[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":58337},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/cto-special-35-fabian-hagen-von-faaren":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":104,"speakerCount":105,"relatedPodcasts":106,"transcript":107},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":36,"members":65,"picks_of_the_day":99,"tags":100,"tagsPrepared":101,"speakersPrepared":102},"ad68e605-3990-4343-a388-9154eecce909","2025-11-18T05:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#35","Fabian Hagen von Faaren","cto-special-35-fabian-hagen-von-faaren","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Jährlich schreiben Hunderttausende Studierende ihre Bachelor-Arbeit in Deutschland, doch nur selten entsteht daraus ein ganzes Unternehmen. Fabian Haigen, CTO bei Faaren. hat genau das geschafft.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Gemeinsam mit Kommiliton:innen gründete Fabian im Rahmen einer Projektarbeit eines der ersten deutschen Mobility-Start-ups für Auto-Abos. Aus dem studentischen Projekt mit fünf Personen wurde ein wachsendes Unternehmen mit Dutzenden Mitarbeitenden.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Wir sprechen mit Fabian über seinen Weg und erfahren, wie wichtig sein Gründungsteam für ihn war und was er auf dieser Reise gelernt hat. Fabian berichtet uns von der anfänglichen Wahl des Tech-Stacks für das Projekt und dem Wandel hin zu einer modernen, White-Label-fähigen Architektur. Außerdem geht es darum, wie wichtig insbesondere die ersten Angestellten sind, wie man die richtigen Kandidat:innen findet und wie ein Bewerbungsprozess im Start-up funktionieren kann.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Zum Abschluss geht es um Fabians Entwicklung vom einzigen Entwickler der gesamten Infrastruktur zum Leiter eines großen Teams. Dabei erfahren wir, welche Prozesse das Team finden musste und an welchen (Code-)Stellen Fabian bis heute leidenschaftlich gerne involviert ist.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18177559-cto-special-35-fabian-hagen-von-faaren.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"60c442f1-3b45-494a-9ade-d8f943b448c4","Cto35 Fabian Hagen","60c442f1-3b45-494a-9ade-d8f943b448c4.png","cto35_Fabian Hagen.png",{},"image/png","1750630","2025-11-12T13:59:15.266Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-11-12T13:59:15.187Z",1500,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":34,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"a7d78c7f-1ad7-4e99-ba4a-142bc2d839e2","Fabian Hagen Profile","a7d78c7f-1ad7-4e99-ba4a-142bc2d839e2.png","Fabian Hagen_profile.png",{},"432661","2025-11-12T14:01:47.790Z","2025-11-12T14:01:47.788Z",1024,[37],{"speaker":38},{"id":39,"slug":40,"academic_title":12,"occupation":41,"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"description":44,"event_image":45,"profile_image":56},"b0d232a4-b4ef-4590-9a27-a653bce95fb2","fabian-hagen","CTO bei Faaren","Fabian","Hagen","\u003Cp>Fabian ist CTO und Co-Founder bei FAAREN, einem der führenden Anbeiter für Auto-Abos in Deutschland. Fabians Expertise liegt in digitalen Paymentlösungen, SaaS-Anwendungen sowie AI-gestützter Automatisierung und Optimierung unternehmensweiter Prozesse. Durch seine langjährige Arbeit bei FAAREN hat er tiefe Einblicke in die Evolution komplexer SaaS-Systeme und die persönliche Entwicklung vom Mitgründer und Entwickler hin zur technischen Führungskraft erlebt.\u003C/p>",{"id":46,"title":47,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":48,"filename_download":49,"metadata":50,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"dfedba51-bf72-4b64-b5d0-180a521b01c0","Fabian Hagen Event","dfedba51-bf72-4b64-b5d0-180a521b01c0.jpg","Fabian Hagen_event.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","852994","2025-11-12T14:02:14.251Z","2025-11-12T14:02:14.249Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":58,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":59,"filename_download":60,"metadata":61,"type":20,"filesize":62,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":63,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":64,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"a1707ec1-4369-4bd3-a43c-03b69e2fdfa5","Fabian Hagen Speaker Profile","a1707ec1-4369-4bd3-a43c-03b69e2fdfa5.png","Fabian Hagen_speaker_profile.png",{},"452008","2025-11-12T14:02:09.634Z","2025-11-12T14:02:09.630Z",[66,83],{"member":67},{"id":68,"first_name":69,"last_name":70,"occupation":71,"description":72,"normal_image":73},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":74,"title":75,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":76,"filename_download":77,"metadata":78,"type":51,"filesize":79,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":81,"uploaded_on":82,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":84},{"id":85,"first_name":86,"last_name":87,"occupation":88,"description":89,"normal_image":90},"af60e6ac-beb7-4eff-8fe8-bb017558368e","Garrelt","Mock","// Software Developer // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Garrelt bereichert das Podcast-Team mit seinem umfangreichen Wissen über eine Vielzahl von Tech-Themen. Seine Leidenschaft für Mobile Games hat er eindrucksvoll bewiesen, als er noch im Studium sein eigenes Spiel entwickelte.\u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht mit seiner kleinen Familie im selbst umgebauten Van die Welt erkundet, genießt er es, historische Burgen zu besichtigen. Garrelt findet den Ausgleich zwischen digitaler und analoger Welt spannend und integriert so viel wie möglich davon in seinen Alltag. Seine vielseitigen Interessen und seine Begeisterung für Technologie machen ihn zu einer wertvollen Ergänzung des Teams.\u003C/p>",{"id":91,"title":92,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":93,"filename_download":94,"metadata":95,"type":51,"filesize":96,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":97,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":81,"uploaded_on":98,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0","Garrelt CD","a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0.jpg","Garrelt_CD.jpg",{},"672932","2024-07-29T14:31:27.028Z","2024-07-29T14:31:26.899Z",[],[],[],[103],{"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"profile_image":56,"slug":40,"description":44,"event_image":45,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":108,"service":109,"supported_features":110,"speakers":113,"raw_response":121},"45de1cc4-4741-4858-aea0-aef24409cd2e","deepgram",[111,112],"timestamps","diarization",[114,117,119],{"identifier":115,"name":116},"0","Jan",{"identifier":118,"name":86},"1",{"identifier":120,"name":42},"2",{"metadata":122,"results":136},{"transaction_key":123,"request_id":124,"sha256":125,"created":126,"duration":127,"channels":128,"models":129,"model_info":131},"deprecated","1a998fc6-5c27-4a71-9968-c96061c5d06e","18f7f775cf5c62fcd62d57948917e23a67b91ef3e83f2bf14bbdf2bfa39038d8","2025-11-12T11:55:09.954Z",4513.858,1,[130],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":132},{"name":133,"version":134,"arch":135},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":137,"utterances":40379},[138],{"alternatives":139},[140],{"transcript":141,"confidence":142,"words":143,"paragraphs":37680},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen CTO Special hier in der Programmierer, heute mit 1 Besonderheit. Und zwar nicht nur, dass der Garrit mit mir hier am Start ist. Hi, Garrit. Hi. Sondern dass wir einen Gast haben, der schon mal bei uns war und es aber irgendwie nie zu euch nach draußen zu den Hörerinnen und Hörern geschafft hat aus Gründen, die ich nicht nachvollziehen konnte. Wir haben versucht, das irgendwie im Archiv wiederzufinden, die Folge, die da mal aufgenommen wurde, und haben dann einfach beschlossen, wir nehmen sie noch mal auf. Wir haben heute im im Gast zum Studio, zu im Studio zu Gast, oh mein Gott, das ist noch sehr früh. Fabian Hagen. Hallo Fabian, schön, dass Du da bist. Ich grüße euch. Fabian, Du bist CTO und Mitgründer bei Fahren. Das ist richtig, ja. Und so wie ich das verstanden hab in der Biografie, habt ihr Fahren direkt in Schrägstrich nach der Uni Zeit gegründet. Genau, wir haben direkt in der Uni angefangen als Projektarbeit im sechsten Semester. Und das hat dann so gut funktioniert, dass wir gesagt haben, wir ziehen das komplett durch und gehen direkt in die Gründung und betreiben das seitdem jetzt. Und unabhängig von der vielleicht etwas esoterischen Schreibweise, hat Fahren durchaus was mit Autofahren zu tun? Ja, da tatsächlich ist das die Anlehnung son bisschen daran, ne, da einfach eine gewisse Nähe und Klarheit dann auch zu schaffen. Und für alle da draußen, die das jetzt grade versuchen zu googeln, fahren schreibt man mit Doppel-a. Und ohne Weil das h schon ausverkauft war oder was? Ja, das war uns dann doch zu plump. Ah, okay. Genau, also FAAREN fahren. Vielleicht kannst Du einmal ganz kurz beschreiben, was er eigentlich macht und dann sprechen wir darüber, wie er das gemacht hat. Ja, sehr gerne. Also im Kern sind wir einen Marktplatz für Auto Abo. Also Auto Abo für diejenigen, die jetzt noch nicht so geläufig ist, ist quasi eine Alternative zu Leasing, Finanzierung, Kauf und Kurzzeitmiete. Also sprich, wir reden hier auch über Laufzeiten von mindestens einem Monat, aber bis hin zu wirklich 36 Monate, also als starke Alternative zu Leasing. Ja, und das betreiben wir halt, wie schon gesagt, als Marktplatz. Das heißt, wir bringen auf der einen Seite unsere Händler, also unsere Partner, was dann so der normale kleine Schotterplatz Autohändler sein kann, aber auch OEM Hersteller direkt oder auch Banken zusammen mit dem Endkunden auf der anderen Seite, das dann der Single ist, der einfach gerne mal 'n sportliches Auto ausprobieren möchte oder die Familie, die irgendwie einen kleinen Muttiwellen braucht, damit in den Urlaub zu fahren, bis hin zu Geschäftskunden oder auch kleinen mittelständischen Firmen, die dann bei uns ihren Fuhrparkservice oder ihren Fuhrpark haben. Und Automiete, also Langzeitmiete, nicht jetzt so SIX oder so was, ne, ist ja ein Modell, was, glaub ich, in den letzten Jahren doch deutlich bekannter geworden ist. Aber ihr betreibt das Ganze ja schon länger. So zur zeitlichen Einordnung, wann seid ihr mit Fahren gestartet? Also wir haben jetzt im September siebenjähriges Jubiläum gefeiert, ne. Das ganze Projekt läuft jetzt schon fast 8 Jahre, ne. Wie gesagt, wir haben an der Uni gestartet. Da ist auch die Idee hergekommen, weil letztlich 1 unserer Mitgründer das Ganze mal aus den USA mit aufgeschnappt hatte. Und wir uns dann gedacht haben, wir probieren das einfach mal in Deutschland. Also in Summe sind's jetzt fast 8 Jahre, in denen wir das betreiben. Und damit wart ihr ja mit 1 oder die Ersten, die das hierzulande angeboten haben? Mit die Ersten, ja. Genau. Eigentlich von Anfang an mit dabei. Aber es war schon, hat das ein Projekt, was ihr für die Uni gemacht habt erst? Also es war irgendwie eine Aufgabe oder auch eine Abgabe. Und dann habt ihr danach einfach gedacht, okay, ihr wolltet rauskriegen Oder wo stand 'n das Projekt nach der nach diesem nach der Abgabe? War es dann schon so, okay, es läuft schon, ne, ihr könnt schon 'n Kunden drauf lassen oder war's dann noch sehr viel mehr Nee, wir hatten's denn Glück zu machen. Wir hatten tatsächlich die ersten Buchungen dann. Also kurz zur Einordnung, wir sind alle quasi an der THWS in Würzburg gewesen, haben dort alle E-Commerce studiert, der gesamte Gründerkreis im selben Jahrgang. Mhm. Und im fünften Semester ist man dann ja quasi draußen in der Wirtschaft, sag ich mal, irgendwann in der Firma, macht's sein Praxissemester. Also wir reden von 'nem Bachelorstudiengang, ne? Genau, Bachelorstudiengang. Und im sechsten Semester musste man sich in kleinen Projektgruppen zusammenfinden und dann irgendwas im sechsten Semester auf die Beine stellen. Ne, E-Commerce-Studiengang war da ganz praktisch, weil da halt letztlich sich alles zusammenkommt von Onlinemarketing, Programmierung, aber auch 'n bisschen BWL Part. Und dann haben wir das da