":46339,"speaker":398,"num_words":46349,"start":20520,"end":20659},[46340,46341,46343,46345,46347],{"text":20524,"start":20520,"end":20521},{"text":46342,"start":20521,"end":20539},"Also ist ist fast richtig.",{"text":46344,"start":20539,"end":20566},"Oxformat auf jeden Fall Pretia kompatibel, genau.",{"text":46346,"start":20569,"end":20644},"Tatsächlich als Funfact dazu, Teile von OXC gab's zum PR können schon, also der OXC Browser kann schon in Pretia genutzt werden.",{"text":46348,"start":20644,"end":20659},"Es gibt dadurch schon Speed-up.",40,{"sentences":46351,"speaker":398,"num_words":46295,"start":20663,"end":20908},[46352,46354,46356,46358,46360],{"text":46353,"start":20663,"end":20704},"Ist natürlich nicht ganz so schnell wie alles in in Rust entsprechend zu bauen.",{"text":46355,"start":20707,"end":20763},"Liegt einfach daran, dass man sagt, okay, Pritya ist so der de facto Standard, das ist, aber.",{"text":46357,"start":20768,"end":20832},"So, man will sich in der Regel wenig Gedanken machen, zu sagen, welches Tour nehm ich dann und so weiter.",{"text":46359,"start":20835,"end":20877},"Und die gleiche Idee gilt eigentlich auch für den Rest der der Toolchain.",{"text":46361,"start":20881,"end":20908},"Bei Oxland ist son bisschen das Problem in Anführungsstrichen.",{"sentences":46363,"speaker":398,"num_words":856,"start":20912,"end":21115},[46364,46366,46368,46370,46372],{"text":46365,"start":20912,"end":20942},"Ja, ISland ist halt der Platzhirsch, jeder nutzt ISland.",{"text":46367,"start":20946,"end":20979},"'N paar Leute nutzen Bayern und einige nutzen Oxland natürlich.",{"text":46369,"start":20983,"end":21011},"Jetzt ist son bisschen der Punkt, was macht man da?",{"text":46371,"start":21011,"end":21078},"Und was wir gemacht haben, ist, wir haben 5 mehr als 500 Regeln importiert, von Airceland in Rust.",{"text":46373,"start":21081,"end":21115},"Das heißt, die laufen da von den beliebtesten Paketen mit.",{"sentences":46375,"speaker":398,"num_words":45584,"start":21119,"end":21326},[46376,46378,46380,46382,46384],{"text":46377,"start":21119,"end":21211},"Einzelne einzige Ausnahmen, die's aktuell nicht gibt, sind stilistische Regeln, weil das soll der Vormieter machen, also so was wie Sortieren von Imports, dies, das.",{"text":46379,"start":21214,"end":21248},"Und Type Awaren Lining, weil das einfach recht schwierig ist.",{"text":46381,"start":21248,"end":21271},"Dann muss halt typecript involviert sein eigentlich.",{"text":46383,"start":21275,"end":21309},"Muss man also gucken, wie man das sinnvoll und Performance hinbekommt.",{"text":46385,"start":21313,"end":21326},"Heißt, die gibt's noch nicht.",{"sentences":46387,"speaker":398,"num_words":46045,"start":21326,"end":21501},[46388,46390,46392,46394,46396],{"text":46389,"start":21326,"end":21360},"Der Rest ist eigentlich wieder so die populärsten Sachen sind implementiert.",{"text":46391,"start":21365,"end":21413},"Auxland reagiert auch auf so was wie einfach nur Kompatibilität mit so dem dem Platzhirsch.",{"text":46393,"start":21417,"end":21453},"Das Schwierigste und Spannendste ist eigentlich das Thema Custom Rules.",{"text":46395,"start":21453,"end":21489},"Also so was wie Firmen haben ihre eigene Linch Rules.",{"text":46397,"start":21489,"end":21501},"Wie schreib ich die?",{"sentences":46399,"speaker":398,"num_words":46410,"start":21501,"end":21820},[46400,46402,46404,46406,46408],{"text":46401,"start":21501,"end":21536},"Weil die will man ja nicht zwingend alle in Rust schreiben.",{"text":46403,"start":21540,"end":21620},"Und da ist, also da gibt's auch 'n lange Isch schon mit Diskussionen und Informationen, son bisschen das Problem der Trade off mit Kompatibilität.",{"text":46405,"start":21624,"end":21676},"Also son bisschen wie, na machen wir jetzt alles ISIN kompatibel, dann verzichte aber auf Performance.",{"text":46407,"start":21676,"end":21788},"Wir haben sehr viel Legacy Probleme, weil die ganzen Probleme der ASLIN APPI, das sind jetzt nicht Tausende nehm ich mal an, aber es sind genug, ja, sind dann auch bei uns.",{"text":46409,"start":21788,"end":21820},"Man müsste das in Zünd halten und so weiter.",92,{"sentences":46412,"speaker":398,"num_words":46423,"start":21823,"end":22146},[46413,46415,46417,46419,46421],{"text":46414,"start":21823,"end":21884},"Dann gibt's Dino zum Beispiel haben wir's gemacht, die haben eine komplett neue API für so Linting bereitgestellt.",{"text":46416,"start":21888,"end":21899},"Hast Du das Problem?",{"text":46418,"start":21899,"end":21999},"Okay, wie ist das mit Adoption, als ob jetzt alle Leute, die 'n, Plug in Mainain ist auch als Dino Lind Plug in bereitstellen, das ist halt auch schwierig.",{"text":46420,"start":22002,"end":22070},"Was wir versuchen, wir versuchen halt, was die angeht, so kompatibel wie möglich zu sein, ohne auf so viel Performance zu verzichten.",{"text":46422,"start":22074,"end":22146},"Da wird aktuell noch viel experimentiert, deswegen gibt's auch aktuell noch keinen Javascript Plug in Support, aber der wird auf jeden Fall kommen.",96,{"sentences":46425,"speaker":398,"num_words":45536,"start":22150,"end":22446},[46426,46428,46430,46432,46434],{"text":46427,"start":22150,"end":22256},"Nicht zu 1 Punkt 0 tatsächlich, aber weitergehend, wir haben da 'n Blogpost in der Pipeline, weil die stabile Ochse in der 1 Punkt 0 Version steht, son bisschen vor der Tür.",{"text":46429,"start":22260,"end":22307},"Und das ist halt 1 der Fokus, die wir eigentlich ganz gern legen wollen, ne.",{"text":46431,"start":22307,"end":22405},"Sozusagen, okay, ihr könnt eure Custom Lindruhes schreiben, weil auch da wieder, wenn man in Richtung Enterprise guckt, es gibt Firmen, die haben über Hunderte, teilweise Tausende Custom Lindruhes.",{"text":46433,"start":22409,"end":22441},"Und da will man's nicht sagen, ja, könntest Du nicht benutzen.",{"text":22448,"start":22441,"end":22446},{"sentences":46436,"speaker":171,"num_words":45734,"start":22450,"end":22669},[46437,46439,46440,46442,46444],{"text":46438,"start":22450,"end":22483},"Meine Frage zielte eigentlich son bisschen in Richtung Vision.",{"text":2314,"start":22487,"end":22488},{"text":46441,"start":22488,"end":22530},"Dadurch, dass die, also hattest Du euch schon grade son bisschen angerissen.",{"text":46443,"start":22530,"end":22581},"Also die Konfigurationssachen, die, also gibt's da, habt seht ihr da irgendwo noch Verbesserungsbedarf?",{"text":46445,"start":22585,"end":22669},"Also weil mir mir dreht's dir immer der Magen und wenn ich dran denk, oh nein, ich muss jetzt in meine IS LinConfig irgendwas reinschreiben.",{"sentences":46447,"speaker":171,"num_words":45628,"start":22672,"end":22738},[46448,46449,46451],{"text":706,"start":22672,"end":22673},{"text":46450,"start":22673,"end":22720},"Wie geht das noch mal und dann, wie war noch mal die Prettyer Config?",{"text":46452,"start":22724,"end":22738},"Was wie heißt das alles?",{"sentences":46454,"speaker":398,"num_words":46463,"start":22742,"end":22886},[46455,46456,46457,46459,46461],{"text":786,"start":22742,"end":22743},{"text":22749,"start":22743,"end":22747},{"text":46458,"start":22751,"end":22815},"Also wir idealerweise so die Idee wäre und das half eigentlich jetzt schon ganz gut, es ist halt und, ne.",{"text":46460,"start":22815,"end":22846},"Also im besten Fall brauchst Du nichts zu konfigurieren.",{"text":46462,"start":22850,"end":22886},"Du kannst einfach zum Beispiel jetzt schon sagen, Du lässt einfach laufen.",43,{"sentences":46465,"speaker":398,"num_words":45360,"start":22890,"end":23238},[46466,46468,46470,46472,46474],{"text":46467,"start":22890,"end":22953},"Da sind alle Regeln, die, also sagen, der Code soll nicht falsch sein, ne, sind an und dann ist gut.",{"text":46469,"start":22955,"end":23035},"Jetzt ist natürlich die Frage, okay, es gibt immer Caseblatt, ich möchte die Lintriegel ausstellen, ich möchte was Custom hinzufügen, die ist das, klar.",{"text":46471,"start":23035,"end":23121},"Aber die Idee ist auch da wieder ne, Unify Toolchain als Big Picture, It justworks ist immer son bisschen in der Ausnahme, wie gesagt.",{"text":46473,"start":23121,"end":23145},"Da gibt's verschiedenste Präferenzen, dies das.",{"text":46475,"start":23148,"end":23238},"Aber ich glaub so für das Allgemeine wirklich die Idee zu sagen, Du lastenkommando laufen und es funktioniert und Caching ist eingebaut im im im besten Fall.",{"sentences":46477,"speaker":398,"num_words":45628,"start":23241,"end":23303},[46478,46480],{"text":46479,"start":23241,"end":23278},"Es ist alles performant und Du musst dir darüber keine Sorgen machen.",{"text":46481,"start":23278,"end":23303},"Also das ist das das große, große Ziel.",{"sentences":46483,"speaker":171,"num_words":46490,"start":23306,"end":23475},[46484,46485,46487,46488],{"text":23310,"start":23306,"end":23307},{"text":46486,"start":23307,"end":23380},"Ich hätte noch eine andere Frage und zwar zu dem Punkt, dass wir im Dev Server den Bundled Mode haben.",{"text":706,"start":23383,"end":23384},{"text":46489,"start":23388,"end":23475},"Und ich wollte eigentlich nur noch mal einen Beispiel von dir haben für, es ist mir auf die Füße gefallen, dass es anbandelt und buntelt gibt.",48,{"sentences":46492,"speaker":398,"num_words":958,"start":23478,"end":23701},[46493,46495,46497,46499,46501],{"text":46494,"start":23478,"end":23521},"Also aktuell in wie, genau, hast Du den Devserver, der ist nur anbandelt.",{"text":46496,"start":23525,"end":23584},"Bedeutet also sowas wie Performance Checks kannst Du sehr schwierig machen oder gucken, welche werden wann wie importiert.",{"text":46498,"start":23588,"end":23601},"Das geht halt alles nicht.",{"text":46500,"start":23601,"end":23686},"Also Du kannst halt schlecht sagen, welches Javaskulptfall, welcher Junk der dann auch im Production so wäre mit und so weiter, importiert dann welchen Chunk?",{"text":46502,"start":23686,"end":23701},"Warum wird was geladen?",{"sentences":46504,"speaker":398,"num_words":46515,"start":23701,"end":24147},[46505,46507,46509,46511,46513],{"text":46506,"start":23701,"end":23788},"Na, son bisschen Performancormimierung zum Beispiel oder auch so das Thema, ne, Da wär's halt ganz gut, wenn man das einfach in ähnlich wie in hätte.",{"text":46508,"start":23792,"end":23900},"Jetzt natürlich nicht Minifight, ne, da kann man sagen, okay, performancetechnisch Messung wär eigentlich ganz gut, wenn man's auf Staging macht, aber zumindest, dass der Dev halt nachvollziehen kann, das funktioniert halt genauso.",{"text":46510,"start":23900,"end":23964},"Und auf der anderen Seite aus Veeds Entwicklersicht oder aus Veed Teamsicht auch, es ist halt Komplexität.",{"text":46512,"start":23968,"end":24083},"Also sobald ich halt ES, erst jetzt sag ich schon, ES Bild und Rollup beides bedenken muss bei allen Featuren, weil die sollen ja in der und auch in Produktion funktionieren, ist es recht schwierig.",{"text":46514,"start":24086,"end":24147},"Genauso Veed Bau zum Beispiel hat eine eigenen HMA Mechanismus, also Hotmody Reload oder Hotmody Reload.",127,{"sentences":46517,"speaker":398,"num_words":46526,"start":24151,"end":24471},[46518,46520,46522,46524],{"text":46519,"start":24151,"end":24274},"Das