eben angefangen, hatten dann auch unser erstes Partner Autohaus in Würzburg und dann tatsächlich unsere ersten Buchungen. Und das war dann eben der Punkt, an dem wir gesagt haben, gut, das scheint zu funktionieren, wir gehen den nächsten Schritt. Jetzt fühl ich mich ehrlicherweise 'n bisschen schlecht mit meiner grottigen Bachelorarbeit, weil da ist irgendwie keine Firma draus geworden. Aber aber es, also ich mein, ist ja cool, so. Aber wie wie muss man sich das vorstellen? Weil a, brauchst Du ja schon mal die richtige Gruppe an Menschen dafür, ne. Wie Du schon gesagt hast, Du brauchst jemanden, der das 'n bisschen baut. Du brauchst irgendwie jemand, der die Idee mitbringt, jemand, der vielleicht son bisschen das Betriebswirtschaftliche da irgendwie sich mehr anguckt und das Modell mal durchrechnet, ob das sich überhaupt so tragen kann. Wie habt ihr so zueinander gefunden und wie habt ihr die Aufgaben verteilt? Weil ich hab jetzt zwar nicht E-Commerce studiert, aber ich würde es mir eher als son sehr generalistischen Studiengang vielleicht vorstellen, ja. Und dann ist ja gar nicht gesagt, ne, dass da überhaupt Leute drin sind, die jetzt supergerne programmieren wollen oder die supergerne irgendwie mit Buchhaltung beschäftigen. Und wie seid ihr da zueinandergekommen? Ja, lustigerweise saßen wir eigentlich schon fast ab dem ersten Semester immer zusammen, so in 1 in 1 Reihe, ne. Hatten da dann auch schon unsere Spezialisierungen. Also ich war schon immer der der programmieraffine Typ, hab dann da halt auch bei den entsprechenden Modulen mitgeholfen, den Leuten, die jetzt nicht programmieren konnten. Auf der anderen Seite hatten wir dann halt unseren Mitgründer Konstantin, der halt Marketing gemacht hat. Der hatte das vor dem Studium, war ja schon in Marketingagenturen, hat das quasi schon beruflich ausgeübt, ja. Daniel, unser Geschäftsführer, ist schon immer Start upaffin gewesen, war schon immer in dem Bereich tätig. Also Fundraising war da letztlich auch nichts Neues für ihn. Und der Rest war dann Learning by Doing, ne. Also ich mein, wir hatten dann noch 2 andere Mitgründer mit dabei. Und dann waren wir in allen Bereichen eigentlich vertreten. Also von dem operativen Geschäft, was so financehemen angeht, People and culture, LEGäten Themen über Marketing, Produktmanagement, Development. Also wir waren dann eigentlich so divers aufgestellt, dass wir von vornherein alle, sag mal, alle Fähigkeiten hatten, anzufangen zumindest. Und für diese Studienarbeit war das Ziel, ein Produkt zu entwickeln oder ein Geschäft, weil da gehört ja viel mehr dazu, ne. Du musst es irgendwie anmelden, Du musst es richtig aufsetzen. Du musst brauchst echte zahlende Kunden, Du brauchst Supplier auf der anderen Seite so. Was war die Aufgabe? Also wolltet ihr eigentlich nur den Marktplatz bauen und das hat sich so ergeben, dass es tatsächlich funktioniert hat? Oder war von Anfang an so die Idee, nee, nee, da sollen auch irgendwie, da soll Geld drüberfließen? Na ja, also das Ziel in dieser Projektarbeit war dann eigentlich eher so das Konzept dahinter, son maximal son proof of Konzept und der Rest hat sich dann danach ergeben. Mit welcher Note habt ihr das abgeschlossen? Das wollt's auch grad. Also ich mein, das das kann ja nicht besser laufen, als dass es irgendwie läuft so, oder? Ich glaub, das war tatsächlich dann auch eine 1. Das Ja. War dann ganz praktisch, ja. Und das wär schon lustig gewesen, wenn das nicht so gewesen wär, ne. Ja, nee, die Idee ist nicht so gut und die Umsetzung auch nicht. Also so eine 3 kriegt er, aber dann Da da gibt's aber, ich hab neulich in der Biografie gelesen, dass der Gründer von FedEx, so die ja dieses Overnightshipping erfunden haben eigentlich, ne, das Konzept auch in der Uniarbeit vorgestellt hatte. Und das revolutioniert halt alles, ne. So Marketing über und Vertrieb über das ganze Land und alles wird möglich und bla. Und sein Professor hat ihm halt gesagt, so, niemals funktioniert das und der ist irgendwie durchgefallen damit. Und dann hat er das halt irgendwie Jahre später aufgebaut und so richtig in Your Face halt irgendwie bei jeder Gelegenheit das den dann noch mal reingerieben so. Ja. Also kann auch anders laufen, ja. Ja. Cool. Wie habt ihr euch diesem Aufbau genähert? Also ich mein, heute kann man das ja sagen, ne, also es hat ja offensichtlich geklappt, es ist erfolgreich, es läuft, es wächst. Du hast 'n 'n Team, was ihr da irgendwie in den Entwicklungen habt. Wie viele Leute seid ihr? Also over all sind wir so die 40 und ungefähr ein Drittel davon ist rein Produktentwicklung. Okay. Das war ja quasi so vor 7 Jahren nicht nicht abzusehen so. Da warst Du ja quasi technisch eine One Man Show, wie ich das verstanden hab. Wie trifft man da dann Entscheidungen, wenn man so am Anfang steht und noch relativ alleine ist und so wie es ja auch klang, die anderen jetzt vielleicht nicht die besten technischen Sparringspartner waren an der Stelle, ja. Wie entscheidet man sich da fürn Stack, für eine Toolchain? Wie setzt man das auf? Wie hast Du sich dem genährt? Ja, tatsächlich eher bin ich dann auf die Tools gegangen, die mir schon vertraut waren. Also wir, unser Text Stack ist lässig PHP mit 'nem Ravelle Framework, im Frontend nutzen wir View. Js. Und das war das, was ich halt in anderen Projekten dann auch schon mal verwendet hatte. Mhm. Dementsprechend war ich da recht vertraut mit und dann war die Entscheidung relativ schnell klar, ne. Wir hatten kurz überlegt, gehen wir aufn Wordpress, fangen damit an, weil's am Anfang halt deutlich schneller ans Laufen kommt. Oder nehmen wir irgendwie 'n Shopsystem, 'n Shopware beispielsweise und haben uns dann aber aktiv dagegen entschieden, einfach mit dem Grund der Flexibilität, die irgendwann dann doch eingeschränkt ist, ne. Klar, am Anfang tut man sich leichter, später ist man aber sehr stark eingeschränkt. Und das hätten wir jetzt halt mit Lara Wellen in dem Fall jetzt nicht gehabt. Weißt Du noch, wie lange Du da ungefähr dran gesessen hast, bis das so, ich sag mal, die ersten 80 Prozent fertig war? Oh, jetzt muss ich ganz kurz nachrechnen. Das war ja bestimmt einen halbes Dreivierteljahr. Okay. Ja. Okay. Was ist nicht viel finde für so Auch 'n recht komplexes System, also Und für eine Person alleine, also Ja, genau. Ja, ja. Na, ist ja so. Wenn Du allein, wenn Du überlegst jetzt so, Frontend, Backend, dann hast Du gesagt, Du hast das mit View gemacht. Also es ist ja auch jetzt nicht Server Side Renderd und irgendwie alles easy peasy, sondern das mit 'ner API wahrscheinlich dann auch irgendwie ordentlich gebaut so. Nicht von Anfang an? Nee. Also wir waren am Aber man waren ja auch injecten und dann rausrändern. Ja, eben. Das gibt sich alles. Nee, also wir waren am Anfang wirklich rein monolithisch unterwegs und wir haben da auch viel mit Bladern gemacht. Also VJS kam dann tatsächlich erst später dazu. Okay. Und ich muss auch sagen, ich war nicht ganz alleine. Wir hatten einen Studienkollegen, der sich die Fronttendhemen gekümmert hat am Anfang, ne, der dann grade so die Marktplatzseite, also alles, was dann wirklich Endkunden facing ist, hat er uns dann abgenommen oder mir abgenommen. Aber wenn Du sagst, ihr habt das vor 8 Jahren angefangen und selbst wenn ihr jetzt nicht ganz am Anfang auf View gesetzt habt, aber irgendwie dann zeitnah ja wahrscheinlich, dann wart ihr ja auch bei View noch relativ früh. Also nicht mehr in soner Alpha- oder Betaphase, aber es war ja zumindest noch View 1, wenn überhaupt schon. Gaga, weil es ist wahrscheinlich auch 'n bisschen besser als ich. Aber View ist ja jetzt ja auch noch nicht so ultraalt. Nee, also wir sind mit 2 sind wir da aktiv rein. Also View 2 hatten wir wirklich produktiven Einsatz und davor war's dann noch, dass wir dann eher halt, wie gesagt, mit Blade und dann hatten wir so plaen Blut mit drin. Okay. Ja. Wie seid ihr bei View gelandet? Weil ich mein, vor 7, 8 Jahren, da war ja auch Angela grade noch son bisschen populärer, als das jetzt grade ist. React war schon sehr dominant. Wie sah so der Entscheidungsprozess aus? Es war jetzt für mein Empfinden sehr zugänglich. Also letztlich hab ich mich dann da mit den gängigen Framework auseinandergesetzt. Und View. J. S war damals son bisschen am Kommen und war dann auch sehr, ja, sehr breit gestreut auch in die News, wenn man sich damit beschäftigt hat und dann halt mal getestet und für gut befunden und eingebaut. Ist tatsächlich was, was ich so schon öfter gehört hab. Also als die sagen so, na ja, wenn Du jetzt nicht gleich irgendwie große bauen willst und so sich son bisschen dem nähern willst, hier mal 'n kleines Widget, da eine Komponente, dann ist irgendwie View Genau. Das, was am Genau. Am lesbarsten und zugänglichsten irgendwie erscheint. Genau, wir konnten's halt auch dann einfach sukzessive einbauen, ne. Ich mein, ich glaub, Angular war ja so, man musste ja all in gehen quasi, damit zu starten. Und View js konnte man dann eher partiell nutzen, ne. Dann haben wir beispielsweise mitm Checkout angefangen, haben dort Teile mit gebaut, nach und nach dann andere Teile nachgezogen und das war halt einfach angenehmer. Mhm. Weil Du grade den Checkout ansprichst, ihr seid ja 'n Marktplatz, weil ihr quasi die Verträge für die Automietung vermittelt, nicht wahr? Ja. Das heißt, kürört ihr euch auch Geld? Ja. Wie war das so? Weil ich weiß, als ich das erste Mal was gebaut hab, wo dann wirklich so Geld durch die Gegend geschoben wird, da wird man so als Entwickler 'n bisschen nervös. Also wenn jetzt hier was passiert und ich muss hier irgendwie, weiß ich, eine Kreditkarte belasten und dann wirklich was einziehen oder ich muss hier eine Transaktion anstoßen oder so was, das ist ja irgendwie was anderes, als irgendwie mal eine Zeile in der Datenbank zu verrutschen. Ja. Habt ihr da was selbst Gebautes genommen? Habt ihr da irgendwie 'n verwendet? Wie sah das damals aus? Wie sieht das heute aus? Also damals waren wir, quasi, 'n bisschen hemdsärmelig auch unterwegs, muss man so sagen, ne. Kreditkartendaten im Klartext in die Esculette geschrieben. Genau, einfach so direkt die secrets weggeschrieben. Nee, das nicht, also so schlimm war's ja nicht. Aber tatsächlich haben wir dann auch uns vom von den Business hat sich 'n bisschen gewandelt, also ganz am Anfang hatten wir auch der Mobilitätsanbieter. Also mehr oder weniger hatten wir dann die Autos vom Händler übernommen und waren dann direkt im Mietvertrag mit dem Kunden. Das haben wir irgendwann gedreht, weil wir gemerkt haben, da gehört dann so viel anderes noch dazu rein, was die das Management der Fahrzeuge angeht, dass wir das dann gedreht haben zu diesem Marktplatzkonstrukt, wie wir's jetzt haben. Und bei den Payment Sachen sind wir letztlich dann auf Stripe gegangen, ne, weil die technisch sehr zugänglich waren. Die waren damals schon von ihrer API sehr gut dokumentiert, sehr gut zugänglich und damit konnten wir dann sehr schnell die Zahlungen auch sicher abwickeln, ne. Und entsprechend auch dieses Marktplatzkonstrukt, also letztlich haben wir dann auch bei Stripe diese Connect Funktionalität, wo wir dann als Plattform agieren und dort die Händler anschließen, jeweils mit 'nem eigenen Stripeaccount. Mhm. Und die Gelder quasi dann durch die Gegend schieben und sogar nicht BaFin Lizenz oder sonst irgendwas kümmern müssen. Ja. Ja. Ja, Stripe hat echt eine eine coole Dokumentation. Als ich noch Developer Relations gemacht hab, war an verschiedenen Stellen eigentlich Stripe immer so der Goldstandard, den man so erreichen will. Stripe, Twilio sind so die ganz Großen da draußen, die echt coole und auch so interaktive Dokumentationen so pioniert haben. Ja. Nice. Und die haben uns auch wirklich gut in in allen möglichen Edge Cases, die wir so hatten, gut betreut und ja, fühlen uns einfach auch so gut aufgehoben. Was ist son Edge Case in der Autovermietung? Also das ist dann eher so von den Vertragskonstrukt her, ne, weil vieles machen wir halt direkt über die API. Also wir nutzen Stripes nicht übers Dashboard. Mhm. Ne, das machen wir dann in seltenen Fällen mal, wenn wir den Abovertrag irgendwie anpassen müssen, den den Betrag et cetera. Und manchmal entstehen