wird's in Zukunft auch von übernommen, sodass halt da auch Komplexität wegfällt, weil das kann der Bande dann direkt, da braucht sich viel nicht drum kümmern, da kann das Ganze einfach adaptieren und und fertig.",{"text":46521,"start":24274,"end":24318},"Also auf Entwicklerseite fällt halt Komplexität weg zu sagen, jetzt werden meine geladen.",{"text":46523,"start":24322,"end":24458},"Ich seh jetzt nicht, keine Ahnung, 1000 requests im Network, sondern ich seh halt, okay, hier ist der Entrychunk, hier ist dies das versus, ne, auch wie gesagt, von der der Sicht weniger Komplexität, was ja auch nicht schlecht ist.",{"text":46525,"start":24458,"end":24471},"Bedeutet auch weniger Bugs.",93,{"sentences":46528,"speaker":171,"num_words":46533,"start":24475,"end":24553},[46529,46531],{"text":46530,"start":24475,"end":24491},"Cool, ja, das versteh ich.",{"text":46532,"start":24491,"end":24553},"Aber das war wäre dann wirklich Langzeit, Langzeit, weil ihr wolltet doch beide Modes noch weiter supporten oder?",23,{"sentences":46535,"speaker":398,"num_words":46546,"start":24556,"end":24879},[46536,46538,46540,46542,46544],{"text":46537,"start":24556,"end":24574},"Langzeit, Langzeit ist immer so schwierig.",{"text":46539,"start":24574,"end":24624},"Die die Phasen, die ich vorhin erwähnt hatte, da geht's halt Monate, nicht Jahre.",{"text":46541,"start":24624,"end":24715},"Das heißt also, solange der Full Bundle Mod opt in wird, sobald er dann kommt, ne, Opt in wird der getestet, genauso wie jetzt halt getestet wird.",{"text":46543,"start":24715,"end":24791},"Und sobald das stabilisiert ist, es keine Probleme damit gibt, alle Kinderkrankheiten ausgebildet ist, ist das Ziel, das dann irgendwann als zu machen.",{"text":46545,"start":24791,"end":24879},"Das wird aber dann, geh ich stark von aus, auch irgendwann in 'ner Major Version passieren, die jetzt nicht 8 ist, weil da kommt ja erst mit Rolldown.",98,{"sentences":46548,"speaker":398,"num_words":46559,"start":24882,"end":25362},[46549,46551,46553,46555,46557],{"text":46550,"start":24882,"end":24928},"Da wird's ja noch mit Opt in bleiben, sondern 9, 10, wie auch immer.",{"text":46552,"start":24932,"end":25053},"Genau, aber am Ende das das Maintain von Biden ist halt son bisschen schwierig, wenn man sagt, okay, es gibt halt einen Modus, der hat keine Trade offs, egal ob Du eine kleine oder große Applikation hast.",{"text":46554,"start":25053,"end":25101},"Dann ist die Frage, warum warum behält man so die Komplexität, wenn's auch anders geht?",{"text":46556,"start":25105,"end":25231},"Ich glaub, der ist superhilfreich gewesen, zum einen erst mal Entwicklern zu zeigen, hey, es geht doch schneller als in Webpack und hat sehr viel so zu Veats Popularität und auch son bisschen Identität mit beigetragen.",{"text":46558,"start":25235,"end":25362},"Aber ich glaub, ab 'nem gewissen Punkt ist ja dann zu sagen, gut, warum, wenn's auch mit 'nem anderen Modus, der halt für alle Cases funktioniert, besser geht und eigentlich keine Nachteile hat, wenn's halt auch Speedtechnisch ähnlich ist.",141,{"sentences":46561,"speaker":192,"num_words":46198,"start":25365,"end":25445},[46562,46564],{"text":46563,"start":25365,"end":25412},"Und die und die Speed Improvings kommen dann, weil es eben in Rust geschrieben ist.",{"text":46565,"start":25412,"end":25445},"Dann ist der Bundle Mode ähnlich schnell wie der Unbundle?",{"sentences":46567,"speaker":398,"num_words":46578,"start":25449,"end":25771},[46568,46570,46572,46574,46576],{"text":46569,"start":25449,"end":25489},"Genau, also die Idee wäre zu sagen, Webpack hat ja dann ewig gedauert.",{"text":46571,"start":25489,"end":25628},"Genau, dadurch das Ganze dann Rust geschrieben ist, deutlich optimierter läuft und ja, wir entsprechend auch aus den den Lehren da gelernt haben und auch natürlich einige Optimierungen nicht brauchen für den Dev Mode, dann würde das entsprechend schneller funktionieren, korrekt.",{"text":46573,"start":25631,"end":25739},"Als als nur so kleiner Hinweis oder als Randnotiz, wenn man sagt, wie schnell, man kennt das ja bei t s und t s go, ne, als gesagt hat, wir erporten nach go.",{"text":46575,"start":25739,"end":25755},"Es wird alles zehnmal schneller.",{"text":46577,"start":25755,"end":25771},"Das ist halt recht cool.",97,{"sentences":46580,"speaker":398,"num_words":46144,"start":25774,"end":25958},[46581,46583,46585,46587,46589],{"text":46582,"start":25774,"end":25833},"Aber ich hab son eine Statistik mal mitgebracht, die größte Repository, wo man mal Oxland drübergelaufen hat, ne.",{"text":46584,"start":25833,"end":25867},"Ist jetzt kein Bundler, aber Linzin ist trotzdem recht aufwendig.",{"text":46586,"start":25871,"end":25882},"Das ist recht cool.",{"text":46588,"start":25885,"end":25940},"Da haben wir eine Pfeilanzahl von fast also 264925 Firers, also sag mal, 265 Firers.",{"text":46590,"start":25945,"end":25958},"101, also 101 Regeln.",{"sentences":46592,"speaker":398,"num_words":46599,"start":25962,"end":26102},[46593,46595,46597],{"text":46594,"start":25962,"end":26000},"10 Threads wurden genutzt, auch wieder das Vorteil, ne, Multi Threading.",{"text":46596,"start":26004,"end":26089},"So, könnt ihr mal schätzen, wie lang hat es denn gedauert, über diese 265000 Files mit Oxland und den 100 und eine Regel drüber laufen zu lassen?",{"text":46598,"start":26093,"end":26102},"Können wir raten?",41,{"sentences":46601,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":26107,"end":26113},[46602],{"text":46603,"start":26107,"end":26113},"15 Sekunden.",{"sentences":46605,"speaker":398,"num_words":46612,"start":26117,"end":26151},[46606,46608,46610],{"text":46607,"start":26117,"end":26125},"15 Sekunden, okay.",{"text":46609,"start":26125,"end":26142},"Zweihundertfünfsechstausend, Pfizer 5 Sekunden.",{"text":46611,"start":26142,"end":26151},"Das wär schon",10,{"sentences":46614,"speaker":171,"num_words":45347,"start":26154,"end":26180},[46615],{"text":46616,"start":26154,"end":26180},"Okay, ich hab gar keine Referenz, was passiert.",{"sentences":46618,"speaker":398,"num_words":45290,"start":26180,"end":26233},[46619],{"text":46620,"start":26180,"end":26233},"Also ich sag mal so im in IS sind brauchen wir dafür ziemlich sicher",{"sentences":46622,"speaker":171,"num_words":45260,"start":26237,"end":26247},[46623,46624],{"text":26241,"start":26237,"end":26238},{"text":46625,"start":26238,"end":26247},"Ah, okay.",{"sentences":46627,"speaker":192,"num_words":45803,"start":26250,"end":26264},[46628],{"text":46629,"start":26250,"end":26264},"Ah, okay, da sind wir.",{"sentences":46631,"speaker":171,"num_words":45260,"start":26264,"end":26274},[46632],{"text":46633,"start":26264,"end":26274},"Da sind wir.",{"sentences":46635,"speaker":192,"num_words":45745,"start":26274,"end":26337},[46636,46638,46640],{"text":46637,"start":26274,"end":26319},"Ich wollt jetzt 3 Sekunden ansetzen, aber jetzt würde ich höher höher gehen.",{"text":46639,"start":26319,"end":26326},"Keine Ahnung.",{"text":46641,"start":26326,"end":26337},"Sagen wir mal",{"sentences":46643,"speaker":171,"num_words":45404,"start":26340,"end":26356},[46644,46646],{"text":46645,"start":26340,"end":26346},"eine Minute.",{"text":46647,"start":26350,"end":26356},"Eine Minute.",{"sentences":46649,"speaker":398,"num_words":45628,"start":26356,"end":26427},[46650,46652,46654,46656,46658],{"text":46651,"start":26356,"end":26368},"Eine Minute, ja.",{"text":46653,"start":26372,"end":26376},"22.5 Sekunden.",{"text":46655,"start":26379,"end":26388},"Ah, let's go.",{"text":46657,"start":26388,"end":26399},"Ja, ja, okay.",{"text":46659,"start":26399,"end":26427},"Nee, es war war gar nicht so schlecht tatsächlich.",{"sentences":46661,"speaker":398,"num_words":46671,"start":26427,"end":26807},[46662,46664,46666,46668,46670],{"text":46663,"start":26427,"end":26545},"Ja, ich hab mich vielleicht 'n kleines bisschen irre geführt, aber das ist ja wirklich, das sind so die Szenarien, wo man halt auch merkt, okay, diese Tools, die in nativer Sprache geschrieben sind Mhm.",{"text":46665,"start":26549,"end":26688},"Und das ist einfach, also auch bei so Minifeiern, wenn Du sagst, Du Theresa zum Beispiel ist ja auch sehr populär oder eigentlich dann, wenn man das wirklich vergleicht, dann gibt's halt irgendwann einfach Time aus oder sagt man, okay, ist es nicht.",{"text":46667,"start":26688,"end":26726},"Deswegen zum Beispiel Shopify nutzt Oxin schon bei sich für verschiedene Regeln.",{"text":46669,"start":26729,"end":26804},"Müssen nicht mehr alle sein, einfach zu sagen, die die teuren Regeln, so was wie, guck bitte, dass es keine zyklischen Dependencies gibt.",{"text":706,"start":26804,"end":26807},114,{"sentences":46673,"speaker":398,"num_words":46578,"start":26807,"end":27130},[46674,46676,46677,46679,46681],{"text":46675,"start":26807,"end":26878},"Ja, da brauchst Du halt auch alle Files, weil na ja, Du willst ja gucken, ob's irgendwelche Kreise da drin gibt.",{"text":2314,"start":26878,"end":26881},{"text":46678,"start":26884,"end":26972},"Und dann zu sagen, okay, wir haben das halt in 'ner riesigen Monorepo, ne, klar, dann geht's halt nicht anders, als auf auf solches Toolings zu setzen.",{"text":46680,"start":26972,"end":27060},"Und das ist eigentlich auch ganz schön zu sehen, dass dass genau das passiert, dass halt genau die großen Cases, ne, für die funktioniert's dann auf einmal.",{"text":46682,"start":27060,"end":27130},"Und auf einmal braucht man nicht mehr Stunden, selbst wenn's eine halbe Stunde ist, dass man das Ganze im CI hat.",{"sentences":46684,"speaker":398,"num_words":46694,"start":27130,"end":27298},[46685,46687,46689,46691,46692],{"text":46686,"start":27130,"end":27145},"Das ist doch alles Zeit.",{"text":46688,"start":27145,"end":27226},"Es hat aber jetzt ist jemand geschrieben, so allein, dass die Leute auf Roaddown Beatriert sind, ne, kein Linta geändert oder gar nichts.",{"text":46690,"start":27231,"end":27278},"50000 Dollar im Jahr ist die Ei Kosten gespart, einfach durch die Zeit.",{"text":22749,"start":27281,"end":27282},{"text":46693,"start":27282,"end":27298},"Ich glaub, wenn das Ja.",47,{"sentences":46696,"speaker":398,"num_words":46072,"start":27301,"end":27337},[46697,46699,46700],{"text":46698,"start":27301,"end":27329},"Was macht die Firma jetzt, mit denen man sieht?",{"text":2314,"start":27329,"end":27333},{"text":706,"start":27333,"end":27337},{"sentences":46702,"speaker":192,"num_words":45404,"start":27337,"end":27351},[46703],{"text":46704,"start":27337,"end":27351},"Ja, wenn man Ja,",{"sentences":46706,"speaker":171,"num_words":45313,"start":27351,"end":27375},[46707],{"text":46708,"start":27351,"end":27375},"das wird doch gespendet an euch, oder?",{"sentences":46710,"speaker":398,"num_words":45388,"start":27375,"end":27732},[46711,46713,46715,46717,46719],{"text":46712,"start":27375,"end":27433},"Ich wollt grad sagen, also so so Ich glaub, vielleicht springt eine Open Source Contution bei rum.",{"text":46714,"start":27438,"end":27545},"Mercedes Benz zum Beispiel, wir hatten auch 'n Post gemacht, Mercedes Benz I o, die sagen hier modernes Tooling und Co und wie viel man so an an Zeit sparen