dann ganz komische Konstrukte, sagen wir, auf der Datenseite, die man irgendwie aufdröseln muss oder aufräumen muss und dann stellenweise auch wirklich weit in die Historie zurückgehen muss, weil das dann beispielsweise 'n Abo war, das zustande gekommen ist, bevor wir das Konstrukt gedreht haben, ne. Das vertraglich Konstrukt dahinter. Ja, und die habt ihr alle migriert sozusagen, ja. Ja, oder manche halt dann halt auch nicht, weil die durchgefallen sind. Und da braucht man halt einfach Stripesupport und die haben dann immer gut mitgeholfen. Cool. Wie, ich hatte gelesen und weil Du's auch grad ansprichst, dass Fahren öfter mal das Geschäftsmodell wechseln musste, damit ihr auch irgendwie langfristig gut aufgestellt seid. Hat das auch viele Änderungen bei dir verursacht? Also musstest Du da Also vielleicht erst mal die Frage, was waren das für Geschäftsmodelländerungen und wie viel Aufwand hattest Du da auch mit Dinge umzubauen? Und wie viel konntest Du da von dem, was Du schon hattest, verwenden? Ja. Also das das Erste, was ich jetzt schon angesprochen hatte, dass wir einfach die Vertragsbeziehung geändert haben, hin von soner, ich sag mal, linearen Vertrag, wo wir in der Mitte stehen, hin zu 'nem eher Dreieckskonstrukt. Das war tatsächlich relativ unproblematisch, auch technisch betrachtet. Wir haben ja dann aber noch andere Sachen neben dem Marktplatz. Beispielsweise haben wir uns dazu entschlossen, dass wir auch 'n bisschen Richtung SAST Provider gehen, quasi White Label Lösungen entwickeln, die wir dann unseren Partnern anbieten können. Und neben der White Label halt auch APIs, sodass wir dann quasi wirklich direkt integriert werden können. Das heißt, wenn ich als BMW meine eigene Vermietung, Langzeitvermietung starten will, dann kann ich jetzt quasi euer euer Set-up nutzen. Genau, dass es dann einfach unter der eigenen Brand läuft, ne. Und je nachdem, wie weit die Integration oder wie technisch affin denn der Partner ist, geht das halt von der White Label quasi einen One Click Setup, sag ich jetzt mal, bis hin zu, man möchte das schon bestehende Systeme integrieren über die API, wo's dann sehr technisch wird. Mhm. Okay. Und das war dann technisch natürlich schon 'n dickeres Brett, was wir bohren mussten, ne, weil wir dann auch die ganze Infrastruktur und die Systemarchitektur dahinter infrage gestellt haben, geguckt haben, wie bringen wir das jetzt eigentlich mit den Monolithen, die wir damals noch hatten, halt wirklich in Einklang. Und wie habt ihr das gelöst? Man kann ja so White Label Sachen im Prinzip immer auf 2 Arten lösen. Entweder man setzt son Multitanant System auf, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Anwendung, die im Prinzip läuft, aber halt verschiedene, was der deutsche Begriff für Tenant, Kunden im Prinzip so unterstützt. Oder man instanziert halt dieselbe Codebase irgendwie siebenundzwanzigmal jeweils mit kleinen Änderungen. Ja. Da haben wir uns dagegen entschieden. Wir wollten jetzt nicht dann lauter verschiedene Codebases haben. Es stand zwar mal im Raum, weil wir überlegt haben, gut, wenn jetzt 'n Kunde wirklich sehr hohe Individualisierungsansprüche hat, würde man sie sicherlich leichter tun, wenn man die gesamte Codebase irgendwie dupliziert. Bück natürlich unglaubliche Gefahren, weil dann hat man 'n paar Klienten, die das sehr individuell haben wollten und rucki zucki hat man einfach massiv viele unterschiedliche Codebases und keiner blickt mehr durch, ne. Deswegen haben wir uns dagegen entschieden. Wir haben dann gesagt, okay, die zentrale Geschäftslogik ist die gleiche, auch wenn ich jetzt eine White Label hab oder das über die API passiert. Von daher haben wir gesagt, wir behalten die bei uns im Kernsystem und haben dann für die White Labels außenrum kleinere spezialisierte Services gebaut, beispielsweise für das Konfigurationsmanagement, dann der Shop an sich, der White Label Shop ist quasi auch losgelöst von unserem zentralen System, sodass wir da wirklich auf diese individuellen Anforderungen eingehen konnten. Und von der Architektur haben wir's so gemacht, wir haben quasi eine skaliefige Instanz davonstehen, die je nachdem, über welche URL das aufgerufen wird, mit welchen Konfigurationsparametern, dann halt spezifisch die Kunden die Kundenkonfiguration lädt, ne, und das entsprechend dann halt anders aussieht und sich anders verhält. Ist ist die Herausforderung bei soner Whitelabelösung eher der der Shop und das das Frontend, weil es soll bei, weiß nicht, BMW halt irgendwie sehr nach deren CI aussehen. Und bei, ich sag mal, dem nächstbesten Autohaus ist es irgendwie egal, die wollen nur ihr Logo drin haben so ungefähr, ja. Oder ist die Challenge eher, also ich hab von Autos jetzt ehrlicherweise nicht ultraviel Ahnung, aber ich stell mir vor, dass es halt 1000000000 unterschiedliche SKUs sind, weil ja kein Auto im Prinzip zweimal sozusagen vorkommt, ne. Es kommt irgendwie zu euch mit 'nem anderen Baujahr, mit 'ner anderen Erstzulassung. Also die unterscheiden sich ja quasi alle. Und es ist nicht so, dass Du jetzt sagst, ich leg hier einmal mein Auto an und hab davon 100 Stück auf Lager und wart jetzt, bis die alle weg sind, sondern das ist ja wahrscheinlich super pflegeintensiv, diesen Produktkatalog da irgendwie aufzubauen. Ja, es geht tatsächlich. Also wir haben uns dann 'n bisschen generalistisch gehalten. Also letztlich haben wir die Möglichkeit, bei uns die Fahrzeuge dann individuell anzulegen, also wirklich das eine physische Fahrzeug. Wir haben auch die Möglichkeit, dann stapeln, nennen wir's bei uns anzulegen, also dass dann halt 'n großer Händler sagt, ich hab jetzt einhundert Ford Focus. Und dann legt er das einmal an mit den spezifischen Ausstattungsmerkmalen und sagt halt, davon hab ich 100. Ja und dann duplizieren wir das Fahrzeug im Hintergrund, wenn das Abo startet, dann haben wir ja das physische Fahrzeug, dann können wir das anreichern, die notwendigen Attribute noch. Also das war jetzt nicht das so Problematische. Problematisch war's oder herausfordernder war's eher die spezifischen Anforderungen, ne. Dann gibt's 'n Kunde, der möchte 'n geschlossenen Shop haben. Also man kommt nur rein auf Einladung oder nur mit vorheriger Registrierung, der andere möcht's offenhalten. Wieder jemand anderes möchte da seine eigenen Gutscheine und Coupons irgendwie drin haben. Und das war dann wesentlich herausfordernder, das dann zu realisieren. Ohne jetzt zu viel von euren Geschäftszahlen zu verraten, aber wie viele von diesen White Labelösungen unterhaltet ihr so? Ja, die sind Größenordnungen reicht. Ja, so im oberen zweistelligen Bereich. Okay. Aber ihr macht das, ihr habt ja euren eigenen Marketplace, ne? Ja. Und kannst Du denn sagen, was Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr diese White Level Lösung ja danach aufgesetzt habt. Also ihr hättet euer Marketplace, habt gesehen, okay, andere kommen zu uns und fragen, ob sie das auch haben können. War das denn, also ist das jetzt der größere Geschäftsbereich eigentlich? Oder fokussiert ihr euch hauptsächlich auf eure eigene Plattform? Oder läuft das so parallel? Also was ist so euer Hauptfokus? Fokus ist der Marktplatz, ne. Das ist wirklich unser unser Kerngeschäft, auf den wir uns so konzentrieren. Mhm. Und das andere sind dann eher so Sachen, die wir quasi mit in die Waagschale werfen können, ne, wenn's dann die Entscheidungsfindung beim Partner geht und beim Kunden und sagt, okay, wir bieten halt noch das an und das an. Und das ist dann halt immer gern gesehen, weil sich das gegenseitig halt auch, ich sag jetzt mal befruchtet, ne. Weil wir beispielsweise Kunden, die eine Whitelabel benutzen, die können wir ja trotzdem auf dem Marktplatz Reichweite generieren, ne. Und das ist halt schon mal 'n wichtiger Punkt, weil wir gemerkt haben, 'n Partner, der das komplett selbstständig machen möchte, muss zum einen halt die Softwareentwicklung ja irgendwie Inhouse machen oder über eine Agentur, die er selbst steuert. Dann muss er Marketing machen. Er muss halt wirklich dahinter sein. Er muss 'n operatives Team aufbauen, was dann das Ganze betreut. Und das ist halt eine unglaublich höhere hohe Einstiegshürde. Und über unseren Marktplatz und darüber, dass wir halt dann auch beispielsweise 'n Endkundensupport mit übernehmen, ist der Einstieg wesentlich einfacher, ne. Und dann kann man quasi das Beste aus den beiden Systemen nutzen. Was vorhin auch gesagt, dass es euch schon wichtig war, dass das dieselbe Codebase am Ende bleibt und nicht so sehr fragmentiert wird. Wie viele Momente habt ihr so, wo ihr in eure Codebase dann 'n Feature einbaut, was jetzt ein neuer Kunde sich beispielsweise wünscht. Und der Marktplatz, andere Kunden profitieren auch davon versus wie oft baut ihr Lösungen eigentlich nur für einen Kunden und die anderen haben da nicht so viel davon? Ja, das war tatsächlich 'n Lernprozess, den wir auch in der gesamten Firma durchlaufen mussten. Ganz am Anfang waren wir natürlich davon getrieben, immer möglichst große Kunden zu bekommen und da haben wir auch sehr viel sehr individuell gemacht, ja. Und da sind wir mittlerweile komplett von weg. Also alles, was wir jetzt einbauen, bauen wir so, dass es für den für das gesamte System genutzt werden kann. Und macht dir das auch so, dass es dann automatisch für alle anderen Kunden auch erscheint? Weil das ist ja immer so, beim Multitalant Systemen die Frage, ne, diese ganzen Features, die Du quasi quer subventionierst durch deine anderen Kunden, willst Du die anderen Kunden auch gleich zur Verfügung stellen oder ist das son Upselling Ding dann eher oder habt ihr son, weiß nicht, 'n getiertes Pricing Modell oder so? Wie wie entscheidet ihr, welche neuen Features an wen ausgerollt werden? Oder kriegt einfach jeder alles immer? Nee, das bekommt nicht jeder pauschal. Das machen wir son bisschen abhängig vom Feature selbst. Mhm. Oder ist es jetzt Beispiel beispielsweise eine Erweiterung in der API, dann ist das eigentlich eher für alle verfügbar. Ist es jetzt eher was, sagen wir, bei uns in der in der Verwaltungsoberfläche, bei uns im Partner Dashboard ist, dann machen wir's auch mal abhängig davon, ob wir da vielleicht 'n kleines Preispaket draus schnüren und das dann quasi son Add on ist, was 'n Partner buchen kann bei uns. Und nutzt ihr für so was Feature Flex? Macht ihr das kundenspezifisch wie, also ich musste so was auch mal bauen, deswegen würd ich so superinteressiert daran, ja, und ich weiß, in welche Löcher man da irgendwie alles fallen kann. Konfiguriert ihr das wirklich pro jedem Kunden neu oder habt ihr euch einmal so überlegt, okay, es gibt hier Kundenprofil ABC und je nachdem, wo Du dann reinfällst, kriegst Du halt irgendwie Features oder eben nicht? Also wir haben son kleine selbst gebaute Feature Flag, son kleines Feature Fleck System, wo wir das dann halt aktivieren pro Partner. Genau. Ja. Cool. Du hast vorhin gesagt, ihr habt im Zuge dessen auch son bisschen euch die ganze Architektur noch mal angeguckt und überlegt, wie ihr das dann so sauber aufsetzen könnt für viele Kunden dann entsprechend. Habt ihr jemals euren Gesamtstag so hinterfragt, sagt so, oh, dieses PHP und dieses Lahrvelle und View, das hat uns zwar am Anfang gut getragen. Das kann ja super legitim sein, ne. Ich find immer, man man darf so Lösungen nicht nicht zu kritisch sehen, weil immerhin haben sie sich dahin gebracht, wo Du bist und das ist ja schon irgendwie immer gut. Aber trotzdem darf man ja auch diesen Zeitpunkt nicht verpassen, einmal zu hinterfragen, ob's quasi Zeit wird, das alles mal in die Tonne zu treten und vielleicht auf, ich weiß es nicht, in Java neu zu bauen oder hast Du nicht gesehen so, ja. Wart ihr da schon? Habt ihr euch dagegen entschieden? Habt ihr euch dafür entschieden und macht das irgendwann oder wie guckt ihr heute auf diesen Stack? Ja, also wir hatten diesen Moment mindestens zweimal. Also das das eine Mal war, da wir dann uns als Team zusammengesetzt, haben gemerkt, okay, pass auf, irgendwo haben wir halt auch technische Schulden. Das System hat halt seine Macken, die es halt so hat über die 8 Jahre und haben dann uns verschiedene Technologien angeguckt. Also wir haben dann Richtung nodejas geguckt, wir haben Richtung Python geguckt und haben das dann evaluiert. Und dann hatten wir sone Phase auch noch mal mit Go. Mit Go waren wir dann tatsächlich so weit, dass wir gesagt haben, wir bauen jetzt Services mit Go, ne. Das haben wir dann auch für ein, 2 Services gemacht und wollten dann auch an unser großes Kernsystem ran. Letztlich haben wir dann aber gemerkt, dass die Lernkurve doch so steil ist und wir dadurch dann halt so abgelenkt sind von unserem Business eigentlich, ne, dass wir das Business voranbringen, dass die Gefahr zu groß war, dass der Rest eigentlich stehen bleibt. Also dass das Business, der Support, die Key Account Manager quasi mit dem arbeiten müssen, was da ist und das nicht weiter vorangetrieben werden kann. Dass wir gesagt haben, das funktioniert nicht mehr. Wir können nicht 'n kompletten Technologiesift machen an der Stelle. So, dass wir, ja? Ja. Darf ich da kurz einhalten? Das find ich so spannend. Wie habt ihr das gemerkt? Also das ist ja gar nicht so einfach zu merken, dass man da zu viel Fokus auf anderen Themen hat. Also habt ihr einfach gemerkt, okay, wir reden in Meetings über die falschen Themen zum Beispiel? Ja oder immer über dieselben Probleme, ne. Also das ist eigentlich 'n ganz guter Indikator, wenn denn 'n Key Account Manager kommt und sagt, okay, der Partner wartet jetzt seit, überspitzt gesagt, 8 Wochen dadrauf, dass dieser Back gefixt wird, ne, der jetzt nicht kritisch ist, aber den spezifischen Partner immer wieder ärgert. Und dann muss man sich halt dann irgendwann fragen, okay, haben wir jetzt die Freiheit, die technologische Freiheit wirklich, uns da auszuleben in Anführungszeichen oder müssen wir halt da erst mal 'n Schritt zurückgehen und sagen, okay, wir müssen schauen, dass das Wissen halt weiterläuft? Ja, okay. Ja, das ergibt's dann. Ja. Und letztlich die Taktik, die wir jetzt fahren, also wir nennen's jetzt bei uns Salamitaktik. Wir haben halt gemerkt, wir können einfach nicht diesen großen Switch auf einmal machen, sondern wir schauen uns einfach, wenn wir Features haben. Beispielsweise müssen wir was auf dem Katalog machen, aufm Marktplatz eine Checkout Strecke, dass wir das dann halt immer mit dem Ziel auf die neue Technologie betrachten, ne. Also unser technologisches Ziel vom vom Refactoring und so ist eigentlich, dass wir 'n zentrales API System haben, was unser Kernsystem ist, dass wir dann entsprechend dahin entwickeln, die Frontends entsprechend alle rauskoppeln, sodass die nur noch über die APIs reden. Aber das Kernsystem bleibt im PHP? Ja. Genau, das bleibt im PHP, weil es einfach den Anformen genügt, ne. Das muss man an der Stelle auch einfach so sagen. Ihr seid ja auch zu 'ner Zeit gestartet, wo PHP 'n sehr interessanten Wandel durchlebt hat, sag ich mal, ja. Also wenn ich 8, 9 Jahre zurückguck oder oder vielleicht noch 'n paar Jahre mehr, wenn Du selber mit PHP während der Studienseite angefangen hast Und dann hin zu PHP 7 und jetzt 8 sehr starke Typisierungen, die da irgendwie kommen, statische Codeanalyse, die jetzt irgendwie überall da ist. Das ist ja auch nicht mehr das, mit dem ihr angefangen habt. Ja. Wahrscheinlich. Hoffentlich. Wie habt ihr aber das geschafft, diese ganzen, ich will nicht sagen Trends, weil das Kind zu abwertend, aber diese diesen Wandel eben mitzunehmen irgendwie auch und dann da die Früchte eben auch von ernten zu können? Ja, also wir haben halt letztlich da auch immer hinterfragt, wie wir denn entwickeln, wie wir programmieren und wie wir da halt auch besser werden können und haben da halt versucht, auf dem Wege diese Sachen mitzunehmen, ne. Ob's jetzt die statische Codeanalyse ist oder ob's jetzt, sag ich mal, weggehen von unser PHP läuft irgendwo auf 'nem extra dafür konfigurierten Webserver hin zu Containerisierung, ne. Und dann sind wir auf dem Weg da immer son bisschen mit mitgegangen und mit reingerutscht. Wie schaffst Du das? Wie schafft ihr das im Team, so Sachen nebenbei zu lernen? Weil auch, wie man einen ordentlichen Container baut und deployed muss ja muss man ja mal gelernt haben, das fällt ja nicht vom Himmel so wissen. Wie wie integriert ihr das in euren Alltag? Ja, vieles ist tatsächlich Eigenmotivation, also bin ich auch recht happy über das Team, das ich hab, die da halt einfach diesen eigenen Antrieb haben, ne. Also wir haben da auch drauf geachtet, letztlich beim Aufbau des Teams, diese Eigenverantwortung und diesen, mal, die Selbstmotivation, da das System zu verbessern, dass wir das irgendwie auch immer mit mit fördern. Und auf der anderen Seite haben wir dann auch geguckt, dass wir Zeiträume schaffen, indem man sich mit solchen Technologien auseinandersetzen kann. Also wir haben beispielsweise jeden Freitag son sone Codingrunde. Das ist, also inhaltlich ist immer was anderes, aber ursprünglich war der Gedanke da, dass man sich da mit neuen Technologien auseinandersetzt. Und jetzt haben wir damals mit Go angefangen. Also das heißt, wir haben uns jeden Freitag zusammengesetzt, haben zusammen Go geschrieben, ne. Also da hab ich mich da auch nicht rausgenommen, weil ich musste auch Go lernen, weil letztlich bin ich ja auch immer noch mit relativ nah dran an der Technik. Und da hat's dann ganz gut geklappt. Was heißt zusammen Go geschrieben? Also saßt ihr dann alle in 'nem Meeting und hat eine Aufgabe gelöst und eine hat gecodet, also getippt. Oder wie sah das aus? Ja, sone Mischung. Also zu dem Zeitpunkt war's dann schon so, dass man dann sagt, okay, ich hab son eigenes kleines Go Projekt, an dem programmier ich mich aus. Wenn ich Fragen hab, dann kann ich die quasi direkt in der Runde stellen, ne. Wir hatten dann damals 2 Vorreiter an Go, die da sehr schnell Zugang zu gefunden hatten, die das quasi angeleitet haben, ne. Und dann ja auch schon an dem lebenden Services, den wir damals hatten, direkt schon da Features gemeinsam implementiert haben. Du hast gesagt, ihr habt da bei dem Teamaufbau son bisschen drauf geachtet, dass da schon die Leute irgendwie mit dem mit dem Mindset, was ihr da sucht, eben hinkommen. Wie war das damals so, den ersten Entwickler einzustellen? Weil das ist ja so die die erste Person, die Du heierst, die ist ja so sehr prägend für das Team, was danach potenziell kommt. Was war das für eine Erfahrung? Eine sehr spannende Erfahrung. Also ganz am Anfang hatten wir hatte ich dann 2 Werkstudenten, die wir quasi bei uns ausm Uni Umfeld dann mitgeholt haben. Das war schon eine Umstellung, weil man einfach von so Einzelkämpfermodus, ich muss das irgendwie alles alleine machen, das dann plötzlich auch 'n bisschen mitsteuern musste. War am Anfang gar nicht so einfach, auch wenn's nur 2 Leute sind, aber irgendwie muss man die auch bespaßen, ne. Man kann ja nicht sagen, da ist der Code, jetzt mach, wie Du denkst. Und als dann Ist doch Vibe Coding, oder? Ist das nicht so? Na ja. Ja, und son richtiger Aha Moment war's dann, als dann tatsächlich der erste Seniorentwickler dazugekommen ist. Ne, das war dann so richtig, okay, ich muss nicht mehr alles haarklein erklären, sondern man kann einfach auf 'ner Metaebene sprechen und sagen, okay, das ist die Problemstellung. Und jetzt bitte mach einfach, ne. Das ist ja die die eine Art der Umstellung, so dieses Inhaltliche, ne. Du hast jemanden, der dir auch son bisschen Mental Load abnimmt. Du kannst so High Level Sachen diskutieren und dann passt das schon irgendwie mit der mit der Implementierung am Ende. Die andere Umstellung ist ja so die Organisatorische. Auf einmal musst Du anfangen, dir zu überlegen, wie haben Aufgaben vielleicht Abhängigkeiten voneinander? Was ist irgendwie wichtiger? Was gibst Du an an wen? So dieses ganze, ich ich weiß nicht, was ihr nutzt, aber so Giratickets jonglieren, sag ich mal, ja. Wie wie habt ihr da reingefunden? Insbesondere wenn jetzt bei dir, ne, von von der Uni kommt, da hat man ja noch nie vorher vielleicht in sonem anderen größeren Konzern gearbeitet und das mal gelernt oder gesehen, wie andere das vielleicht so machen. Ich würde mir vorstellen, dass es für euch son bisschen Learning by Doing war an der Stelle. Wie seid ihr da durchgekommen? Also tatsächlich hatt ich das Glück, dass ich dann in meinem Praxissemester bei Wirt IT war. Also ich hab tatsächlich Konzernen dann mitgemacht und da auch son paar Projektmanagementsachen einfach mitnehmen können. Und die dann halt 'n Stück weit adaptiert. Ich sag mal, was das Tooling angeht, ne, weil ansonsten ist ja wird IT hab 'n bisschen anderes Kaliber als wir jetzt. Und wir haben dann auch relativ zügig einen Product Owner mit dazugeholt, der dann einfach die Erfahrung mitgebracht hat. Also das war an der Stelle auch eigentlich immer der bewährte Weg, anstatt alles sich selbst dann anzueignen, eher zu gucken, lasst doch lieber Leute holen, die das halt schon 'n paar Jahre gemacht haben, ne, deren Expertise das ist. Cool. Also das hab ich so noch nicht so oft gehört, dass 'n Product Owner so mit bei den ersten Hiers irgendwie dabei ist. Viele versuchen ja auf Biegen und Brechen son Developmentteam Team erst mal groß zu machen und dann ja, so Product Owner, die braucht man, wenn man mal, weiß ich nicht, 40 Developer hat, die man irgendwie auseinanderhalten muss oder so. Aber cool. Cool, dass es für euch funktioniert hat. Mich mich würd's sehr interessieren, wie sich so deine Arbeit geändert hat, weil Du warst ja am Anfang der Hauptentwickler, sehr viel gecoodet. Eben hast Du gesagt, dass Du dich bei Go nicht rausgenommen hast, was ja eher so klingt, dass Du das nicht mehr so viel machst. Wie hat sich das denn so entwickelt? Und was machst Du grade hauptsächlich? Ja, also wie Du schon sagst, ne, letztlich vom ich hab die ganzen Sachen selbst geschrieben, dann irgendwann zu soner Übergangsphase hin, wo ich dann schon eigentlich mehr ideengebend und konzeptionell tätig war, aber die Ausführung dann letztlich irgend einen anderer Developer ausm Team gemacht hat. Mhm. Und jetzt aktuell ist es eher so, dass ich fast nur noch strategisch aktiv bin, ne, und dann eher wirklich mit unseren Produktmanagern spreche, dass man sagt, okay, was sind die nächsten Features, die wichtig sind, da dann auch wirklich die Konzeptionierung stattfindet und ich dann eher nur mal links und rechts mal reinguck. Stellenweise hab ich son paar Themen, wo ich dann intensiver drin bin, weil beispielsweise die ganzen Payment Sachen sind immer noch so Sachen, wo ich sehr tief drin bin, auch fachlich und da entsprechend auch viel Input im Team geben kann. Da geh ich dann auch mal tiefer rein. Aber an sich ist so mein Schwerpunkt jetzt grade tatsächlich auch AI, ne, wie wir das in der Firma ausrollen und mehr etablieren. Mhm. Und so Payment Sachen. Also Payment ist ja nicht nur eine technische Implementierung, aber zumindest jetzt bei uns nicht mehr, sondern wir haben gemerkt, das ist tatsächlich auch 'n Business, das wir ausbauen können, weil's halt auf unser, ja, auf unser Umsatz einzahlen kann. Mhm. Und als CTO ist man ja auch schon oft verantwortlich für so, also in meinen Augen, wie es den Entwicklern geht oder die auch einzustellen, die weiterzuentwickeln, da bist Du auch viel involviert? Ja. Also der Heiling Prozess, den mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead Development, ne. Das machen wir quasi Ja. Zusammen. Ja, und ansonsten, was so, ich sag mal, die das Teamgefühl, ne, oder auch die Zufriedenheit im Team angeht, grad bei den Developern, das ist ja, wie Du schon sagst, ne, das gehört auch dazu. Dass man einfach guckt, Mhm. Was die Entwicklungsumgebung angeht. Wie ist die grade? Sorg das eigentlich mehr für Frust? Oder kommt man schnell ans Laufen, wenn man neue Features entwickeln möchte? Und das waren so Autothemen, wo ich dann schon guck, dass ich die mit vorantreib. Mhm. Aber das ist so, na ja, fluktuativ, ne, je nachdem, wo halt grade auch irgendwie mein anderer Fokus liegt. Für dieses ganze Thema Teamentwicklung, Hiring, Zufriedenheit braucht man ja auch sone gewisse Vision, wo's so mit dem Team hingehen soll, ja. Wo siehst Du da das Developmentteam bei Fahren in, weiß nicht, 2, 3, 4, 5 Jahren? Ist das eher was, was noch sehr stark wachsen soll? Ist es was, wo Du