würde.",{"text":46716,"start":27545,"end":27599},"Und dann hat auch jemand auf, ich glaub Bluescare geschrieben so, hey, ist ja voll cool.",{"text":46718,"start":27599,"end":27651},"Ich hoffe, dann sprechen wird 'n bisschen des Geldes reinvestiert, das auch weiter zu ermöglichen.",{"text":46720,"start":27655,"end":27732},"Deswegen, das ist eigentlich auch mal 'n ganz cooler Punkt so, man upgradet auf die Tour, es ist halt for free in dem Sinne.",{"sentences":46722,"speaker":398,"num_words":46282,"start":27736,"end":27993},[46723,46725,46727,46729],{"text":46724,"start":27736,"end":27858},"Und wenn dann keine Ahnung, Zehntausende, 100000, wie auch immer Dollar, Euro gespart werden, Uns die Möglichkeit gibt, in der Firma was zurückzugeben, das ist immer eine gute Option dann an Open Source Projekte, ne.",{"text":46726,"start":27858,"end":27923},"Da gibt's eine ganz große Auswahl natürlich von Veed, von den Projekten, die wieder aber auch einfach, was ihr benutzt.",{"text":46728,"start":27923,"end":27968},"Es kann ja 'n kleines Modul sein, das kann 'n Framework sein, was zurückzugeben.",{"text":46730,"start":27968,"end":27993},"Bin ich immer 'n großer Fan von.",{"sentences":46732,"speaker":192,"num_words":46739,"start":27997,"end":28116},[46733,46735,46737],{"text":46734,"start":27997,"end":28054},"Ich fänd's halt einfach krass, was das dann für Auswirkungen hat, vor allen Dingen im Enterprise Bereich.",{"text":46736,"start":28054,"end":28077},"Vor allem, also auch mit der Geldgeschichte.",{"text":46738,"start":28081,"end":28116},"Also die Zeit, die man sich spart, ist ja schon immer cool.",36,{"sentences":46741,"speaker":398,"num_words":46748,"start":28119,"end":28215},[46742,46744,46746],{"text":46743,"start":28119,"end":28159},"Und das ist ja auch noch mal Geld, wenn man sagt, okay, Genau.",{"text":46745,"start":28162,"end":28197},"Bei mir Produktivität, aber wirklich auch so CI Kosten noch dazu.",{"text":46747,"start":28201,"end":28215},"Das ist halt echt krass.",29,{"sentences":46750,"speaker":192,"num_words":46758,"start":28215,"end":28347},[46751,46752,46754,46756],{"text":706,"start":28215,"end":28219},{"text":46753,"start":28223,"end":28260},"Aber reizt es sich als, Source Contributer 'n bisschen in einzusteigen?",{"text":46755,"start":28264,"end":28333},"Weil Du hast ja schon gesagt, das passiert grad an vielen Stellen und es hat halt auch sehr viel Sinn, das zu machen.",{"text":46757,"start":28336,"end":28347},"Reizt sich das irgendwie?",39,{"sentences":46760,"speaker":398,"num_words":46771,"start":28351,"end":28735},[46761,46763,46765,46767,46769],{"text":46762,"start":28351,"end":28359},"An sich ja.",{"text":46764,"start":28359,"end":28485},"Also ich würd auch ganz gerne 'n paar kleine, was weiß ich, vielleicht mal in der Regel oder so was, son paar gut First Issues bei zum Beispiel OXC oder so Oxland in dem Fall oder so mit reingeben.",{"text":46766,"start":28488,"end":28571},"Ich hatte Rust mir schon mal vor Jahren, so vor 5 Jahren oder so was, mir angeschaut, in dem Fall war's schon die neue trendige Sprache.",{"text":46768,"start":28574,"end":28658},"Ich bin jetzt nicht so der, ich sag mal, Low Level Mensch in Anführungsstrichen, so c c plus plus ist jetzt nicht so persönlich meins.",{"text":46770,"start":28658,"end":28735},"Bin ja war eigentlich lange Zeit der Freund von, ich bau coole Sachen und hier seht mal und nicht, jetzt kann ich das krass optimieren.",118,{"sentences":46773,"speaker":398,"num_words":46784,"start":28739,"end":28995},[46774,46776,46778,46780,46782],{"text":46775,"start":28739,"end":28797},"Auf der anderen Seite natürlich, wenn man die Tools hat und son bisschen die Kombination, ja, reizt mich schon.",{"text":46777,"start":28801,"end":28875},"Aktuell seh ich natürlich, meine Zeit ist da ganz gut investiert zu sagen, ich erkläre das und das, was die Leute im Team mitarbeiten.",{"text":46779,"start":28875,"end":28907},"Ich guck, dass das aus die x-Sicht irgendwie passt.",{"text":46781,"start":28907,"end":28971},"Ich geborene Feedback und kann so, ich denk mal, zeitlich besser contributen, aber bestimmt guck ich mal hobbymäßig rein.",{"text":46783,"start":28971,"end":28995},"Weil ey, das ist superspannend, definitiv.",77,{"sentences":46786,"speaker":192,"num_words":45371,"start":28999,"end":29276},[46787,46789,46791,46793,46795],{"text":46788,"start":28999,"end":29041},"Ich find's auf jeden Fall cool, auch wie es Communities zusammenbringt, ne.",{"text":46790,"start":29041,"end":29088},"So Javascript und werden da wahrscheinlich grad sehr zusammen, also die finden sich zusammen.",{"text":46792,"start":29091,"end":29163},"Und auch allein, was wir, also auch das, was Oxy überhaupt macht, so viele verschiedene Dinge zusammenbringen und das Beste aus allen Welten.",{"text":46794,"start":29167,"end":29201},"Und wir haben ja auch schon 'n paarmal Void Zero angesprochen.",{"text":46796,"start":29201,"end":29276},"Ist es richtig, dass Du das so verstehe, dass das auch das Ziel von Void Zero ist, das Ganze zusammenbringen und zu vereinheitlichen?",{"sentences":46798,"speaker":398,"num_words":46809,"start":29280,"end":29567},[46799,46801,46803,46805,46807],{"text":46800,"start":29280,"end":29343},"Genau, also bei Void Zero ist das Ziel in dieser, ich hatt's zum Hammer gesagt, Unified Javascript Tool Chain.",{"text":46802,"start":29343,"end":29386},"Ich glaub, auch wenn wir bei beim Thema Rust bleiben, ist das ganz gut.",{"text":46804,"start":29389,"end":29416},"Evan hat dann gesagt, so das Cargo für JavaScript.",{"text":46806,"start":29419,"end":29451},"Also einfach zu sagen, okay, ich hab effektiv ein Tool, ne.",{"text":46808,"start":29451,"end":29567},"Und ich mein, wenn man jetzt sagt, das ist Veed oder Veed Plus, was grad in der Mache ist, dann zu sagen, okay, alles klar, damit kann ich wirklich alles abdecken, was das komplette Ökosystem braucht.",89,{"sentences":46811,"speaker":398,"num_words":46822,"start":29571,"end":29786},[46812,46814,46816,46818,46820],{"text":46813,"start":29571,"end":29653},"Weil das geht, wie gesagt, das Thema, okay, ich kann irgendwas bauen, sei das eine Applikation, sei das eine Library, ne, soll auch mit abgedeckt werden.",{"text":46815,"start":29656,"end":29688},"Aktuell gibt's Tools on top of Rolldown so als library Bundler.",{"text":46817,"start":29692,"end":29711},"TS Down ist damit das bekannteste.",{"text":46819,"start":29715,"end":29728},"Es gibt dann noch O-Bild.",{"text":46821,"start":29732,"end":29786},"Heißt, wenn ihr 'n Library habt und der nutzt da irgendwas zu bauen, guckt euch das mal an.",66,{"sentences":46824,"speaker":398,"num_words":45827,"start":29786,"end":29905},[46825,46827,46829,46830,46832],{"text":46826,"start":29786,"end":29797},"Ist recht einfach.",{"text":46828,"start":29797,"end":29840},"Gibt's auch 'n schönes Video als Explainer, weiß ja nicht das interessiert.",{"text":2314,"start":29843,"end":29844},{"text":46831,"start":29847,"end":29864},"Und dann, genau, geht's halt weiter.",{"text":46833,"start":29864,"end":29905},"Vielleicht auch irgendwann sagen, ich kann mein Javasker Backend damit bauen, ne.",{"sentences":46835,"speaker":398,"num_words":45460,"start":29905,"end":30151},[46836,46838,46840,46842,46844],{"text":46837,"start":29905,"end":29949},"Und eigentlich alle Jobs übernehmen, Linting, Formating, ich kann Docks erstellen.",{"text":46839,"start":29949,"end":30026},"Ich hab irgendwie Dev Tools zum Beispiel Anthony Fu ist bestimmt vielen Namen der abarbeitet seit geraumer Zeit an den Dev Tools.",{"text":46841,"start":30026,"end":30045},"Das auch, ja, ist Open Source.",{"text":46843,"start":30049,"end":30134},"Sagen jedes Projekt kann einfach direkt sehen, okay, nicht nur Band kann man jetzt schon mit 'nem Visualizer, aber zum Beispiel wie lange braucht denn mein Bild?",{"text":46845,"start":30134,"end":30151},"Welche Plugins dauern denn lange?",{"sentences":46847,"speaker":398,"num_words":45621,"start":30155,"end":30355},[46848,46850,46852],{"text":46849,"start":30155,"end":30168},"Was gibt's da für Probleme?",{"text":46851,"start":30173,"end":30254},"Und noch weiteres, Framework können ihre eigenen Integrationen für die DevTws dann bereitstellen, dann was Spezifisches zu haben und so weiter und so weiter.",{"text":46853,"start":30257,"end":30355},"Also da ist echt viel in Arbeit und dann ja mit mit wie plus so die Idee zu haben, wir haben so das eine Ding und das covert eigentlich wirklich alles.",{"sentences":46855,"speaker":192,"num_words":45915,"start":30359,"end":30379},[46856],{"text":46857,"start":30359,"end":30379},"V plus ist mir kein Begriff.",{"sentences":46859,"speaker":398,"num_words":46869,"start":30383,"end":30554},[46860,46861,46863,46865,46867],{"text":786,"start":30383,"end":30384},{"text":46862,"start":30384,"end":30398},"Halt Du das mal.",{"text":46864,"start":30401,"end":30446},"Das das ist auch das ist auch, wie gesagt, das ist in the Making.",{"text":46866,"start":30446,"end":30500},"Ich kann noch nicht so viel persönlich drüber berichten, außerdem, dass das so das Ziel ist.",{"text":46868,"start":30500,"end":30554},"Das ist das bei Void Zero, muss man auch dazu sagen, kann ich auch 'n bisschen ausholen.",52,{"sentences":46871,"speaker":398,"num_words":46198,"start":30558,"end":30641},[46872,46874],{"text":46873,"start":30558,"end":30575},"Wir haben ja Venture Capital.",{"text":46875,"start":30579,"end":30641},"Das erlaubt am Ende, dass Leute auch Vollzeit in derToolchen arbeiten können, weil aktuell machen wir de facto kein Geld.",{"sentences":46877,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":30641,"end":30645},[46878],{"text":2314,"start":30641,"end":30645},{"sentences":46880,"speaker":398,"num_words":45536,"start":30645,"end":30948},[46881,46883,46885,46887,46889],{"text":46882,"start":30645,"end":30666},"Ne, ist ja alles Open Source.",{"text":46884,"start":30669,"end":30712},"Es gibt vielleicht hier und da Firmen, die sagen, ja, hier könnt ihr uns helfen.",{"text":46886,"start":30712,"end":30801},"Also bisschen klassisch, ne, Consulting oder in dem Sinne Verträge habe, dass nichts was skaliert oder womit man die Leute inklusive wieder finanzieren kann.",{"text":46888,"start":30804,"end":30829},"Deswegen so VI plus wird das Produkt sein.",{"text":46890,"start":30829,"end":30948},"Evan hat das auf der Jazz World schon mal vorgestellt, so heißt das Cargo für Javas Klub, einfach zu sagen, das ist eben das, was das Ganze komplett vereinheitlicht, was man dann entsprechend nutzen kann.",{"sentences":46892,"speaker":398,"num_words":46072,"start":30951,"end":30990},[46893,46895],{"text":46894,"start":30951,"end":30964},"Mehr dann im Herbst.",{"text":46896,"start":30968,"end":30990},"So viel kann ich schon mal spoilern.",{"sentences":46898,"speaker":192,"num_words":46903,"start":30994,"end":31097},[46899,46901],{"text":46900,"start":30994,"end":31076},"Viet plus klingt 'n bisschen dann wie ein, also Produkt, was son wie son Pro Produkt, also was dann bezahlt wird, aber das ist es nicht.",{"text":46902,"start":31076,"end":31097},"Also es soll dann Open Source bleiben.",33,{"sentences":46905,"speaker":398,"num_words":46295,"start":31101,"end":31357},[46906,46908,46909,46911,46913],{"text":46907,"start":31101,"end":31150},"Das ist son bisschen der Punkt, wo man natürlich gucken muss, Monetarisierung ist ein wichtiger Punkt.",{"text":706,"start":31154,"end":31155},{"text":46910,"start":31155,"end":31222},"Ich also ich sag mal, wenn ich persönlich jetzt, ne, losgelöst, es gibt viele unterschiedlichste Möglichkeiten, Projekte zu finanzieren.",{"text":46912,"start":31226,"end":31258},"Zum Beispiel, wenn man überlegt, Direktors ist 'n CMS.",{"text":46914,"start":31261,"end":31357},"Vielleicht kennt das einige, die haben zum Beispiel 'n Dual Licensing, also die machen BSL Business Source Licens und sagen, hey, ihr könnt das nutzen, alles kein Problem.",{"sentences":46916,"speaker":398,"num_words":45426,"start":31357,"end":31435},[46917],{"text":46918,"start":31357,"end":31435},"Aber wenn ihr 'n bestimmten revenue Threshold übersteigt, also wenn ihr 'n bestimmtes jährlichen Umsatz habt, dann braucht ihr eine Lizenz.",{"sentences":46920,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":31435,"end":31439},[46921],{"text":2314,"start":31435,"end":31439},{"sentences":46923,"speaker":398,"num_words":46933,"start":31439,"end":31853},[46924,46926,46928,46930,46931],{"text":46925,"start":31439,"end":31633},"So und natürlich das Ziel ist nicht zu sagen, wir Geld geben jetzt die Community, sondern dann das Ziel ist eigentlich zu sagen und das haben wir eigentlich auch immer gesagt, auch als ich noch nicht in der Firma war und Evan im Herbst letzten Jahres darüber interviewt hab, das Ziel ist, Enterprise zu fokussieren, was die Monetarisierung angeht.",{"text":46927,"start":31636,"end":31736},"Deswegen es es wird vieles sein, aber es wird nicht so sein, dass sagt, okay, jetzt könnt ihr das Produkt nutzen, wenn ihr keine Ahnung, fünfer Monat zahlt oder zehner Monat.",{"text":46929,"start":31740,"end":31751},"Deswegen da keine Sorge.",{"text":706,"start":31754,"end":31755},{"text":46932,"start":31755,"end":31853},"Und wichtig ist auch, das ist auch noch wichtig, hinzuzufügen, alles, was aktuell unter MIT Leistungs bleibt, wird auch unter, also was unter MIT Leistungs ist, bleibt MIT Leistungs.",124,{"sentences":46935,"speaker":398,"num_words":46694,"start":31853,"end":32018},[46936,46937,46939,46941,46943],{"text":2314,"start":31853,"end":31857},{"text":46938,"start":31857,"end":31890},"Mach also keine Rugpols, das ist gar nicht geplant.",{"text":46940,"start":31894,"end":31960},"Ist auch Quatsch, weil grade, ne, wir bauen alles rund Veat, wenn wir sagen, Veat wird irgendwie oder so was.",{"text":46942,"start":31964,"end":32014},"Ja, das wird 'n weiteres Web Dev Chaos auslösen und es bringt halt auch gar nichts.",{"text":2314,"start":32017,"end":32018},{"sentences":46945,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":32022,"end":32038},[46946,46947],{"text":786,"start":32022,"end":32023},{"text":46948,"start":32026,"end":32038},"Wie, wie Du denkst.",{"sentences":46950,"speaker":171,"num_words":46490,"start":32042,"end":32201},[46951,46953],{"text":46952,"start":32042,"end":32106},"Nee, ich hab, ja, also ich hatte auch nur vom Veed plus erfahren, dass das halt irgendwann Ende des Jahres.",{"text":46954,"start":32106,"end":32201},"Und jetzt überleg ich grade, wollt ich wegen der, wegen dem Time Frame, weil Du sagtest ja, wir reden hier gar nicht von Jahren, wir reden von Monaten.",{"sentences":46956,"speaker":398,"num_words":171,"start":32205,"end":32206},[46957],{"text":2314,"start":32205,"end":32206},{"sentences":46959,"speaker":171,"num_words":46212,"start":32206,"end":32272},[46960],{"text":46961,"start":32206,"end":32272},"Das heißt, die Sachen, die jetzt grade noch in the making sind, was meinst Du, Minifier und nee, Vormetter?",{"sentences":46963,"speaker":398,"num_words":46119,"start":32276,"end":32453},[46964,46966,46968,46970,46971],{"text":46965,"start":32276,"end":32322},"Genau, Vormetter ist son Prototyp, der wird ziemlich sicher bis bis Herbst verfügbar sein.",{"text":46967,"start":32322,"end":32356},"Genau, Minifier ist halt 'n Alpha, da geht's mal Stabilisierung.",{"text":46969,"start":32360,"end":32403},"Und ansonsten ist die Toolchan, da ist schon ganz gut aus, würd ich sagen.",{"text":10879,"start":32406,"end":32407},{"text":46972,"start":32407,"end":32453},"Und dann eben selber, wie schon gesagt, so die Phasen, da geht's auch entsprechend Monate.",{"sentences":46974,"speaker":192,"num_words":46978,"start":32458,"end":32504},[46975,46976],{"text":32462,"start":32458,"end":32459},{"text":46977,"start":32464,"end":32504},"Auf der OXC Webseite ist noch die Nova JavaScript Engine auf Genau,",13,{"sentences":46980,"speaker":398,"num_words":46991,"start":32507,"end":32861},[46981,46983,46985,46987,46989],{"text":46982,"start":32507,"end":32589},"ich weiß, ja, tatsächlich muss ich ehrlich sagen, ist kein Projekt von uns, ist halt ein Projekt auch Rust basiert, was tatsächlich OXC nutzt.",{"text":46984,"start":32593,"end":32645},"Also auch da OXC als eigenständiges Projekt zu sehen, das ist natürlich auch ganz nett zu sagen.",{"text":46986,"start":32645,"end":32667},"Es gibt verschiedene Sachen, die drauf bauen.",{"text":46988,"start":32670,"end":32795},"Aber to be fair, die Website, ich hoffe, wenn ihr, liebe Hörer da draußen, dass ihr auf OXC Punkt ice geht, ist die schon geupdatet, weil ich nämlich auch als der Minifeier, der Prototyp Complete ist.",{"text":46990,"start":32795,"end":32861},"Da ist noch einiges an Arbeit zu tun, aber wie immer, das gibt's hin und vorne und an allen Enden.",104,{"sentences":46993,"speaker":398,"num_words":46331,"start":32865,"end":33095},[46994,46996,46997,46999,47001],{"text":46995,"start":32865,"end":32888},"Ich updatet das, bis ihr das hört.",{"text":786,"start":32892,"end":32893},{"text":46998,"start":32896,"end":32980},"Aber genau, Javasc engine, das ist ja, wenn man noch mal wieder runtergeht und sagt, okay, ich möchte dann ganz gerne mein Javaskript irgendwo laufen lassen.",{"text":47000,"start":32980,"end":33004},"Aber das ist 'n Work in progress Projekt.",{"text":47002,"start":33008,"end":33095},"Weiteres Spannendes ist, die machen ja Javacript Engine basierend auf JavaScript, die das dann zu, ich glaub, irgendwie oder so komplettiert, ist auch alles ganz wild.",{"sentences":47004,"speaker":398,"num_words":45275,"start":33095,"end":33164},[47005,47007,47008],{"text":47006,"start":33095,"end":33157},"Hat aber alles nicht viel mit Oxy zu tun, außer bei Nova, wie gesagt, die nutzen Oxy als Projekt selber.",{"text":10879,"start":33157,"end":33160},{"text":786,"start":33163,"end":33164},{"sentences":47010,"speaker":192,"num_words":46270,"start":33167,"end":33401},[47011,47013,47015,47017],{"text":47012,"start":33167,"end":33216},"Wir springen zwar 'n bisschen, aber ich will eigentlich auch noch mal zurückkommen auf Viceuro.",{"text":47014,"start":33220,"end":33288},"Vor allen Dingen, ich stell's mir halt schwer vor, wenn man so finanziert wird, die Interessen, beide Interessen irgendwie abzudecken.",{"text":47016,"start":33292,"end":33372},"Also wie schafft man wie schafft man diesen Spagat, Open Source und das, was die brauchen, zu halten und was jetzt auch die Firmen von euch waren.",{"text":47018,"start":33372,"end":33401},"Also zum Beispiel, was wollen die Firmen denn von euch?",{"sentences":47020,"speaker":398,"num_words":46809,"start":33405,"end":33709},[47021,47023,47025,47027,47029],{"text":47022,"start":33405,"end":33421},"Genau, das ist 'n guter Punkt.",{"text":47024,"start":33424,"end":33520},"Wie gesagt, lustigerweise, ich denk ja immer zurück, so fast 'n fast 'n Jahr zurück in Japan, wo ich Evan als ja das Publicy Announce halt auch gefragt hatte.",{"text":47026,"start":33520,"end":33576},"Weil die Hornhaut von der Konferenz sagt, hey, lass 'n lass 'n Interview machen eine Stunde.",{"text":47028,"start":33580,"end":33686},"Und das auch erst mal der Punkt, als das Announcement kam mit, okay, es gab Seed Money, ne, von Void Starow, cool, 4 Punkt 6000000, dann denkst Du erst mal, okay.",{"text":47030,"start":33689,"end":33709},"Rome, oh, das lief gar nicht gut.",{"sentences":47032,"speaker":398,"num_words":46198,"start":33709,"end":33805},[47033,47035,47037,47039,47041],{"text":47034,"start":33709,"end":33729},"Weitere Open Source Projekte mit Finanzierung.",{"text":47036,"start":33733,"end":33749},"Oh, was ich, was war's?",{"text":47038,"start":33749,"end":33776},"Planenscale, Free Treal gekürzt, dies, das.",{"text":47040,"start":33776,"end":33800},"Da siehst Du son bisschen die Horrormeldungen.",{"text":2314,"start":33804,"end":33805},{"sentences":47043,"speaker":398,"num_words":47054,"start":33805,"end":34019},[47044,47046,47048,47050,47052],{"text":47045,"start":33805,"end":33822},"Und das ist voll fair.",{"text":47047,"start":33826,"end":33868},"Das Problem ist, es gibt also Open Source und VC ist nicht zwingend problematisch.",{"text":47049,"start":33872,"end":33894},"Es kommt halt auf viele Sachen drauf an.",{"text":47051,"start":33897,"end":33918},"Zum einen, wer steht hinter dem Projekt, ne?",{"text":47053,"start":33918,"end":34019},"Evan mit 'nem Trackrekord von View und Weed, der also wirklich sich für Open Source einsetzt, ist jetzt niemanden, wo ich persönlich sag, ich würd dem Rugpool zutrauen so.",64,{"sentences":47056,"speaker":398,"num_words":46463,"start":34019,"end":34162},[47057,47058,47060,47062],{"text":2314,"start":34019,"end":34022},{"text":47059,"start":34026,"end":34040},"Der würde es nicht machen.",{"text":47061,"start":34043,"end":34157},"Weil ich glaub, er hat sich so guten Namen gemacht, wenn er irgendwie schnell Geld braucht, gibt's da andere Methoden als zu sagen, ich grün eine Firma und dann mach ich hier, was weiß ich, kommerziell.",{"text":2314,"start":34161,"end":34162},{"sentences":47064,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":34165,"end":34170},[47065],{"text":45308,"start":34165,"end":34170},{"sentences":47067,"speaker":398,"num_words":45342,"start":34170,"end":34381},[47068,47070,47072,47074,47076],{"text":47069,"start":34170,"end":34180},"auch das Ding.",{"text":47071,"start":34180,"end":34203},"Schnelles Geld ist gar nicht das Ziel.",{"text":47073,"start":34206,"end":34286},"Wie gesagt, wir Die Firma gibt's jetzt seit fast 'nem 'nem Jahr oder seit 'nem Jahr war's ja angekündigt offiziell, gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger.",{"text":47075,"start":34289,"end":34327},"Es ist noch kein Geld geflossen, dieser bis auf Consultantcy Contracts.",{"text":47077,"start":34331,"end":34381},"Da sieht man aber auch, dass Evan sich die Investoren, denk ich, ganz gut ausgesucht hat.",{"sentences":47079,"speaker":398,"num_words":46331,"start":34381,"end":34605},[47080,47082,47084,47086,47088],{"text":47081,"start":34381,"end":34454},"Also zu sagen, okay, das Ziel ist erst mal diese Tool Chain zu bauen, erst mal die Fundamente für die Tool Chain zu bauen.",{"text":47083,"start":34454,"end":34482},"Also Rolldown, das entsprechend wie zu integrieren, ne?",{"text":47085,"start":34482,"end":34503},"OXC, Formatter, Linter und so weiter.",{"text":47087,"start":34506,"end":34577},"Und dann irgendwann zu sagen, es gibt ein Produkt, dann gibt's halt