sagst, nein, wir wir wollen eigentlich auch auf dieser Größe bleiben und eher überlegen, wie können wir mit den Leuten mehr oder andere Sachen schaffen oder irgendwie noch noch Synergien heben oder eher, na ja, wir würden gerne mehr dedizierte Teams für einzelne Aufgaben haben und das Ganze dann son bisschen skalieren. Was soll dein Plan? Also ich würd das gerne in Richtung crossfunktionale Teams entwickeln. Also wir haben das historisch, also ganz am Anfang waren wir ja eigentlich cross funktional, ne. Wir waren ja quasi eine crossfunktionales Gründerteam, Mhm. Kann man ja sagen. Dann kamen immer mehr Leute dazu auf der Businessseite, auf die Developmentseite, aber irgendwie hat sich dann über die Zeit son bisschen sone Trennung entwickelt, ne. Dass wir sagen, okay, dann ist Business, dann haben wir irgendwie Produktmanagement und dann kommt Development. Und jetzt sind wir grade dabei, das wieder zusammenzuführen. Also wir strukturieren insofern dass die Teams wirklich cross funktional wieder sind und dann 'n gewissen Schwerpunkt haben. Also beispielsweise den Endkunden im Fokus oder halt unseren Partner im Fokus. Und mein Ziel wär tatsächlich, dass wir das weiter spezialisieren und ausbauen, dass wir beispielsweise irgendwann einen einen Checkout Team haben, die sich nur darum kümmern, dass die Kunden sauber nicht ins Checkout kommen oder einen Team, das sich da halt wirklich nur darum kümmert, die Partnerprozesse. Und das ist eigentlich so das, worauf ich hinarbeite und wo ich irgendwann sein möchte. Und dann so wirklich 2, 3, 4 Entwickler, 'n Produktmanagement dazu und dann halt ein, 2, 3 relevante Leute aus der Businessseite und die sitzen da wirklich zusammen und arbeiten täglich an dem Problem. Ist das Produktmanagement bei euch orchartsmäßig Teil von der Developmentabteilung oder wie habt ihr das aufgebaut? Ja, also das hängt mit bei mir, ne, und dementsprechend haben wir das immer zusammen betrachtet und als zusammengehörig gesehen. Okay, cool, cool. Und wenn Du sagst, mit noch Businessmenschen dann zusammen, also Accountmanagement oder was was was was was was was Accountmanagement oder Endkundensupport, Vertrieb, Marketing. Okay. Und cross funktional heißt dann für dich nicht, dass die Entwickler verschiedene Aufgaben übernehmen, sondern dass die Teams so strukturiert sind, dass verschiedene Funktionen zusammensitzen und einfach effizienter zusammenarbeiten können an dem Thema, was sie haben. Genau. Und dass Entwicklung sich weiter Entwicklung kümmert, allerdings halt in den gesamten Prozess schon sehr früh involviert ist, ne. Also dass man nicht als Entwickler letztlich das fertig ausformulierte Ticket bekommt und eigentlich das nur noch Sturmwohntag programmiert, sondern dann halt letztlich in der Discoveryphase, wie wir das bei uns nennen, Taschen von Anfang an mit drin ist und entsprechend die technischen Aspekte auch mit einbringen kann. Jetzt hast Du AI einmal schon angesprochen. Mhm. Aus welcher Brille guckt ihr da drauf? Also man kann es ja intern nutzen für, weiß nicht, ne, Coding Agent oder eben Customer Support irgendwie da da in der Hilfe. Man kann es irgendwie sehen für, ich helf dich hier durch deinen Autokonfigurator durch. Oder auch, Stichwort E-Commerce, so Gentic-Commerce, was ja grad noch so in den ganz frühen Babyschuhen steckt. Was ist da für euch aktuell am relevantesten? Aktuell ist es tatsächlich die, ich sag mal, das vorhandene Team 'n bisschen zu enablen, Also grade im am stärksten ist es grade bei uns im Endkundensupport, ne, wo wir da wirklich auf auch Voice Agents setzen, die dann halt am Telefon mit den Kunden erst mal sprechen, im Rezension Prozess, aber auch im, im, sagen wir mal, Chatbot, der auf der Webseite ist und der Kunde irgendwelche Fragen hat, dass wir den permanent erweitern und der halt so intelligent ist, dass er dann tatsächlich auch in Richtung Autobater, Kaufberater geht, ne. Und daneben schauen wir jetzt einfach, dass wir andere Prozesse automatisieren und mit KI ausbauen, zum Beispiel im Discovery Prozess im Produktmanagement. Dass man sagt, okay, da muss nicht in erster Instanz immer der Stakeholder mit dem Produktmanager reden, sondern da kann auch erst mal der Stakeholder mit dem Agenten reden und das quasi schon mal anreichern. Wie, wie formuliert man das? Wie konservativ seid ihr bei dem Rollout von so grade Customer Facing Featuren? Es gab ja, ich glaub, letztes Jahr war's diese lustige Geschichte, wo irgendwie son dieser Chavy Bot son Taho für irgendwie ein Dollar verkauft hat, weil der Typ den Chatbot einfach so lange bearbeitet hat, bis er ihm das rechtlich bindend zugesichert hat, ja. Und das ist ja bei den Werten und Gütern, die ihr so verschiebt, schon auch kein leichtes Thema, ja. Wie wie guckt ihr da drauf? Also sie sind ja tatsächlich sehr offen, ne, und probieren da lieber mehr aus als weniger, ne, weil letztlich der rechtlich bindende Teil kommt ja dann erst in Buchungsprozess, ne. Und wenn der dann abgeschlossen ist, von daher haben wir da erst wenig Schmerzen. Klar ist es jetzt nicht ideal, wenn denn der Chatbot da irgendwas Falsches erzählt und der tatsächliche menschliche Mitarbeiter das am Ende ausbaden muss. Aber wir probieren ja lieber mehr aus als weniger. Mhm. Und Du sagst, der der Chatbot erzählt was Falsches und der Mitarbeiter muss es ausbaden, wie Überwachen ist das falsche Wort. Ich ich such so dann 'n bisschen das das analog zur Telemetrie, ne. Also wenn Du jetzt so deinen deinen Bot da deployed hast oder andere Features, wie schaut ihr da drauf, zu gucken, funktioniert das auch, ne? Sagen die was Richtiges oder fand da, sind die nur so den ganzen Tag vor sich hin? Na, wir kriegen das ganz gut mit, weil das sehr intensiv monitoren, plötzlich dann also die KI dahinter, die labelt dann auch die ganzen Gespräche, guckt, ne, wie ist das ausgegangen? Und entsprechend können wir das eigentlich ganz gut eingrenzen, wenn da was schiefläuft und sehen das eigentlich relativ gut. Mhm. Okay. Cool. Ja. Und letztlich haben wir dann auch irgendwo immer die Eskalation zum Menschen, ne. Also wenn dann irgendwas nicht weiterkommt, dann ist der Weg zum tatsächlichen menschlichen Mitarbeiter auch nicht weit. Und beim Thema AI muss man in Deutschland auch immer fragen so, betreibt ihr da irgendwas selbst? Nutzt ihr irgend 'n offenes Modell? Seid ihr einfach in Anführungszeichen Open AI Kunde? Für was habt ihr euch da entschieden? Also wir sind Kunde bei den 3 Großen, ne, von Antropic, Gemini und Open AI. Die nutzen wir da. Wir haben uns derzeit einen NHN aufgesetzt, ne. Das betreiben wir in unserer eigenen Infrastruktur. Und ansonsten nutzen wir aber nur die, wie gesagt, diese 3 großen Anbieter. Und das NHN, also für alle da draußen ist ja son, ich glaub eigentlich mal gestartet als son reines Automatisierungstool mittlerweile mit 'nem großen AI Fokus. Ja. Das nutzt ihr für Produktiv Workflows oder für eure internen Prozesse? Sowohl als auch, ne. Also zum Beispiel dieser Endkunden Chatbot, der der Workflow ist dann NLN abgebildet und entsprechend dort auch konfiguriert. Und wir nutzen das aber auch intern für Automatisierung, ne. Also Was? Ja, genau. Coole Sache, coole Sache. Weil wir kommen da Also angefangen mit Sapia, ne, das geht ja auch in die Richtung. Sind dann irgendwann zu make, weil das von der Bedienung intuitiver war. Und jetzt aber in dem KI Wandel, in dem man sich halt einfach grade befindet, dass NETN einfach der Platzhirsch, ne, der da am flexibelsten ist und am besten zugänglich. Und ehrlicherweise auch dadurch, dass man die auch gut selber betreiben kann, also also grade so Sapia und Make, die haben ja 'n ein horrendes Kostenmodell so hinten raus, ja. Ja. Also ist ja auch nicht billig. Ja. Ja. Okay. Gerald. Ja. Es sah grade bei mir so aus, als wolltest Du eine Frage stellen. Ich will auch eine Frage stellen. Ich weiß gar nicht so genau, wie gut die hier reinpasst. Ich hab online gelesen, dass Fahren so Fahrennights macht. Ja. Und ich hab mich gesagt Sorry, war was? Ich hab das, Du hast mich verloren. Was macht Fahren? Night. Ach, Neid. Das heißt, einfach Fahren Neid. Und ihr macht das irgendwie seit 3 Jahren Ist das eine Anspruch auf Fahrenheit? Ich bin ja komplett raus grade. Nee. Ich kann ja vielleicht einfach kurz erläutern, was das ist dann Sehr gerne, sehr gerne. Nee, also wir, unser Bestreben ist ja auch, also auch in unserem Interesse, dass wir halt in der Automotive Branche in Deutschland halt entsprechend auch gut bekannt sind. Mhm. Ja, und das ist ja auch letztlich das oberste Ziel von unserem Vertriebschef. Und da haben wir jetzt vor 3 Jahren das erste Mal eine Fahrenneid, also quasi wirklich 'n Abend, aus dem wir dann aus der Händlerschaft, aus der Automotive Branche, sag ich mal, die die Topp Leute einladen, ne. Und dann gibt's quasi einen Abend lang Essen und Getränke auffahren. Und einfach, dass wir da son son Networking Event schaffen, bei dem wir uns natürlich auch platzieren. Mhm. Und aber einfach Leute zusammenbringen, mit denen wir dann hoffentlich auch irgendwie in eine Kooperation gehen. So. Ah, okay, da kommen also eher, also jetzt da kommen jetzt keine Konkurrenten zu euch, sondern eher Händler, Leute, die einfach in der in dem Business unterwegs sind, die auch Kunden für euch sein könnten sozusagen. Genau. Oder Geschäftspartner sind ja keine Kunden, das sind eher Ja. Geschäftspartner, ne. Macht ihr das so oder wie betreibt ihr das? Ja, ist eine gute Frage. Nee, wir haben am Anfang war's mittlerweile haben wir's son bisschen geöffnet, dass man sich auch so Tickets kaufen kann, aber es ist schon eine sehr ausgelesene Gruppe, sag ich mal. Mhm. Und was ich da sehr spannend fand, ihr habt ja kein richtiges Programm dabei, also ihr habt jetzt keine Vorträge oder so was. Und hab also ich hab aber gelesen, dass ihr trotzdem versucht, den Austausch sehr Ich glaub, was Garald sagen will, ist, er wär gerne mal dabei. Ich wär sehr gerne mal dabei, weil also es also ich frag mich, wie ihr das macht, weil es ist denn, also funktioniert das einfach, wenn man sagt, okay, wir setzen interessante Leute an einen Tisch und sagen, hier ist Essen und Trinken und redet mal. Oder überlegt ihr euch dann auch Themen, über die man sprechen kann? Bereitet ihr da irgendwas vor? Also das ist tatsächlich im Hintergrund in den Kulissen schon ziemlich hart durchgetaktet und auch kurierbar, sag ich mal. Also wir werden da immer alle geimpft von unserem Vertriebler und Heute reden wir nur über XYZ. Ja und dann auch wirklich, okay, gehen wir mal bitte auf den zu, der der kommt, reden wir mit dem, weil der hat, keine Ahnung, irgendwelche technischen Probleme, ne, in letzter Zeit immer gehabt. Oder hier ist jemand, der will irgendwie eine tiefere Integration haben. Oder das ist 1, der könnte potenzieller, ich sag mal, Zusatzdienstlast sein für Auslieferung oder Versicherungsprodukte. Und dann schnappt man sich die halt schon auch dediziert, ne. Muss man dann so als Also ist jetzt nicht ist jetzt nicht das gesamte Fahrenteam dabei, sondern ist dann eher so Teamlead, Produktmanagement und so was sind dabei. Jetzt nicht jeder Entwickler. Und da muss man halt über seinen Schatten springen und dann mit den Leuten reden, ne. Das ist dann Vertriebsarbeit, ja. Okay, aber es geht schon auch viel über technische Themen. Also Du bist dann dafür da, also an dem Abend da, mit Leuten über die technische Seite auch zu sprechen. Ja, sagen wir, Produktthemen, ne. Technisch wäre, glaub ich, zu tief, weil die Leute, die dann aus der Autobranche da sind, die sind nicht technisch affin oder nicht tief genug drin in den technischen Themen, aber so produktseitig auf jeden Fall. Okay. Ja, Cari, Du Jan. Okay. Das war ja grade 'n gutes Beispiel dafür, wie wie wichtig so Zusammenkommen irgendwie auch ist, ja. Und ihr habt ja, als ihr vor 8 Jahren dann gestartet seid, war das ja auch noch vor Corona. Wie habt ihr so Corona erlebt und und überlebt als dann son doch noch recht junges Unternehmen irgendwie auch mit alle arbeiten auf einmal nur noch von zu Hause oder habt ihr das oder habt ihr doch weiter zusammengearbeitet, weil ihr noch gar nicht zu groß wart, als dass das irgendwie kritisch