irgendwie zum Beispiel Enterprise sowohl Support als auch irgendwie ne, Monterisierung.",{"text":47089,"start":34581,"end":34605},"Es könnte sowas wie Hosted Solutions geben.",{"sentences":47091,"speaker":398,"num_words":45584,"start":34609,"end":34799},[47092,47094],{"text":47093,"start":34609,"end":34637},"Es gibt da ganz viel Möglichkeiten, was drumrum zu bauen.",{"text":47095,"start":34637,"end":34799},"Wir sehen jetzt in anderen Ökosystemen auch, Laverwell zum Beispiel allen voran dran mit Taylor Ottwell, Taylor und Evan ja auch gut befreundet, die jetzt auch mit Laverwell Cloud riesiges Investment haben, aber auch ganz viel drum rum haben, was aber dem Framework eigentlich gar nicht selber schadet.",{"sentences":47097,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":34803,"end":34804},[47098],{"text":2314,"start":34803,"end":34804},{"sentences":47100,"speaker":398,"num_words":47104,"start":34804,"end":34886},[47101,47103],{"text":47102,"start":34804,"end":34882},"Heißt, da die Interessen zu vertreten, ist recht gut möglich, wenn man sich die richtigen Leute auszusamm, die auch an die Vision glauben.",{"text":2314,"start":34885,"end":34886},24,{"sentences":47106,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":34886,"end":34893},[47107],{"text":47108,"start":34886,"end":34893},"Wenn man",{"sentences":47110,"speaker":398,"num_words":46295,"start":34893,"end":35141},[47111,47113,47115,47117,47119],{"text":47112,"start":34893,"end":34954},"das vergleicht mit dem, ist vielleicht böse gesagt, aber dem average Start-up, sagt, okay, wir haben eine coole Idee.",{"text":47114,"start":34954,"end":34981},"Wir haben eigentlich nichts vorzuweisen, vielleicht 'n MVP.",{"text":47116,"start":34985,"end":35007},"Hier ist eine Demo, wir brauchen Geld.",{"text":47118,"start":35010,"end":35114},"Dann ist es natürlich eine ganz andere Reihe von Leuten, die vielleicht interessiert sind oder wo man entsprechend Investitionen und Funding bekommt als, hey, ich bin der Hersteller von View undViet.",{"text":47120,"start":35114,"end":35141},"Ich habe eine Vision für die Javascript Welt.",{"sentences":47122,"speaker":398,"num_words":47133,"start":35144,"end":35450},[47123,47125,47127,47129,47131],{"text":47124,"start":35144,"end":35150},"Guckt mal.",{"text":47126,"start":35150,"end":35276},"So, dann sind die Investoren auch nicht so, die sagen, ich brauch meinen jetzt nächsten Monat, sondern okay, wir geben Zeit, wir machen und wir glauben immer an diese Vision zu sagen, macht halt Web Development an sich besser.",{"text":47128,"start":35280,"end":35314},"Und natürlich, dabei soll am Ende auch Geld rumkommen, keine Frage.",{"text":47130,"start":35314,"end":35433},"So was, eine Firma ist nun mal profitorientiert, aber das ist aktuell gar nicht der Fokus und wird dann, wie gesagt, spannend durch Produkte wie zum Beispiel wie Plus oder wie andere Sachen, die später kommen könnten, Mhm.",{"text":47132,"start":35436,"end":35450},"Wie das Ganze dann wird.",95,{"sentences":47135,"speaker":192,"num_words":46739,"start":35452,"end":35571},[47136],{"text":47137,"start":35452,"end":35571},"Das heißt, im schlimm oder was heißt im schlimmsten Fall, aber im Fall der Fälle würdet ihr auch Investoren ablehnen, die nicht mit dieser Vision übereinstimmen, die was anderes von euch wollen, als was ihr wollt.",{"sentences":47139,"speaker":398,"num_words":46599,"start":35575,"end":35706},[47140,47142],{"text":47141,"start":35575,"end":35605},"Das ist definitiv in der Auswahl der Investoren passiert, ja.",{"text":47143,"start":35605,"end":35706},"Also ich war ich war nicht dabei, aber ich hab da genug Gespräch drüber gehabt zu sagen, okay, es man hat sich da schon ganz gut die Leute ausgesucht und angeschaut,",{"sentences":47145,"speaker":171,"num_words":171,"start":35709,"end":35710},[47146],{"text":2314,"start":35709,"end":35710},{"sentences":47148,"speaker":398,"num_words":45653,"start":35714,"end":36070},[47149,47151,47153,47154,47156],{"text":47150,"start":35714,"end":35776},"Hat die entsprechend eben da die Vision mit verfolgen verstehen tragen können und auch was zu beitragen können, ne.",{"text":47152,"start":35776,"end":35883},"Es geht jetzt ginge nicht darum zu sagen, wer kann mir das meiste Geld geben, sondern es geht darum auch, wie können Investoren hilfreich sein, diese Visionen letztendlich umzusetzen, ne.",{"text":2314,"start":35883,"end":35886},{"text":47155,"start":35889,"end":35971},"Also sowohl ne, Netzwerk, bestimmte Personen, wenn man's sieht, okay, es sind Leute, mit dem jemand von Natlefy zum Beispiel dabei, der investiert hat.",{"text":47157,"start":35971,"end":36070},"Einige wirklich bekannte Business Angel aus dem Webuniversum, wo man sagt, okay, die verstehen das Ganze aus 'ner technischen Sicht, können aber auch helfen, das Ganze vor voranzubringen.",{"sentences":47159,"speaker":398,"num_words":171,"start":36074,"end":36075},[47160],{"text":2314,"start":36074,"end":36075},{"sentences":47162,"speaker":192,"num_words":45878,"start":36079,"end":36381},[47163,47165,47167,47169],{"text":47164,"start":36079,"end":36167},"Ja, ich seh die ganzen vor Vorteile daran und auch dieses, ja, Problem in der Open Source Welt, Geld generell als Problem vielleicht damit lösen zu können.",{"text":47166,"start":36167,"end":36309},"Ich hoffe auf jeden Fall und ich wünsch euch viel Erfolg und auch irgendwie 'n guten Weg, dass es für euch gut funktioniert und ihr da vielleicht auch Vorreiter fürn Positivbeispiel seid, weil eben hast Du eigentlich nur Negativbeispiel aus der Vergangenheit genannt.",{"text":47168,"start":36309,"end":36364},"Ich kenn jetzt auch selber kein positives, aber ich hab irgendwie 'n gutes Gefühl bei euch.",{"text":47170,"start":36364,"end":36381},"Die Bedingungen wirken gut.",{"sentences":47172,"speaker":398,"num_words":45260,"start":36384,"end":36394},[47173],{"text":47174,"start":36384,"end":36394},"Vielen lieben Dank.",{"sentences":47176,"speaker":192,"num_words":45260,"start":36394,"end":36405},[47177,47179],{"text":47178,"start":36394,"end":36402},"Ja, ja.",{"text":36407,"start":36402,"end":36405},{"sentences":47181,"speaker":398,"num_words":46331,"start":36405,"end":36641},[47182,47183,47185,47187,47189],{"text":706,"start":36405,"end":36409},{"text":47184,"start":36409,"end":36448},"Also ich ich muss sagen, es gibt durchaus positiv Beispiele so.",{"text":47186,"start":36448,"end":36514},"Ich glaub Superbase ist ein Positivbeispiel, wo man sagt, okay, hey, die haben hier, die machen coole Sachen, ne.",{"text":47188,"start":36514,"end":36530},"Stack Blitz und irgendwie.",{"text":47190,"start":36534,"end":36641},"Es gibt schon es gibt schon einige, wenn man jetzt nicht nur so auf die negativ, aber das, wie's grad gesagt hat, die negativen Sachen bleibt halt hängen, wie's ganz oft so ist.",{"sentences":47192,"speaker":192,"num_words":398,"start":36641,"end":36648},[47193],{"text":45304,"start":36641,"end":36648},{"sentences":47195,"speaker":398,"num_words":47206,"start":36652,"end":36905},[47196,47198,47200,47202,47204],{"text":47197,"start":36652,"end":36723},"Spannenderweise das Thema Open Source und Geld könnte man noch mal eine ganz eigene Episode mit füllen, aber nur, das unterzubringen.",{"text":47199,"start":36727,"end":36778},"Ich hab nämlich da, ich ich hab mir auch immer gesagt so, ja, warum denn eine Firma?",{"text":47201,"start":36778,"end":36791},"Warum nicht was anderes?",{"text":47203,"start":36791,"end":36865},"Und da ist der Punkt, das Ziel, ne, man muss erst mal mit 'ner bestimmten Geschwindigkeit dran arbeiten, sonst passiert halt nicht viel.",{"text":47205,"start":36865,"end":36905},"Du kannst ja nicht sagen, wir arbeiten da son paar Stunden nachmittags dran.",78,{"sentences":47208,"speaker":398,"num_words":46822,"start":36905,"end":37117},[47209,47211,47213,47215,47217],{"text":47210,"start":36905,"end":36948},"Ich muss ja die Rechnung zahlen, deswegen arbeite ich eigentlich woanders Mhm.",{"text":47212,"start":36951,"end":36958},"Und so weiter.",{"text":47214,"start":36958,"end":37073},"Und grad die Leute, die sich mit dem Thema auskennen, wie schon gesagt, es gab eine Leute, die vorhin an RRS Pack gearbeitet haben, an Biom on Österreichs Rome gearbeitet haben und die dann mit dabei sind.",{"text":47216,"start":37073,"end":37113},"Aber auch einfach, weil es dann halt möglich ist, die Rechnung zu zahlen.",{"text":2314,"start":37113,"end":37117},{"sentences":47219,"speaker":398,"num_words":47230,"start":37117,"end":37523},[47220,47222,47224,47226,47228],{"text":47221,"start":37117,"end":37226},"Ja, und das ist halt natürlich 'n Punkt, wo man sagt, wenn man das Ganze realisieren will und da geht's dann nicht Jahrzehnte, sondern Monate und Jahre, also ist auch in 'ner guten Geschwindigkeit.",{"text":47223,"start":37230,"end":37278},"Und das das find ich sieht man eigentlich bei World Zero ganz gut, dass das passiert.",{"text":47225,"start":37278,"end":37340},"So nicht nur, dass irgendwie Issues superschnell beantwortet werden, aber auch einfach, dass es dass einfach es geht vorwärts.",{"text":47227,"start":37344,"end":37391},"Und dann halt ja, das das geht eigentlich nur, wenn man entsprechend Geld zur Verfügung hat.",{"text":47229,"start":37391,"end":37523},"Und man sieht das beim View Team wiederum, das View Team ist halt underfundet an sich, so Evan Sponsor oder gibt's Geld zu Mainainern aus seiner eigenen Tasche, aber da ist ja keine Organisation in dem Sinne dahinter.",123,{"sentences":47232,"speaker":398,"num_words":47133,"start":37527,"end":37837},[47233,47235,47237,47238,47240],{"text":47234,"start":37527,"end":37571},"Oder gibt's viel im Core Team, die machen das halt ja nebenbei in Freizeit.",{"text":47236,"start":37575,"end":37673},"Was jetzt nicht zwingend schlecht ist, aber was halt zeigt, okay, das wäre halt bei bei Voice Zero, was ja unabhängig vom Viewökosystem ist und gedacht ist, so halt nicht ganz möglich.",{"text":706,"start":37677,"end":37678},{"text":47239,"start":37678,"end":37744},"Ich glaub, von dem Punkt tatsächlich noch mal eine ein wichtiger eine wichtige Bemerkung, nämlich das Thema Governance, ja.",{"text":47241,"start":37744,"end":37837},"Aber jetzt kann man sagen, okay, wird jetzt viel mit an der assoziiert, Rolldown o x-C und wenn man auf die Website guckt, man hat noch V-Test mit darunter.",{"sentences":47243,"speaker":398,"num_words":45798,"start":37837,"end":38123},[47244,47246,47247,47249,47251],{"text":47245,"start":37837,"end":37881},"Testing haben wir gar nicht so viel besprochen, ist aber genau mit dazu.",{"text":2314,"start":37881,"end":37884},{"text":47248,"start":37888,"end":37972},"Und zwar, dass die Governance, was die Projekte angeht, Rolldown und OXE sind die 2 Kernprojekte, wo wo Void Zero eigentlich die Richtung steuert sozusagen.",{"text":47250,"start":37975,"end":38060},"Weed selber zum Beispiel ist, das ist immer ganz schön zu erwähnen, 'n Projekt, wo Firmen, also Leute beteiligt sind, die von unterschiedlichem Hintergrund firmentechnisch sind.",{"text":47252,"start":38060,"end":38123},"Also wie gesagt, klar, Evan, das ist eine Firma, Saphi, ist auch bei uns bei Void Zero mit dabei.",{"sentences":47254,"speaker":398,"num_words":45994,"start":38127,"end":38288},[47255,47257,47259,47261,47262],{"text":47256,"start":38127,"end":38141},"Hiroshi genauso sind 2 Container.",{"text":47258,"start":38141,"end":38213},"Dann haben wir aber viele, es gab zum Beispiel 'n Container Byorren, der wurde von Astro für eine Zeit lang geheiert.",{"text":47260,"start":38218,"end":38247},"Patak eigentlich der Hauptminainer mit, der ist bei Steckblitz.",{"text":2314,"start":38251,"end":38252},{"text":47263,"start":38252,"end":38288},"Anthony Fu, der ist ja auch gefühlt überall mit dabei.",{"sentences":47265,"speaker":398,"num_words":45371,"start":38291,"end":38573},[47266,47268,47270,47272,47274],{"text":47267,"start":38291,"end":38349},"Der ist bei, also der Firma, die der oder der Creator von, ja, ins Leben gerufen hat.",{"text":47269,"start":38352,"end":38407},"Und da ist es eigentlich ganz nett, dass man eben sieht, es geht's nicht die Interessen 1 einzelner Firma.",{"text":47271,"start":38407,"end":38437},"Das wäre auch in dem Sinne gefährlich, ne.",{"text":47273,"start":38440,"end":38569},"Sondern hier sieht man halt, okay, das ist 'n Joint Effort plus natürlich im Ökosystem die ganzen Projekte, die dahinterstehen, die ganzen Frameworks, die ganzen Tools, so was wie Playright und Storybook und so weiter und so weiter.",{"text":2314,"start":38572,"end":38573},{"sentences":47276,"speaker":398,"num_words":47133,"start":38573,"end":38897},[47277,47279,47281,47283,47285],{"text":47278,"start":38573,"end":38662},"Also auch da ist es noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, es geht halt nicht darum, dass jetzt Void Zero die ganze Welt kontrolliert oder die ganze Web der Welt.",{"text":47280,"start":38665,"end":38768},"Aber wir können halt, dadurch, dass wir zum Beispiel dazu Safi und Hiroshi auf der Payroll haben, dass wir Wladimir, den Hauptminainer von V-Test Vollzeit mit dabeihaben und so weiter.",{"text":47282,"start":38768,"end":38854},"Damit die Möglichkeit natürlich da Entwicklungen voranzutreiben und auch sicherzustellen, dass das Ganze ja kontinuierlich gute Features bekommt, bugfix ist und auch da weitergeht.",{"text":47284,"start":38858,"end":38892},"Es ist auch eine Art und Weise der Open Source Sustainability.",{"text":2314,"start":38896,"end":38897},{"sentences":47287,"speaker":398,"num_words":45426,"start":38897,"end":38967},[47288],{"text":47289,"start":38897,"end":38967},"Und dazu das auch noch, wollt ich mir eigentlich fürn Pick aufheben, aber ich hatte ich hatte 2 im im Kopf.",{"sentences":47291,"speaker":192,"num_words":171,"start":38967,"end":38972},[47292],{"text":38975,"start":38967,"end":38972},{"sentences":47294,"speaker":398,"num_words":46169,"start":38972,"end":39243},[47295,47297,47299,47301,47303],{"text":47296,"start":38972,"end":39005},"Es gibt ja von Sentry 'n Open Source Pledge.",{"text":47298,"start":39005,"end":39105},"Wer ihr noch nicht kennt, Firmen können also sagen, okay, für jeden Employe gebe ich im Jahr eine bestimmte Summe, ich glaub, 2000 Dollar oder so was an Open Source.",{"text":47300,"start":39105,"end":39131},"Und dann kannst Du entsprechend da gelistet werden.",{"text":47302,"start":39134,"end":39182},"Das Ganze kannst Du reporten und da sind wir bei bei uns wieder auch mit dabei.",{"text":47304,"start":39182,"end":39243},"Das heißt, unabhängig für Leuten, die wir auf der Payroll haben, sponsern wir also auch noch mal entsprechende Leute.",{"sentences":47306,"speaker":398,"num_words":45710,"start":39246,"end":39499},[47307,47309,47311,47312,47314],{"text":47308,"start":39246,"end":39320},"Genau, pro Entwickler ist wichtig, nicht nur pro Employe, sondern es pro Entwickler heißt, wenn ihr nur 2 Entwickler habt, ist das recht günstig.",{"text":47310,"start":39320,"end":39426},"Da kann man damit gelistet werden, ist nicht nur eine nette Möglichkeit, für Open Source zurückzugeben, sondern auch zu zeigen, dass man in der Firma natürlich das Ganze in 'ner Art und Weise fördert.",{"text":786,"start":39430,"end":39431},{"text":47313,"start":39431,"end":39465},"Und das Logo kommt dann auch auf den Times Square.",{"text":47315,"start":39465,"end":39499},"Das ist kann ich, ich lege auch noch mal senden.",{"sentences":47317,"speaker":398,"num_words":47321,"start":39503,"end":39619},[47318,47320],{"text":47319,"start":39503,"end":39614},"Das ist immer so in gewissen Abständen, ich glaub jedes halbe Jahr, die Leute, die 'n Open Source Platz joinen, da gibt's dann auf der so, das war auch ganz cool, das zu sehen.",{"text":706,"start":39618,"end":39619},35,{"sentences":47323,"speaker":192,"num_words":45347,"start":39619,"end":39649},[47324,47325],{"text":45908,"start":39619,"end":39626},{"text":47326,"start":39629,"end":39649},"Dann Hast Du noch Fragen, Sibi?",{"sentences":47328,"speaker":171,"num_words":45803,"start":39653,"end":39668},[47329],{"text":47330,"start":39653,"end":39668},"Ich hab keine Fragen mehr.",{"sentences":47332,"speaker":192,"num_words":47343,"start":39668,"end":39856},[47333,47335,47337,47339,47341],{"text":47334,"start":39668,"end":39709},"Dann mach ich jetzt mal den Jan und frag seine typische Frage.",{"text":47336,"start":39712,"end":39771},"Alex, haben wir dich irgendwas gefragt oder nicht gefragt, wo Du dachtest, oh, darüber möcht ich aber unbedingt sprechen.",{"text":47338,"start":39771,"end":39788},"Das fehlt uns jetzt noch.",{"text":47340,"start":39788,"end":39807},"Du hast eben schon Testing angesprochen.",{"text":47342,"start":39810,"end":39856},"Da noch drüber sprechen, aber ansonsten, was auch immer Du noch loswerden willst, gerne.",56,{"sentences":47345,"speaker":398,"num_words":47206,"start":39859,"end":40121},[47346,47348,47350,47352,47354],{"text":47347,"start":39859,"end":39902},"Ja, erst mal gute Frage als auch Podcast Host appreciate ich das immer sehr.",{"text":47349,"start":39902,"end":39942},"Auch wenns die meisten sagen, nö, eigentlich haben wir alles besprochen.",{"text":47351,"start":39942,"end":39972},"Ich denk auch im Großen und Ganzen passt das.",{"text":47353,"start":39975,"end":40118},"Ich glaub, das Wichtigste auch da noch mal, ne, es geht jeder jedes Framework ist da mit drin, testet gern mal oder wenn ihr euch das weit, weit in der Zukunft anhört, testet sich die voll Bundle Mount, wenn ihr schon raus ist.",{"text":2314,"start":40118,"end":40121},{"sentences":47356,"speaker":398,"num_words":45329,"start":40121,"end":40421},[47357,47359,47361,47363,47365],{"text":47358,"start":40121,"end":40229},"Und das Wichtigste, wenn ihr irgendwelche Fragen habt, dann scheut euch nicht zu posten, so sei's irgendwie auf Socials, schick mir, was weiß ich, auch eine E-Mail, das ist auch in Ordnung.",{"text":47360,"start":40233,"end":40249},"Also nur zu damit, ne.",{"text":47362,"start":40249,"end":40294},"Und eine letzte Bitte, es gibt eine, nennt sich, also Performance Wins.",{"text":47364,"start":40298,"end":40377},"Da tragen Leute dann einen, so okay, ich hab meine Applikation, entweder werden die Open Source noch besser, aber wie schnell ist sie denn geworden?",{"text":47366,"start":40381,"end":40421},"Wenn ihr das Ganze nutzt und euch da verewigen wollt, immer her damit.",{"sentences":47368,"speaker":398,"num_words":46144,"start":40425,"end":40590},[47369,47371,47373],{"text":47370,"start":40425,"end":40468},"Und ansonsten kommt gerne in die Discord, den oder auch die Lead Discord.",{"text":47372,"start":40472,"end":40527},"Wenn ihr irgendwie Feedback braucht, sagt, hey, das ist irgendwie nicht ganz schnell wie erwartet, könnt ihr mir helfen.",{"text":47374,"start":40530,"end":40590},"So, wir sind da eigentlich in der Regel immer mit dabei und stehen mit Rat und Tat zur Seite.",{"sentences":47376,"speaker":192,"num_words":45827,"start":40594,"end":40711},[47377,47378,47380,47382],{"text":40598,"start":40594,"end":40595},{"text":47379,"start":40600,"end":40642},"Die Links werden wir auf jeden Fall auch noch in die Shownotes packen.",{"text":47381,"start":40642,"end":40675},"Und was für Links wir da auch reinpacken, sind die.",{"text":47383,"start":40679,"end":40711},"Und da lass mal den Jingle laufen, dann geht's ab.",{"sentences":47385,"speaker":398,"num_words":398,"start":40714,"end":40720},[47386],{"text":47387,"start":40714,"end":40720},"Alex, Du",{"sentences":47389,"speaker":192,"num_words":45660,"start":40723,"end":40777},[47390,47392],{"text":47391,"start":40723,"end":40758},"hast schon eben dein deine erste Möglichkeit für den Pick genannt.",{"text":47393,"start":40758,"end":40777},"Willst Du die zweite direkt aufnen?",{"sentences":47395,"speaker":398,"num_words":45827,"start":40781,"end":40898},[47396,47398,47400,47402,47404],{"text":47397,"start":40781,"end":40789},"Ja, klar, gerne.",{"text":47399,"start":40789,"end":40811},"Genau, ich hab son bisschen 2 reingesneakt.",{"text":47401,"start":40816,"end":40836},"Das kann mal passieren, hab ich gehört.",{"text":47403,"start":40838,"end":40864},"Mein zweiter Pick ist doch deutlich technischer fokussiert.",{"text":47405,"start":40864,"end":40898},"Und zwar, es ist Knip KNIP, Knip dot dev.",{"sentences":47407,"speaker":398,"num_words":46526,"start":40902,"end":41220},[47408,47410,47412,47414,47416],{"text":47409,"start":40902,"end":40926},"Logo hat sone Schere und genau darum geht's.",{"text":47411,"start":40926,"end":40986},"Wir wollen was loswerden, wollen was abschneiden, nämlich all die ungenutzten Dependencies, die ungenutzten Exports und.",{"text":47413,"start":40989,"end":41058},"Das kann nämlich knapp machen in auch wieder ne, Framework knostistische Plugins, die automatisch eingesetzt werden, egal, was man nutzt von irgendwie.",{"text":47415,"start":41061,"end":41153},"Wenn ich ESLINN nutze, dann wird natürlich die ESLINNConfig ignoriert und dann wird geguckt, was sind's denn da, was steht da drinne Frameworkbasiert und so weiter.",{"text":47417,"start":41153,"end":41220},"Ist eine sehr gute Möglichkeit, nicht nur einmalig, sondern auch gerne in CI sicherzustellen, dass ihr keine ungenutzten Dependencies mehr habt.",{"sentences":47419,"speaker":398,"num_words":47426,"start":41224,"end":41344},[47420,47422,47424],{"text":47421,"start":41224,"end":41293},"Und ja, ist ein sehr, sehr cooles Projekt, wird fast überall mittlerweile genutzt, tatsächlich auch in Repositories wie Rolldown und auch selber.",{"text":47423,"start":41296,"end":41328},"Deswegen ja, Knip, eine sehr, sehr gute Option, denke ich.",{"text":47425,"start":41328,"end":41344},"Guckt euch das gern mal an.",38,{"sentences":47428,"speaker":192,"num_words":171,"start":41347,"end":41348},[47429],{"text":40598,"start":41347,"end":41348},{"sentences":47431,"speaker":398,"num_words":45684,"start":41351,"end":41445},[47432,47433,47435,47437],{"text":786,"start":41351,"end":41352},{"text":47434,"start":41352,"end":41397},"Und ansonsten, wenn irgendwas nicht klappt, contributed, die Plug ins sind einfach zu stellen.",{"text":47436,"start":41397,"end":41430},"Ich hatte vor 'ner Woche oder so was auch erst contributed.",{"text":47438,"start":41434,"end":41445},"Das ist richtig smooven.",{"sentences":47440,"speaker":192,"num_words":45915,"start":41449,"end":41474},[47441,47443],{"text":47442,"start":41449,"end":41459},"Sehr