war? Wie haben sich da eure Prozesse umgestellt und wie lebt ihr das heute? Also wir waren damals, jetzt muss ich kurz überlegen, damals waren wir tatsächlich alle on Zeit, also alle im Raum Würzburg. Also wir saßen eigentlich immer zusammen im Büro. Das haben wir auch versucht, über Corona hinweg so aufrecht zu halten. Hat uns dann aber nach der Coronazeit schon trotzdem auch geholfen, weil wir dann trotzdem mehr digital auch mal gesprochen haben. Und nach Corona, als wir dann auch das Deft Team weiter ausgebaut haben, haben wir dann schon auch nicht nur im Raum Würzburg geguckt, sondern dann auch weiter weg, ne. Also durch die 2 Developer, die wir damals hatten, hatten wir dann Connections zu anderen, denen aber mehr in Richtung Köln saßen. Und dann war ruckzuck eigentlich das Developmentteam hybrid oder eigentlich mehr remote, ne. Und das hat sich dann auch son bisschen über die gesamte Firma weiterentwickelt, weil grade dann, was sogar Accountmanagement angeht und Vertrieb, das ist ja dann sind auch keine Leute, die jeden Tag im Büro sitzen, sondern die eher unterwegs sind und die Termine mit den Partnern haben. Und jetzt mittlerweile ist es halt wirklich son Hybridansatz, wobei wir schon ja, Hybridansatz, Punkt, ja, mit seinen Vor- und Nachteilen, ne. Also grade was so die Kommunikation, das Einbinden der Remoteler angeht, das ist nicht immer einfach. Und auch quasi immer wären eine Baustelle, an der man immer wieder verbessern und ausbauen kann. Aber es ist schon euer erklärtes Ziel, das also die das zu erhalten. Und jetzt nicht zu sagen, na ja, wär uns eigentlich schon lieber, wenn prinzipiell die Leute wieder hier mehr im Büro wären oder eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr ihr wollt dieses Hybride. Also wir wollen den Austausch, ne. Wie wir da hinkommen, ist jetzt nicht, soll man die erste Frage beantworten und ist wirklich die der erste Punkt ist, dass wir den Austausch hinkriegen wollen. Deswegen ja auch diese crossfunktionalen Teams. Uns ist aber auch bewusst, dass wir in Würzburg sitzen und in Würzburg jetzt nicht, sagen wir mal, die Hochburg der Softwareentwickler ist. Gut, das sagst Du jemanden, der grade in Bad Nauheim sitzt. Ja, und von daher müssen wir uns halt drauf einstellen, dass die Entwickler oder auch andere Spezialisten, das ist ja nicht nur die Softwareentwicklung, dann einfach nicht in Würzburg zu finden sind, sondern dann doch auch Richtung Ruhrgebiet Berlin, Hamburg, München. Wenn ihr, also auch wenn ihr jetzt keine klassischen Autohändler seid, hängt ihr ja am Ende doch son bisschen an der Autoindustrie als Ganzes so mit dran. Mhm. Das heißt, alle ups and Downs erlebt ihr sozusagen mit. Ist es so volatil, wie ich mir das von außen manchmal vorstelle oder ist das doch eigentlich eher 'n relativ gleichbleibendes Geschäft? Nee, man kriegt das schon mit. Also wobei uns das oft in die Karten gespielt hat, also jetzt Beispiel auch in Coronazeit, viele der Endkunden haben sich gedacht, okay, ich kann mir jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n Auto finanzieren auf 5 Jahre, weil ich einfach nicht weiß, wo mein Job ist, ja, in den nächsten Monaten. Und dann waren halt diese kurzfristigen Geschäftsmodelle wie jetzt Abo tatsächlich sehr, sehr beliebt, weil dann viele gesagt haben, okay, dann nehm ich lieber 'n Abo mit 'ner Laufzeit von 6 Monaten, ne, was ich dann weiterfahren kann. Aber ich kann's aber auch schnell abstoßen, ne. Und dann hatten wir in der Corona eigentlich 'n Stück weit Aufwind. Und auch wenn wir jetzt in der Automobilbranche eine Überproduktion haben oder die Händler die Fahrzeuge noch nicht loswerden, weil's wirtschaftlich irgendwie grade nicht so gut läuft, dann sind wir halt einfach 'n weiterer Vertriebskanal, ne. Auf der anderen Seite, wenn dann halt viel Absatz da ist, dann müssen wir halt auch gucken, wo wir dann unsere Fahrzeuge herbekommen, ne. Das ist dann schon son bisschen ja, immer hin und her. Also es es klingt fast antizyklisch. Sozusagen, na ja, wenn wenn wenn's bei der Automobilindustrie im Großen grade nicht so super läuft, dann ist es für uns vielleicht 'n bisschen einfacher. Mhm. Und wenn's sehr gut läuft und die Autos irgendwie alle weg sind, dann wird's für uns vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen schwieriger. Ja, ja, kann man durchaus sagen. Interessant. Cool. Ist das was, was so im im Team insgesamt bei euch ankommt, wahrgenommen wird oder eine Rolle spielt? Oder ist das eher so für euch, in der Geschäftsführung relevant, da ab und zu mal draufzuschauen, aber beim Rest kommt da eigentlich überhaupt keine Nervosität oder Spannung an? Nee, wir versuchen das schon transparent zu gestalten, also dass jeder wirklich Bescheid weiß. Weil halt also supply, sprich also die Fahrzeuge, die wir bei uns haben, ist ja 'n großes Thema. Weil je mehr Angebote wir aufm Marktplatz haben, desto mehr Kunden kommen zu uns und finden das passende Angebot für sich. Und von daher ist es 'n Thema, was wir sehr, sehr hochhalten, ne. Transparenz ist 'n gutes Stichwort. Ich glaube, grade in jungen Unternehmen ist es ja auch vielleicht am Anfang 'n bisschen schwierig, die ersten paar Leute einzustellen, weil da ja natürlich son gewisses Commitment mitkommt zu 'nem zu 'ner Firma, zu 'nem Partner, von dem man ja noch gar nicht weiß, so, gibt's den in 'nem Jahr überhaupt noch so, ne. Also grade die ersten paar Haieers stellen sich die Frage ja schon zurecht auch. Wie macht ihr das jetzt son paar Jahre später, wie wie transparent, also nicht, dass ihr was geheim walten wolltet oder so was, ne, aber wie wie transparent seid ihr so mit mit mit Kennzahlen, mit mit KPIs? Wie interessiert sind da auch die Mitarbeiter überhaupt noch mittlerweile bei soner Größenordnung? Wie wie holt ihr da das Team ab? Also die Mitarbeiter sind da sehr interessiert an den Zahlen und wir machen regelmäßig Townhools, wo wir dann wirklich auch konkret sagen, das waren unsere Ziele, ne, dass da stehen wir aber jetzt, sowohl auf der Umsatzseite als auch auf der Kostenseite. Ich mein, wir zeigen jetzt keinen Kontostand, ne, aber letztlich versuchen wir ja schon so transparent zu sein, dass bei jedem auch klar ist, wo wir grade stehen. Also dass da keine Traumschlösser entstehen irgendwie. Das mein ich dann. Ich glaub, das ist halt auch so das Interessante, ne. Hast Du, wenn Du in der Firma arbeitest, irgendwie 'n Verständnis davon, ob's dir grade gut oder schlecht geht. Du musst jetzt nicht wissen, wir haben hier zweieinhalb Millionen Euro auf der hohen Kante und wir verbrennen davon irgendwie 200000 im Monat so. Runway ist dementsprechend klar. Ja. Aber einfach so zu wissen, geht's uns grade gut oder geht's uns grade schlecht, ja. Und kann ja auch alles verschiedene Abstufungen haben. Das ist, glaub ich, schon wichtig für viele. Also unsere Erfahrung war auch einfach, wenn man die Transparenz zeigt, dann motiviert das auch die Mitarbeiter. Also wenn man quasi weiß, wofür man jetzt das hier grade macht, ne, wenn man weiß als Entwickler beispielsweise, dass ich jetzt nicht grade refactoring kann, weil wir jetzt unbedingt irgendwas machen müssen, damit der Umsatz die Umsatzziele erreicht sind, dann ist das anders motivieren, als wenn man quasi dumm gehalten wird, ne. Ja. Und das ist einfach schädlich. Ich hab am Anfang gar nicht gefragt, aber habt ihr das selbstfinanziert oder fremdfinanziert? Nee, wir sind fremdfinanziert. Okay. Okay. Du hast ja das ist ja aber auch was, was für für Mitarbeiter auch erst mal erklärt werden muss stellenweise wahrscheinlich, ne? Ja. Ja. Alright. Alright. Ich komm mit noch vielleicht eher mal son paar persönlichen Fragen die Ecke. Ich mein, das ist ja 'n CDO Special, also es geht ja auch irgendwie dich. Und deswegen, wir hatten eben schon das Thema so, dass sich deine Aufgabenfeld verändert hat und Du eigentlich ja auch eher als Entwickler gestartet bist. Mhm. Was was sind denn für Aufgaben dazugekommen, die Du extrem überraschend gut fandest, wo Du dachtest, boah, das interessiert mich voll. Da hast Du dich voll reingehangen und fand das cool, dass Du diese neue Aufgabe bekommen hast. Und wo gibt es auch Sachen, denen Du hinterher trauerst, weil Du jetzt einfach eine andere Rolle hast? Und das Du bist ja auch son bisschen reingewachsen, glaub ich, ne. Das entwickelt sich dann so und manchmal entscheidet man sich ja auch gar nicht so bewusst dafür, will ich das jetzt machen oder nicht. Genau. Genau, was, ja. Nee, also son bisschen vermissen tu ich ab und an mal tatsächlich einfach das reine Coden, also wirklich einfach Softwareentwicklung betreiben. Mhm. Cool fand ich jetzt aber so in dem Wandel einfach auch mal die Möglichkeit zu haben, mal jetzt eine neue Technologie zu nehmen, die KI beispielsweise, ne. Was denn sonst irgendwie ist man halt als normaler Mitarbeiter, sag ich mal, dann doch abhängig davon, was die Firma entscheidet, ne, worauf die 'n Schwerpunkt legen und das kann ich jetzt halt mitgestalten, ne. Also ich kann solche Sachen halt mit vorantreiben. Mhm. Was dann eher nicht so mein Favorit ist, ist halt die zunehmende Anzahl an Meetings, die man dann halt einfach bewältigen muss. Ja, aber es gehört halt dazu, ne. Und ist halt, man muss sich dann auch irgendwann eingestehen, dass man jetzt in meinem Fall von der Softwareentwicklung einfach 'n Schritt zurücktritt, weil man dann oftmals auch im Weg steht, ne. Tatsächlich hab ich das gemerkt. Also wenn ich mir rausgenommen hab, ich bau jetzt an dem Feature mit, am Ende des Tages haben dann die Kollegen halt drauf gewartet, dass ich fertig werde. Und das Ende vom Lied war dann, ja okay, dann okay, mach Du's bitte fertig, ne, weil ich komm nicht dazu. Und das dann sich einzugestehen, dass man dann wirklich auf der Entwicklungsseite mehr im Weg steht, also geh ich lieber, weiß nicht, mach was anderes, was dein Zielführender ist und das Team mehr voranbringt, das muss man dann irgendwie auch erst mal verinnerlichen. Gibt es eine Aufgabe, ein Teilgebiet, das dazugekommen ist, auf das Du eigentlich so überhaupt gar keine Lust hast und mehr son notwendiges Übel ist? Nee. Also mittlerweile hab ich mich da mit allen Sachen arrangiert. Also wie gesagt, so mehr in dieses auch mit den externen Partnern da mehr einzugehen, das war am Anfang 'n bisschen, ja, nicht so mein Hauptziel, ne oder das, was mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat, aber mittlerweile bin ich da auch super angekommen. Wie lernt man das? Ja, 'n Stück weit muss man dann die Pille einfach schlucken, ne. Also manches kann man jetzt nicht groß lernen. Man muss einfach akzeptieren, dass man dass das dazugehört. Ja, und dann halt gucken, dass man sich da einbringt und das nicht einfach links liegen lässt und versucht wegzuignorieren. Und wie hast Du so neue Aufgaben gelernt? Also ich mein, grade das Thema Leute einstellen, find ich, ist ja was ganz anderes als Sofa entwickeln. Das ist ja auch nicht einfach. Wie wie hast Du dich da so Und den Druck noch mal gleich zu erhöhen, das sind ja auch sehr, sehr teure Fehler, die man da machen kann. Ja. Ja, boah, gute Frage. Also letztlich einfach die, sagen wir, Stellenausschreibung gemacht und dann mit den Leuten sich zusammengesetzt in einen Call, dann die Erstgespräche geführt. Und dann hat man schon gemerkt, okay, passt es menschlich, passt es fachlich irgendwo? Und dann grade bei den Ersten war's wirklich auch dann 'n Sprung ins kalte Wasser. Okay, dann dann nimmt man den halt mal mit, weil menschlich hat's gepasst, fachlich auf den ersten Eindruck auch. Mhm. Wie sieht euer Hiring Prozess da aus? Also ihr macht offensichtlich 'n Erstgespräch, mal so zu gucken, okay, passt der hier zu uns, ja? Macht ihr Einstellungstests, macht ihr Probearbeiten? Wie prüft ihr das Fachliche ab? Also wir machen den Erstcall, also je nachdem, ne, über welche Plattform, über welches System letztlich jetzt die Bewerbungen reinkommen. Wir haben da lange Zeit einfach Stellenausschreibung gemacht und da hat man natürlich dann viel, was man vorfiltert, ne, wo man einfach nur Lebensläufe liest und dann ablehnt oder weitergeht. Und das machst Du alles? Nee, da hatten wir dann tatsächlich auch Mitarbeiter, die dann im people culture mäßig die die Eingänge vorher gesichtet haben. Und jetzt mittlerweile machen wir's aber so, dass wir das wesentlich zielgerichteter machen, beispielsweise über ein Staffo, ne, wo wir dann auch aktiv Leute anschreiben können und das vom Kreis der Bewerber schon sehr viel interessanter ist als quasi in den Wald geschossen. Ja. Und dann machen wir das Erstgespräch, das mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead. Und wenn das passt, also da klopfen wir son paar fachliche Themen ab, dann auch schon mal das erste Gefühl auf der menschlichen Ebene. Und wenn das passt, dann letztlich schon mit dem mit dem Team, mit dem der oder diejenige dann zukünftig arbeiten könnte, ne, dass wir die direkt reinholen, was uns an der Stelle wichtig ist, dass das Team mit der Person konform ist, weil die halt ja täglich zusammenarbeiten müssen, ne. Und wenn das passt, dann machen wir 'n Termin bei uns in Würzburg vor Ort, wo dann auch mal der die Bewerber Bewerberin zu den anderen Leuten reingeschmissen wird, wenn man mit Marketing spricht, man mit Support spricht, mit unseren Key Account dort spricht, einfach zu gucken, ob das passt. Und wenn dann quasi 3 grüne Häkchen da sind, dann können wir dann in die Einstellung gehen. Okay, da ist jetzt aber tatsächlich kein kein inhaltlicher Check dabei im Sinne von Probearbeiten, Testaufgabe, irgendwas machen. Nee. Chris. Chris. Ja. Da haben wir uns aktiv dagegen entschieden, weil wir gesagt haben, klar, jetzt kann man da irgendwie 'nem Entwickler eine Dreiviertelstunde wie Schulter gucken, wie er die zehnte To do Listen App baut. Und das ist aber unserer Meinung nach einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß, jetzt auch mit KI. Sind ja so rudimentäre Sachen. Also man weiß ja auch nicht, sitzt derjenige jetzt quasi an seinem Rechner und hat nebendran irgendwie 'n KI Agent mitlaufen und der schreibt es einfach nur ab? Oder ja, es ist halt so oberflächlich, so superoberflächlich, dass zu sagen, die Probezeit ist eigentlich das richtige Mittel, zu sagen, der hat Zeit, ins System zu kommen, der hat Zeit, sich im Team zu bewerben. Und wenn das halt nicht passt, muss man halt so ehrlich sein und sagen, okay, es geht halt nicht. Ihr macht für eure Entwickler Probeaufgaben, Gehalt, gell? Wir machen so Probeaufgaben vor Ort. Das und dann kriegen sie halt 'n Rechner von uns. Das heißt, da kann man son bisschen voraussehen, dass sie das jetzt nicht nutzen, KI. Und das sind dann aber auch keine keine To do Liste. Ist eher so, schreibt man eine Funktion, die das uns macht. Ja, ja. Also im kleinen Rahmen. Ja. Und Du hast Du hast ja, also Du hast von wir gesprochen, als Du gesagt hast, wir haben uns dafür entscheiden, dass ihr so Aufgaben nicht macht. Wer also wer ist dieses wir? Wer bist Du und wenn ja, wie viel? Das sind nicht nur meine andere Persönlichkeiten. Nee, also das tatsächlich im Gründerkreis haben wir gesagt, wir machen ja diese diese Tests nicht. Und dann letztlich auch mit meinem Team zusammen, wo wir halt einfach viel zusammen strukturieren, was da so was angeht. Weil das ist einfach nicht Okay. Nicht zielführend. Und Du hast, es gibt einen Teamlead, der Ja, aber mein Teamlead Development quasi, ne, der dann quasi Ja, okay. 'n Stück weit von mir die die Arbeit abnimmt, sich da das Team zu kümmern, alles, was da halt mit dazugehört. Interessant. Okay, das das heißt, diese Prozesse, also das find ich halt interessant, wie kommt man von einem, okay, ich hab das, ich hab noch nie eine Person eingestellt zu so Prozessen, die so funktionieren? Also es war wahrscheinlich alles, lern über Doing, iterativ und hast dich viel abgesprochen mit Seit wann hast Du dein Teamleat? Wie lange arbeitest Du mit dem zusammen? Also ich hab jetzt fünfjähriges Jubiläum gehabt jetzt am Wochenende. Und als Teamlead, das muss ich überlegen, jetzt sag ich nichts Falsches sagen, weil's bestimmt anhört dann irgendwann. Also so 2, zweieinhalb Jahre. Weiß ja nicht, wann wir das veröffentlichen. Das kann ja auch dauern. Na, okay. Nee, aber also wie man da hinkommt, ist tatsächlich iterativ, ne. Also es ist ja dann letztlich wie irgendwie eine Softwareentwicklung, muss man sagt, man bringt das Feature relativ zügig raus und dann hinterfragt man das ständig, ne und schraubt daran rum. Und das machen wir eigentlich gesamtheitlich in Fahrern, dass wir nie Sachen für Gesetze achten und die so stehen lassen, sondern immer sagen, okay, wie können wir's eigentlich besser machen? Zielführend für die Firma, aber auch für die Mitarbeiter. Wie bringt dir da Ideen von Mitarbeitern ein? Also wenn jetzt 'n Entwickler kommt und sagt, hey, ich find den Bewerbungsprozess doof. Macht der das informell, oder? Ja, also da ist viel einfach direktes Reden, einfach mal jemand kotzt sich aus, sagt, irgendwas passt grade nicht und dann Okay. Muss man sich natürlich angucken. Ist ja nicht immer, weil's ein Netz ankotzt Ja. Kotzt das alle an. Aber wir machen das eigentlich sehr direkt. Okay. Speaking of Ideen einbringen, wie macht ihr bei Fahren so eure strategische Planung? Setzt ihr euch da im Gründerteam einmal im Jahr zusammen und schreibt den Fünfjahresplan und dann geht ihr einmal damit zurück in die Firma und gut ist? Oder wie sieht der Prozess aus? Also ja, letztlich setzen wir uns im Gründerkreis zusammen. Ist jetzt kein Fünfjahresplan, ne, aber wir nehmen natürlich die Punkte aus dem Team mit, schauen, was ist da halt wichtig. Natürlich auch mit Blick auf unsere Zahlen. Und dann schauen wir einfach, wo wir den Schwerpunkt legen, ne. Und dann sagen wir, okay, wir wollen eigentlich diese Umsatzzahlen, diese Abozahlen erreichen, weil's einfach wichtig ist. Auf der Kostenseite wollen wir eine bestimmte Zahl nicht überschreiten. Und wenn wir dann diese groben Metriken haben, sag ich mal, auf der obersten Ebene, dann gehen wir aber tatsächlich hin mit dem Team und schauen, wie wir das dann im Detail erreichen. Also das gehen wir jetzt nicht im Klein Klein vor. Und wie oft macht ihr das? Und habt ihr da 'n etablierten Prozess für oder ist das mehr son informelles Ding? Nee, das ist mittlerweile eigentlich schon recht Also offiziell wär's vielleicht das Falschsport, das ist sone Mischung. Wir machen das einmal im Groben und dann schauen wir aber regelmäßig drauf, in welche Richtung das geht, ne, damit wir auch nachjustieren können. Weil einfach das dann genial laufen zu lassen und am Ende des Jahres zu gucken, ist das jetzt so gekommen, wie's kommen sollte, ist es meistens nicht. Deswegen muss man halt einfach rechtzeitig gegensteuern können. Und empfindest Du's meistens als was Positives oder auch manchmal hinderlich? Das Ihr seid ja 3 oder 4 Kunde, ich weiß grad nicht. Also sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive, ne. Waren mal 5, aber sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive. Und findest Du's, genau, eigentlich die Frage, wie Ich muss kurz überlegen, wie ich die Frage von mir Also findest Du's gut oder manchmal auch hinterlich, dass ihr 4 Mitgründer seid? Weil es ist ja manchmal auch schwer, alle in in Einklang zu bringen oder? Alle von derselben Idee zu überzeugen. Also ich find's gut tatsächlich, weil dadurch, dass wir dadurch haben wir halt sehr unterschiedliche Sichtweisen, ne. Jeder hat so sein sein Steckenpferd und seine Prioritäten. Und das verhindert halt, dass mal 1 blind mehr oder weniger, ne, in eine Richtung läuft und aber nicht alle Aspekte betrachtet. Und dadurch, dass wir halt auch so divers aufgestellt sind, können wir halt alle Aspekte aus allen Bereichen der Firma gut einbringen und haben die halt auch relativ gleichgewichtet dann in den Gesprächen, ne. Ja, und dadurch kommt wahrscheinlich auch selten zustande, dass 1 sagt, also dass man so komplett konträre Meinung hat, weil jeder sein Fachgebiet hat und dann kommt das so zusammen. Genau. Und was und das halt verhindert, ist halt beispielsweise, dass jetzt rein, ich sag mal, BWL getrieben, jemand sagt, okay, wir müssen jetzt 'n großes neues Feature machen oder wir gehen jetzt einfach in 'n neues Land. Und das ist aber technisch unmöglich zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt, ne. Und das haben wir so halt nicht, solche Situationen. Gar nicht. Also wahrscheinlich schon, aber ihr könnt sie relativ gut lösen dann wahrscheinlich, oder? Ja. Also ich mein, wir sind tatsächlich auch mal in 'n anderes Land gegangen. Mhm. Und haben das dann auch wieder sein lassen, aber gemerkt haben, es funktioniert nicht, ne. Aber es fällt wahrscheinlich aber früher auf, als wenn man das jetzt so nicht macht, Ja, okay, das ist smart. Mir hat mal jemand gesagt, als CTO ist das so deine Aufgabe, dich eigentlich überflüssig zu machen und mit der Zeit, die dabei frei wird, dir ständig neue Aufgaben zu suchen, dass Du nicht überflüssig wirst. Würdest würdest Du das unterschreiben? 'N Stück weit, ja, ja. Also ich hab's ja vorhin schon mal gesagt, ne, das das Tolle ist, dadurch, dass man in der Rolle dann wächst und irgendwann dann auch mehr Leute hat, auf die man, die einen ja mittragen, kann man sich halt neue Themen kümmern, ne, wie jetzt das KI Thema. Und das das macht schon Spaß an der Stelle, also ja 'n Stück weit kann man dem zustimmen. In welchem Teil würdest Du nicht zustimmen? Ja, sich gänzlich obsolet machen, würd ich jetzt nicht sagen. Denk, das ist auch schwierig, weil dann schnell Sachen ausm Ruder laufen, ne. Also wenn man sich nicht mehr gewisse Themen kümmert, ne. Weil irgendwo muss man ja dann doch auf alles drauf schauen und wenn das nicht passiert, dann hast man halt irgendwo kleine Teams, kleine Grüppchen, die dann immer nur für sich denken und das dann nicht gesamtheilig betrachten. Ja. Obwohl Du ja wahrscheinlich schon Aufgaben abgegeben hast an den Teamlead oder so, die Du jetzt nicht mehr machst, die Du wahrscheinlich eine Zeit lang mal selber gemacht hast, oder? Ja, absolut. Also das ist jetzt sowohl, ich sag mal, auch von der Produktseite ausgesprochen, dass man sich da halt darum kümmert, was machen wir jetzt für Neuerungen, ne, den Endkunden besser durch 'n Checker zu bringen oder dem Partner das Leben leichter zu machen. Das muss man sich dann halt nicht mehr selbst alles ausdenken. Aber halt auch in den technischen Konzepte, wie gestaltet man die Infrastruktur, ne? Dafür hat man einfach Leute, die es können, ja. Ich mein, ich bin ja auch Quereinsteiger, ich hab das ja nicht gelernt und Fahren ist eigentlich mein erstes großes Projekt gewesen. Mhm. Mhm. Und von daher muss man, musst ich einfach immer auf andere Leute Expertise aufbauen. Aber ich hatt auf LinkedIn, hattest Du nicht auch mal eine App Agentur gegründet? Ja. Ist falsch gewesen? Jetzt kommt jetzt kommt's raus. Das waren halt so Superpress Seiten, ne. Also das ist jetzt nicht, wo ich sag, da hab ich jetzt ultimativ Wissen auf der Infrastrukturseite aufgebaut oder so, Skalierungsthemen bearbeitet, sondern das war wirklich, da hab ich jemand 'n Shop, okay. Setz ich ja auf und konfiguriert er den. Verstehe. Ja. Okay. Wir haben ziemlich viele Themenbereiche hier schon angerissen. Meine Lieblingsfrage daher zum Schluss, wenn Gerald nicht noch eine Frage hat. Gerald, hast Du noch eine Frage? Schade nicht, vielleicht kommt noch eine. Wunderbar. Dann meine Frage an Fabian. Welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt? Womit hast Du fest gerechnet und gedacht, oh, da wollt ich unbedingt drüber reden und keiner hat mich danach gefragt und jetzt hatt ich gar keine Chance, über XYZ zu sprechen? Gute Frage. Ich glaub, da war jetzt nichts dabei. Bin son bisschen drauf eingestellt, ne, sondern mein meine meinen Lebenslauf darzulegen, mich nackig zu machen, aber es ist auch okay, wenn wir das nicht tun. Nee, und so inhaltlich fachlich jetzt zu fahren, nee, ich denk, wir haben alles grob angerissen. Ja. Wunderbar. Garalt, ist dir noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen? Ja, es hab also ich hab mich grad gefallen, ob wir dich noch nackig machen wollen, aber Das ist ja ist ja kein Videopodcast hier. Von daher, alles alles kein Problem. Wunderbar. Aber was, okay, aber wenn Du das schon so sagst, was was wär denn die Frage aus deinem