geil, Knip.",{"text":47444,"start":41464,"end":41474},"Konnte mir nix.",{"sentences":47446,"speaker":171,"num_words":45404,"start":41474,"end":41490},[47447],{"text":47448,"start":41474,"end":41490},"Kannte ich auch nicht.",{"sentences":47450,"speaker":192,"num_words":45803,"start":41494,"end":41509},[47451],{"text":47452,"start":41494,"end":41509},"Cebi, was hast Du mitgebracht?",{"sentences":47454,"speaker":171,"num_words":830,"start":41513,"end":41713},[47455,47457,47459,47461,47462],{"text":47456,"start":41513,"end":41545},"Oh mein, ist ein Proposal für Random Functions.",{"text":47458,"start":41549,"end":41626},"Zuerst Stage 1, aber ich find Random Function in Javascript, das lohnt sich, dass man da mal 'n bisschen das game absteppt.",{"text":47460,"start":41630,"end":41667},"Irgendwie immer ständig irgendwie sone Shuffle Function schreiben oder irgendwie Krempiskram.",{"text":706,"start":41671,"end":41672},{"text":47463,"start":41672,"end":41713},"Und vor allem vor allem auch, dass man's vielleicht irgendwann mal siegen kann.",{"sentences":47465,"speaker":171,"num_words":45803,"start":41713,"end":41730},[47466,47467],{"text":10879,"start":41713,"end":41716},{"text":47468,"start":41716,"end":41730},"Für Tests und so.",{"sentences":47470,"speaker":398,"num_words":46612,"start":41730,"end":41764},[47471,47473],{"text":47472,"start":41730,"end":41751},"Ah, gibt's auch 'n Proposit, ne?",{"text":47474,"start":41751,"end":41764},"Ist das damit drin?",{"sentences":47476,"speaker":171,"num_words":46198,"start":41764,"end":41850},[47477,47479,47480,47481,47483],{"text":47478,"start":41764,"end":41785},"Nee, das ist 'n anderes, ja.",{"text":706,"start":41785,"end":41788},{"text":2314,"start":41788,"end":41792},{"text":47482,"start":41792,"end":41823},"Aber bin ich auf jeden Fall Feuer und Flamme.",{"text":47484,"start":41823,"end":41850},"Freu ich mich sehr, wenn das kenntlich kommt.",{"sentences":47486,"speaker":398,"num_words":45254,"start":41854,"end":42005},[47487,47489,47491,47493,47495],{"text":47488,"start":41854,"end":41874},"Da hab ich eine Anekdote zu tatsächlich.",{"text":47490,"start":41874,"end":41893},"Die muss ich ganz kurz loswerden.",{"text":47492,"start":41893,"end":41901},"Oh Gott.",{"text":47494,"start":41901,"end":41945},"Tatsächlich in 2015 ging mir das auch schon so sehr auf den Sack.",{"text":47496,"start":41945,"end":42005},"Dann hab ich in die E-Mail-Liste vom TC Viertel hinein da geschrieben, sagt hier, sieht's 'n aus?",{"sentences":47498,"speaker":398,"num_words":45660,"start":42008,"end":42066},[47499,47501],{"text":47500,"start":42008,"end":42048},"Wollen wir nicht mal irgendwie sone random Shaffe Funktion für Array erstellen?",{"text":47502,"start":42052,"end":42066},"Kam leider in die Antwort.",{"sentences":47504,"speaker":171,"num_words":45803,"start":42070,"end":42085},[47505],{"text":47506,"start":42070,"end":42085},"Aber Sind 10 Jahre später?",{"sentences":47508,"speaker":398,"num_words":958,"start":42085,"end":42315},[47509,47511,47513,47515,47517],{"text":47510,"start":42085,"end":42096},"10 Jahre später.",{"text":47512,"start":42096,"end":42209},"Also ich ich habe mich mit dem mit paar Leuten vom T-C-Pilot unterhalten, die waren nicht auch auf der Konferenz und hab gemeint, hey, wie sieht's 'n aus, Use Case, dies das?",{"text":47514,"start":42213,"end":42224},"Und ja, Sachen passieren.",{"text":47516,"start":42228,"end":42243},"Deswegen es es ist megaspannend.",{"text":47518,"start":42243,"end":42315},"Und es gibt zwar die Eric schaffen funktioniert immer noch nicht, auch in den Proposal, glaub ich, nicht, aber mal gucken.",{"sentences":47520,"speaker":398,"num_words":47104,"start":42318,"end":42395},[47521],{"text":47522,"start":42318,"end":42395},"Es wurde auf jeden Fall angeraten, dann zu schauen, ob's da vielleicht noch neben dem Platz gibt, schon mal zu schauen, was möglich ist.",{"sentences":47524,"speaker":171,"num_words":45313,"start":42398,"end":42420},[47525,47526],{"text":706,"start":42398,"end":42399},{"text":47527,"start":42399,"end":42420},"Ich hab mich jedenfalls sehr gefreut.",{"sentences":47529,"speaker":192,"num_words":46212,"start":42420,"end":42487},[47530,47532],{"text":47531,"start":42420,"end":42473},"Ja, ich find's generell, also sind grad einige Proposals am Start, die ich spannend finde.",{"text":47533,"start":42473,"end":42487},"Der Proposal ist tatsächlich",{"sentences":47535,"speaker":171,"num_words":45915,"start":42490,"end":42510},[47536,47538],{"text":47537,"start":42490,"end":42503},"eine Staffel für random.",{"text":47539,"start":42503,"end":42510},"Ich hab",{"sentences":47541,"speaker":398,"num_words":45290,"start":42510,"end":42558},[47542,47544,47545],{"text":47543,"start":42510,"end":42523},"auch keine Ahnung, ja.",{"text":42530,"start":42526,"end":42527},{"text":47546,"start":42527,"end":42558},"Dann heißt Du nicht Array Punkt to Shoveled oder",{"sentences":47548,"speaker":171,"num_words":46072,"start":42561,"end":42595},[47549],{"text":47550,"start":42561,"end":42595},"Nee, es ist Random Punkt Shovel und da gibt's das Array.",{"sentences":47552,"speaker":398,"num_words":45827,"start":42595,"end":42711},[47553,47555,47556,47558,47560],{"text":47554,"start":42595,"end":42612},"Ah, genau, das macht Sinn.",{"text":706,"start":42612,"end":42616},{"text":47557,"start":42616,"end":42628},"Ja, geil, sehr schön.",{"text":47559,"start":42628,"end":42673},"Endlich, es hat nur 10 Jahre bis Stage 1, das ist übertrieben, gedauert.",{"text":47561,"start":42673,"end":42711},"Aber ich stimmen da gerad und noch dir Sebi voll zu.",{"sentences":47563,"speaker":398,"num_words":46198,"start":42711,"end":42797},[47564,47566,47567,47569,47570],{"text":47565,"start":42711,"end":42721},"Es passiert superviel.",{"text":2314,"start":42725,"end":42726},{"text":47568,"start":42726,"end":42779},"Und das ist echt schön, dass nicht irgendwie früher so es passiert langsam und gemächlich war's.",{"text":2314,"start":42783,"end":42784},{"text":47571,"start":42784,"end":42797},"Ja, super zu sehen.",{"sentences":47573,"speaker":192,"num_words":45260,"start":42800,"end":42809},[47574],{"text":47575,"start":42800,"end":42809},"Finde ich auch.",{"sentences":47577,"speaker":171,"num_words":45854,"start":42809,"end":42931},[47578,47580,47582,47583],{"text":47579,"start":42809,"end":42820},"Irgendwas 'n bisschen.",{"text":47581,"start":42820,"end":42877},"Und erinnert mich grade, wenn Du sagst so, der Scope vor 10 Jahren son bisschen wie dieses Temporal.",{"text":706,"start":42881,"end":42882},{"text":47584,"start":42885,"end":42931},"So, wo man irgendwie schon seit 100 Jahren die Schmerzen spürt von der Date API.",{"sentences":47586,"speaker":398,"num_words":45254,"start":42934,"end":43091},[47587,47589,47591],{"text":47588,"start":42934,"end":42958},"Da gibt's auch noch 'n geilen Funfact zu.",{"text":47590,"start":42958,"end":42999},"Mozilla, also Firefox hat sich ja geschippt mittlerweile als erster Browser.",{"text":47592,"start":43003,"end":43091},"Und das Krasse war, die Implementierung kam nicht von 'nem Mozilla Mitarbeiter, sondern von 'nem random Contribut, der es einfach allein in in Firefox reingebracht hat.",{"sentences":47594,"speaker":171,"num_words":398,"start":43091,"end":43098},[47595],{"text":47596,"start":43091,"end":43098},"Oh krass.",{"sentences":47598,"speaker":398,"num_words":45300,"start":43101,"end":43158},[47599,47601],{"text":47600,"start":43101,"end":43128},"Das, ich glaub André heißt mit Vornamen.",{"text":47602,"start":43132,"end":43158},"Das war sone Sache, glaubt man manchmal nicht.",{"sentences":47604,"speaker":192,"num_words":45300,"start":43158,"end":43208},[47605,47606,47608],{"text":706,"start":43158,"end":43161},{"text":47607,"start":43165,"end":43185},"Aber vielleicht stößt das jetzt was an.",{"text":47609,"start":43185,"end":43208},"Also es ist cool, hören das mal.",{"sentences":47611,"speaker":171,"num_words":46612,"start":43208,"end":43247},[47612,47614,47615],{"text":47613,"start":43208,"end":43226},"Der war vielleicht maximal frustriert.",{"text":43234,"start":43231,"end":43232},{"text":47616,"start":43236,"end":43247},"Ich mach's jetzt einfach.",{"sentences":47618,"speaker":398,"num_words":46198,"start":43250,"end":43335},[47619,47620,47622,47624,47626],{"text":706,"start":43250,"end":43251},{"text":47621,"start":43251,"end":43259},"André Pagulli.",{"text":47623,"start":43263,"end":43273},"Es ist auch wild.",{"text":47625,"start":43273,"end":43325},"Es steht auch in dem Blogpost dazu drin, wo Du sagst hast, okay, ja, mein einziger.",{"text":47627,"start":43329,"end":43335},"Bild, wild.",{"sentences":47629,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":43335,"end":43351},[47630],{"text":47631,"start":43335,"end":43351},"Open Source ist was Schönes.",{"sentences":47633,"speaker":192,"num_words":920,"start":43355,"end":43573},[47634,47636,47638,47640,47642],{"text":47635,"start":43355,"end":43363},"Ist was Schönes.",{"text":47637,"start":43366,"end":43382},"Ich hab auch noch was mitgebracht.",{"text":47639,"start":43382,"end":43429},"Und zwar haben wir heute viel über Technologie gesprochen, die eher low levelig ist.",{"text":47641,"start":43429,"end":43474},"Und dazu hab ich mal ein sehr cooles GitHub Repository gefunden, das heißt.",{"text":47643,"start":43478,"end":43573},"Und da ist 'n eine ganze Sammlung von Links, die zu irgendwelchen Tutorials oder Artikeln führen, wo man eben bestimmte Dinge selber nachbaut von 0, von sozusagen.",{"sentences":47645,"speaker":192,"num_words":45329,"start":43573,"end":43856},[47646,47648,47650,47652,47654],{"text":47647,"start":43573,"end":43605},"Also da ist zum Beispiel dabei, ein großes Ding ist immer.",{"text":47649,"start":43608,"end":43754},"Und ich find es grade cool, auch jetzt in der Welt von AI, wo man, ich glaub, viele Endprodukte vielleicht nicht mehr selber baut oder mehr von der AI machen lässt, ist es trotzdem immer cool, auch mal Selbsthand anzulegen und Dinge von Grund auf zu verstehen.",{"text":47651,"start":43754,"end":43803},"Und ich glaube, wenn man so was mal baut, dann lernt man da sehr viel.",{"text":47653,"start":43806,"end":43830},"Und ja, diese Liste ist superlang, superspannend.",{"text":47655,"start":43830,"end":43856},"Was noch fehlt, ist Billjo Own Bandler.",{"sentences":47657,"speaker":398,"num_words":45481,"start":43859,"end":43947},[47658,47659,47661,47663,47665],{"text":706,"start":43859,"end":43860},{"text":47660,"start":43860,"end":43879},"Da kommen vielleicht eine Blogpost so.",{"text":47662,"start":43879,"end":43913},"Auch generell, wie son Bandler funktioniert, was die Anatomie ist.",{"text":47664,"start":43913,"end":43926},"Warum, wieso, weshalb.",{"text":47666,"start":43930,"end":43947},"Ja, alles auf der endlosen Liste.",{"sentences":47668,"speaker":398,"num_words":45404,"start":43947,"end":43961},[47669,47670],{"text":706,"start":43947,"end":43952},{"text":47671,"start":43952,"end":43961},"Und es gibt",{"sentences":47673,"speaker":192,"num_words":47683,"start":43961,"end":44068},[47674,47676,47677,47679,47681],{"text":47675,"start":43961,"end":43977},"es gibt viel zu tun.",{"text":706,"start":43981,"end":43982},{"text":47678,"start":43985,"end":43997},"Und viele coole Ideen.",{"text":47680,"start":43997,"end":44032},"Aber genau, da kann man mal reinschnuppern, mal was nachbauen.",{"text":47682,"start":44032,"end":44068},"Ich glaube, das kann Spaß machen und man lernt halt superviel.",31,{"sentences":47685,"speaker":398,"num_words":45584,"start":44072,"end":44265},[47686,47688,47690,47692,47694],{"text":47687,"start":44072,"end":44078},"Mega wichtig.",{"text":47689,"start":44078,"end":44148},"Ich finde so grade das Foundational, also die die Grundlagen oder so was wie wie funktioniert das unter der Haube?",{"text":47691,"start":44152,"end":44212},"Ich glaub, es hat ganz viele so mit zum Programmieren gebracht, so zum Beispiel, okay, ich nutze dieses Programm.",{"text":47693,"start":44212,"end":44252},"Wie könnte ich so was denn selber machen oder warum wie funktioniert das?",{"text":47695,"start":44252,"end":44265},"Das ist halt megacool.",{"sentences":47697,"speaker":398,"num_words":45984,"start":44269,"end":44436},[47698,47700,47701,47703],{"text":47699,"start":44269,"end":44316},"Und vor allem so dieser Spagat zwischen ich nutze etwas versus ich baue an was selber.",{"text":2314,"start":44316,"end":44319},{"text":47702,"start":44319,"end":44412},"Bei Frameworks zum Beispiel, noch mal auf die technische Ebene zurückzukommen, zu sagen, ich nutze 'n React oder 'n Angulares Welt versus, ich baue daran 2 verschiedene Welten.",{"text":47704,"start":44412,"end":44436},"Deswegen ist sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr cooler Pick.",{"sentences":47706,"speaker":192,"num_words":45481,"start":44440,"end":44524},[47707,47709],{"text":47708,"start":44440,"end":44496},"Ja, das ist auch das, was man macht, wenn man generell als Kontribute einsteigt in Open Source Software.",{"text":47710,"start":44496,"end":44524},"Man geht halt eine Stufe tiefer irgendwie, ne?",{"sentences":47712,"speaker":398,"num_words":46809,"start":44524,"end":44820},[47713,47714,47716,47718,47720],{"text":706,"start":44524,"end":44527},{"text":47715,"start":44527,"end":44708},"Ich mein, wahrscheinlich, wenn man wirklich komplett anfängt zu sagen, okay, irgendwie Modul zu irgendwas, wo man sagt, ich hab hab zumindest noch son bisschen Beziehung dazu und ist nicht, keine Ahnung, hier, ich die Bagge Realität und da sind Proxys und da muss ich was tracken und aber auch da, ne Step by Step.",{"text":47717,"start":44712,"end":44770},"Und auch was, was ich dann ganz gern zu sagen, sind auch Dokumentationen, sind ist ist Content genauso.",{"text":47719,"start":44773,"end":44790},"Und Tests sind auch immer super.",{"text":47721,"start":44794,"end":44820},"Das ist das ist halt alles richtig viel wert.",{"sentences":47723,"speaker":398,"num_words":46612,"start":44824,"end":44855},[47724,47726],{"text":47725,"start":44824,"end":44851},"Deswegen scheut euch da nicht und und tut es.",{"text":786,"start":44854,"end":44855},{"sentences":47728,"speaker":192,"num_words":46758,"start":44855,"end":44992},[47729,47731,47733,47735,47737],{"text":47730,"start":44855,"end":44864},"Cooler Aufruf.",{"text":47732,"start":44864,"end":44885},"Das ist doch ein schönes Schlusswort.",{"text":47734,"start":44889,"end":44923},"Vielen Dank Alex, dass Du da warst, dass Du Sehr gerne.",{"text":47736,"start":44926,"end":44962},"Auch alle Einblicke gegeben hast in Rolldown, OXC, Wide Zero.",{"text":47738,"start":44962,"end":44992},"Ich finde es superspannend, in welche Richtung ihr da geht.",{"sentences":47740,"speaker":192,"num_words":45684,"start":44995,"end":45085},[47741,47743],{"text":47742,"start":44995,"end":45067},"Auch Sebi, vielen Dank, dass Du dabei warst und dieses Thema spannend fandest und deswegen Lust hat, es mal wieder im Podcast zu sein.",{"text":47744,"start":45067,"end":45085},"Hat mir sehr viel Spaß gemacht.",{"sentences":47746,"speaker":171,"num_words":45313,"start":45085,"end":45113},[47747,47749],{"text":47748,"start":45085,"end":45105},"Und danke dir, Gareth auch.",{"text":47750,"start":45105,"end":45113},"Großartig, die",{"sentences":47752,"speaker":398,"num_words":45803,"start":45113,"end":45134},[47753,47755],{"text":47754,"start":45113,"end":45123},"Modelle Gerne.",{"text":47756,"start":45127,"end":45134},"Und danke euch.",{"sentences":47758,"speaker":192,"num_words":46198,"start":45137,"end":45218},[47759,47761,47763,47765],{"text":47760,"start":45137,"end":45142},"Sehr gerne.",{"text":47762,"start":45146,"end":45161},"Ankündigungen, machen wir nicht den.",{"text":47764,"start":45161,"end":45176},"Das hab ich schon gelernt.",{"text":47766,"start":45176,"end":45218},"Deswegen sag ich einfach vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis zum nächsten Mal.",{"sentences":47768,"speaker":171,"num_words":45803,"start":45222,"end":45240},[47769,47771,47772],{"text":47770,"start":45222,"end":45228},"Bis dann.",{"text":22448,"start":45228,"end":45231},{"text":47773,"start":45235,"end":45240},"Tschau, tschau.",[47775,47791,47875,47884,47895,47962,48019,48033,48047,48071,48094,48115,48162,48179,48239,48266,48335,48360,48367,48412,48463,48484,48558,48602,48610,48625,48644,48648,48652,48660,48680,48698,48705,48727,48765,48812,48836,48850,48874,48903,48916,48963,48986,48990,49057,49070,49077,49098,49138,49153,49175,49192,49211,49236,49265,49275,49312,49342,49363,49417,49429,49487,49499,49510,49521,49542,49546,49683,49745,49814,49910,49931,49954,50082,50092,50109,50135,50147,50160,50224,50233,50269,50295,50326,50374,50387,50400,50498,50506,50538,50553,50565,50582,50655,50698,50734,50782,50808,50853,50868,50890,50931,50961,50976,50992,51004,51016,51035,51039,51104,51112,51154,51208,51222,51240,51275,51324,51350,51398,51422,51429,51456,51492,51508,51548,51559,51613,51642,51680,51720,51754,51762,51772,51808,51838,51845,51863,51889,51936,51958,51984,52006,52010,52022,52043,52066,52098,52163,52170,52191,52195,52245,52259,52289,52355,52359,52363,52373,52383,52431,52449,52472,52500,52504,52538,52553,52580,52610,52656,52672,52682,52693,52731,52735,52774,52808,52823,52890,52901,52932,52948,52965,52990,53036,53043,53051,53059,53108,53138,53152,53161,53165,53188,53198,53244,53248,53264,53312,53330,53382,53450,53493,53524,53535,53550,53581,53619,53633,53643,53664,53699,53718,53743,53751,53775,53856,53951,53977,53981,53985,53989,54000,54059,54076,54086,54104,54111,54115,54135,54139,54190,54211,54225,54235,54239,54248,54274,54306,54315,54319,54360,54373,54428,54451,54513,54545,54563,54572,54585,54597,54604,54622,54654,54689,54693,54731,54754,54764,54774,54790,54812,54825,54854,54886,54890,54911,54923,54931,54941,54954,54986,55006,55020,55046,55072,55109,55132,55153,55203,55239,55288,55305,55317,55324,55333,55350,55354,55394,55436,55444,55448,55479,55483,55496,55503,55513,55555,55562,55583,55634,55650,55659,55663,55667,55678,55689,55700,55718,55725,55741,55761,55807,55820,55835,55855,55889,55893,55907,55925,55932,55953,55967,55983,56021,56032,56047,56075,56088,56096,56111,56123,56144,56187,56211,56257,56275,56308,56327,56345,56353,56370,56391,56462,56491,56495,56529,56541,56582,56615,56627,56636,56643,56653,56657,56661,56669,56684,56703,56721,56728,56739,56766,56777,56817,56824,56893,56906,56919,56991,57017,57042,57054,57078,57124,57128,57145,57257,57292,57367,57408,57443,57453,57460,57467,57474,57501,57509,57525,57561,57601,57647,57670,57711,57731,57743,57764,57774,57801,57812,57851,57898,57911,57938,57960,58008,58109,58124,58156,58216,58284,58316,58327,58344,58352,58371,58380,58413,58433,58437,58447,58468,58533,58541,58550,58588,58601,58630,58673,58680,58689,58724,58732,58755,58782,58792,58812,58826,58839,58843,58853,58867,58927,58940,58964,58982,59002,59006,59010,59018,59031,59035,59055,59065,59074,59103,59140,59169,59180,59211,59225,59273,59282,59286,59335,59342,59373,59429,59459,59470,59506,59517,59535,59567,59591,59637,59641,59683,59698,59702,59727,59761,59771,59792,59804,59815,59853,59890,59894,59922,59950,59980,60007,60071,60111,60118,60140,60151,60155,60170,60178,60197,60213,60217,60229,60294,60298,60351,60367,60383,60403,60437,60454,60470,60517,60529,60562,60614,60743,60755,60795,60835,60873,60904,60908,60918,60935,60943,60996,61010,61023,61036,61102,61117,61127,61136,61152,61160,61173,61184,61214,61221,61263,61279,61303,61327,61337,61345,61354,61373,61387,61402,61410,61449,61459,61492,61530,61587,61600,61652,61665,61673,61683,61735,61746,61759,61796,61825,61855,61876,61883,61899,61910,61918,61926,61933,61979,61996,62003,62036,62049,62078,62092,62096,62100,62111,62137,62141,62169,62190,62203,62222,62244,62262,62276,62297,62310,62326,62333,62337,62358,62390,62398,62413,62422,62429,62433,62443,62457,62461,62465,62478,62486,62501,62578,62610,62645,62652,62682,62689,62696,62700,62728,62741,62756,62795,62853,62892,62925,62944,62968,63002,63012,63016,63025,63082,63097,63123,63140,63154,63183,63193,63204,63265,63284,63314,63330,63346,63365,63378,63433,63464,63496,63518,63588,63606,63616,63626,63647,63654,63668,63691,63709,63725,63761,63767,63778,63795,63808],{"start":189,"end":241,"confidence":47776,"channel":192,"transcript":45249,"words":47777,"speaker":192,"id":47790},0.9710583,[47778,47779,47780,47781,47782,47783,47784,47785,47786,47787,47788,47789],{"word":188,"start":189,"end":190,"confidence":191,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":193,"punctuated_word":194},{"word":196,"start":190,"end":197,"confidence":198,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":193,"punctuated_word":196},{"word":200,"start":197,"end":201,"confidence":202,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":193,"punctuated_word":200},{"word":204,"start":205,"end":206,"confidence":207,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":193,"punctuated_word":204},{"word":209,"start":206,"end":210,"confidence":211,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":209},{"word":214,"start":210,"end":215,"confidence":216,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":214},{"word":218,"start":215,"end":219,"confidence":220,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":218},{"word":222,"start":219,"end":223,"confidence":224,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":225},{"word":227,"start":223,"end":228,"confidence":229,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":230},{"word":232,"start":228,"end":233,"confidence":234,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":232},{"word":236,"start":233,"end":237,"confidence":238,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":236},{"word":240,"start":237,"end":241,"confidence":242,"speaker":192,"speaker_confidence":212,"punctuated_word":243},"8f7552c9-1f2c-4592-893e-8169c5265d3a",{"start":246,"end":579,"confidence":47792,"channel":192,"transcript":47793,"words":47794,"speaker":192,"id":47874},0.9433221,"Ich bin hier im hybriden Studio und hab 2 Leute mit mir hier sitzen, auf die ich mich beide sehr freue. Und zwar nämlich einmal sitzt endlich mal wieder der Seebe neben mir. Hi, Garelt. Hallo. Ich freu mich auch. Ja, ist 'n cooles Thema auch heute. Und für dieses Thema haben wir uns den Alexander Lichter eingeladen. Hallo Alex. Hallo Sevi, hallo Garel. 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