Lebenslauf gewesen, die dich interessiert hätte? Also Ja, Du musst jetzt sone harte Imposter Syndrom Frage stellen oder so was. Schwierig. Ja, das ist schwierig, weil ich versuch's dir auch grad besser zu familieren, ohne dass sie zu hart ist. Nee, also ich mein, vielleicht die Herausforderung, die ich jetzt ja auch hatte, wie gesagt, ich bin ja Quereinsteiger, ne, Fahren war jetzt so das das erste große Projekt, was vielleicht viele andere in in meiner Situation entweder halt schon auf langjährige Berufserfahrung einfach als Softwareentwickler zurückgreifen können oder halt irgendwie anderweitig schon, keine Ahnung, mal 'n Unternehmen mit aufgebaut haben oder nicht, ne. Und das das hatte ich jetzt nicht, auch ja meine Mitgründer nicht. Also wir mussten das ja immer alles irgendwie lernen. Und da war halt einfach, ich hab's davon schon mal gesagt, ne, dann einfach Expertise von außen zulassen. Ne, das war etwas, was ich gemerkt hab, was mir sehr geholfen hat. Sei es jetzt durch, weiß nicht, Business Angels oder gute Bekannte, die man dann eingebunden hat, die da Hilfestellung geleistet haben. Hattest Du auch Business Angels, die dir bei der technischen Seite geholfen haben und Tipps gegeben haben? Ja, cool, ja. Und ja, was ich auch so gemerkt hab, stellenweise hab ich versuch's alles sehr teamdörfern zu machen. Und an der einen oder anderen Stelle muss man dann aber auch eine Entscheidung treffen und die dann halt auch durchziehen, ne. Also beispielsweise, weißt Du, rückblickend das mit Go würd ich jetzt nicht noch mal machen. Ja. Ne, das war rückblickend dann schon 'n Schritt in die falsche Richtung. Aber es ist trotzdem wichtig, das Team mitzunehmen, ne. Also das, ich will nicht mehr sagen, dass man die quasi dann außen vorlässt und alles dann 'nem stillen Kämmerchen ausmacht. Aber so diesen Mittelweg zu finden, das ist manchmal gar nicht so einfach. Und im Nachhinein ist man ja auch immer schlauer. Also man muss sich ja dann auch ehrlich fragen, aber selbst wenn jetzt Go vielleicht nicht die richtige Richtung war, 'n Fehler war's ja eigentlich nur, wenn Du schon relativ früh gewusst hättest, dass es schiefläuft und es trotzdem das Team weitermachen lässt so, ne. Wenn Zeit einfach nix wird, ist ja okay, aber dafür sind ja diese Versuche auch irgendwie da. Ja. Ja, also Und mein, da hat's auch sehr viel geholfen, dass das Team halt auch denn selbst zu reflektiert ist und war und entsprechend dann auch vom Team auch oftmals Impulse kamen, ne, in Sachen, okay, das läuft in die falsche Richtung, lass doch mal direkt drüber sprechen. Also da bin ich auch echt happy. Jetzt hast Du eben schon gesagt, Du Du hast das dir so teilweise selber beigebracht, hast teilweise Business Angels gehabt, aber es war insgesamt son son Lernprozess. Würdest Du noch mal gründen, wenn jetzt Fahren in, weiß nicht, 10 Jahren entweder zu ist oder gut verkauft wurde oder so gut läuft, dass es dich nicht mehr braucht oder keine Ahnung was. Und Du sagst, okay, was mach ich jetzt als Nächstes? So, was das Fahren wir als nächstes großes Ding? Würdest Du würdest Du dir den ganzen Spaß noch mal geben? Es kommt auf die Idee an. Also ich würd wahrscheinlich nicht noch mal in son wirklich tiefes kaltes Wasser springen, wie's halt mit Fahren damals war, wo ja wir ja eigentlich 0 Expertise hatten im Automotivebereich, ne, was so das Handling von Fahrzeugen und so was angeht. Das wahrscheinlich eher nicht mehr. Aber wenn's dann eher im Bereich ist, in dem ich dann entsprechendes Basiswissen schon hab und Grundwissen, dann könnt ich mir das schon vorstellen, ne. Ja. Also so letztlich muss ich das dann auch mit meiner Familien Einklang bringen, ne. Ich bin da so der der der Opi im Gründerkreis, sag ich mal, ne. Und entsprechend ist das auch, was halt bei mir relativ weit oben hängt von Wieso bist Du der Opi Gründer bist? Na ja, ich bin ja jetzt 38, ne und dann meine Mitgründer, die waren ja dann quasi alle so ganz kurz nur Arbeitserfahrung und dann an die Uni. Und ich war ja dann letztlich schon 12 Jahre quasi Schulabschluss und dann bis zur Uni sind bei mir 12 Jahre dazwischen, an denen ich halt einfach schon andere Sachen gemacht hab, ne. Ah, und das ist auch der Lebensläufe, über den Du sprechen wolltest. Was hast 'n da gemacht? Nein, jetzt verrat ich's nicht ganz. 2 Minuten Frau Schluss fällt mir auch so ein. Da ist so da ist son Zehnjahres Gap in deinem, wie ich das alles erlebt kann. Ja, ich mein, die steht auch auf LinkedIn, ne. Ich mein, ich war dann halt bei der Bundeswehr und war da Militärpolizist. Das hab ich übersehen. Interessant. Oh man, das volle spannende Teil. Okay, wie das 12 Jahresspanne. Nee. Also mein, letztlich war ich ja immer affin, ne, was so Computer angeht. Ja. Bei mir war's halt eher so die Gamingrichtung und dann war halt Schule zu Ende. Und da hab ich mir halt gedacht, okay, entweder Software, das hatt ich damals aber komischerweise noch nicht so aufm Schirm. Und dann war ich bei der Bundeswehr, hab mich da freiwillig gemeldet. Dann zügig gemerkt, dass das nicht das ist, was ich mein Leben lang machen möchte. Mhm. Und dann halt während der Dienstzeit mich wieder auf meine eigentlichen, auf mein eigentliches Faible berufen und dann mich damit schon mal beschäftigt, ne. Und dann halt auch eben über das Studium angehangen. Alle Wege führen nach Rom. Genau. Genau. Wie lang warst Du bei der Bundeswehr dann? Also 10 Jahre aktiv und dann 2 Jahre waren ja quasi dann schon diese Übergangsphase, in denen ich dann studiert hab schon. Ah, okay. Da hast Du in Würzburg studiert, ne? Genau. Und warum ist kein Gaming geworden? Fragt der Gamingentwickler. Ja, gute Frage. Wahrscheinlich weil Web einfach leichter zugänglich war damals. Na gut, man kann ja auch mit Webtechnologien Spiele bauen. Vielleicht das nächste Mal dann. Aber ich glaub, also, Gareth, ne, ich glaub tatsächlich, dass so so Gaming in Deutschland manchmal einfach son schwieriges Standbein hat, weil Du halt nicht so die die paar großen Firmen irgendwie kennst, wo Du dich bewerben solltest. Also es gibt in Deutschland 'n bisschen Nintendo und es gibt irgendwie CryyTech und so, hast Du alles nicht gesehen, die paar großen. Klar. Aber also ohne jetzt hier Lotum zu sehr in die Pfanne hauen zu wollen, aber ich glaub, auch die Allerwenigsten da draußen haben Lotum auf dem Schirm, wenn sie irgendwie Gaming machen wollen. So, das ist halt immer son bisschen, Ja. Muss man mal nachschauen. Also wenn ihr da draußen Gaming machen wollt, schreibt gar nicht eine E-Mail. Vor allem, wenn man das mit Wetterschurken macht. Ja. Wunderbar. Ja, spannend. Sehr spannend. Okay, okay, dann sind wir damit durch. Danke dir, Fabian, für das Gespräch. Danke, dass ich hier ran durfte. Danke, Garelt für die Zeit. Remote extra hier noch mal zugeschaltet ins Studio. Ich wollte unbedingt dabei sein. Ich fand's 'n sehr gutes Gespräch. Vielen Dank. Wunderbar. Dann hoffen wir, es hat euch da draußen auch gefallen. Wenn ihr Feedback, Rückfragen oder Ähnliches habt, dann am besten in unseren Discord kommen und gerad fragen, wie man Spiele mit Webtechnologien umsetzt. Ansonsten gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder einfach einen Kommentar auf den gängigen Social Media Kanälen hinterlassen. Wir lesen das in der Regel, sag ich mal, zeitnah mit. Wunderbar. Anton, tschau tschau, bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis bald. Macht's 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen CTO Special hier in der Programmierer, heute mit 1 Besonderheit. Und zwar nicht nur, dass der Garrit mit mir hier am Start ist. Hi, Garrit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hi.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sondern dass wir einen Gast haben, der schon mal bei uns war und es aber irgendwie nie zu euch nach draußen zu den Hörerinnen und Hörern geschafft hat aus Gründen, die ich nicht nachvollziehen konnte. Wir haben versucht, das irgendwie im Archiv wiederzufinden, die Folge, die da mal aufgenommen wurde, und haben dann einfach beschlossen, wir nehmen sie noch mal auf. Wir haben heute im im Gast zum Studio, zu im Studio zu Gast, oh mein Gott, das ist noch sehr früh. Fabian Hagen. Hallo Fabian, schön, dass Du da bist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich grüße euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Fabian, Du bist CTO und Mitgründer bei Fahren.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist richtig, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und so wie ich das verstanden hab in der Biografie, habt ihr Fahren direkt in Schrägstrich nach der Uni Zeit gegründet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, wir haben direkt in der Uni angefangen als Projektarbeit im sechsten Semester. Und das hat dann so gut funktioniert, dass wir gesagt haben, wir ziehen das komplett durch und gehen direkt in die Gründung und betreiben das seitdem jetzt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und unabhängig von der vielleicht etwas esoterischen Schreibweise, hat Fahren durchaus was mit Autofahren zu tun?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, da tatsächlich ist das die Anlehnung son bisschen daran, ne, da einfach eine gewisse Nähe und Klarheit dann auch zu schaffen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und für alle da draußen, die das jetzt grade versuchen zu googeln, fahren schreibt man mit Doppel-a. Und ohne Weil das h schon ausverkauft war oder was?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das war uns dann doch zu plump. Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, also FAAREN fahren. Vielleicht kannst Du einmal ganz kurz beschreiben, was er eigentlich macht und dann sprechen wir\n\nSpeaker 2: darüber, wie er das gemacht hat. Ja, sehr gerne. Also im Kern sind wir einen Marktplatz für Auto Abo. Also Auto Abo für diejenigen, die jetzt noch nicht so geläufig ist, ist quasi eine Alternative zu Leasing, Finanzierung, Kauf und Kurzzeitmiete. Also sprich, wir reden hier auch über Laufzeiten von mindestens einem Monat, aber bis hin zu wirklich 36 Monate, also als starke Alternative zu Leasing.\n\nJa, und das betreiben wir halt, wie schon gesagt, als Marktplatz. Das heißt, wir bringen auf der einen Seite unsere Händler, also unsere Partner, was dann so der normale kleine Schotterplatz Autohändler sein kann, aber auch OEM Hersteller direkt oder auch Banken zusammen mit dem Endkunden auf der anderen Seite, das dann der Single ist, der einfach gerne mal 'n sportliches Auto ausprobieren möchte oder die Familie, die irgendwie einen kleinen Muttiwellen braucht, damit in den Urlaub zu fahren, bis hin zu Geschäftskunden oder auch kleinen mittelständischen Firmen, die dann bei uns ihren Fuhrparkservice oder ihren Fuhrpark haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Automiete, also Langzeitmiete, nicht jetzt so SIX oder so was, ne, ist ja ein Modell, was, glaub ich, in den letzten Jahren doch deutlich bekannter geworden ist. Aber ihr betreibt das Ganze ja schon länger. So zur zeitlichen Einordnung, wann seid ihr mit Fahren gestartet?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir haben jetzt im September siebenjähriges Jubiläum gefeiert, ne. Das ganze Projekt läuft jetzt schon fast 8 Jahre, ne. Wie gesagt, wir haben an der Uni gestartet. Da ist auch die Idee hergekommen, weil letztlich 1 unserer Mitgründer das Ganze mal aus den USA mit aufgeschnappt hatte. Und wir uns dann gedacht haben, wir probieren das einfach mal in Deutschland.\n\nAlso in Summe sind's jetzt fast 8 Jahre, in denen wir das betreiben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und damit wart ihr ja mit 1 oder die Ersten, die das hierzulande angeboten haben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mit die Ersten, ja. Genau. Eigentlich von Anfang an mit dabei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber es war schon, hat das ein Projekt, was ihr für die Uni gemacht habt erst? Also es war irgendwie eine Aufgabe oder auch eine Abgabe. Und dann habt ihr danach einfach gedacht, okay, ihr wolltet rauskriegen Oder wo stand 'n das Projekt nach der nach diesem nach der Abgabe? War es dann schon so, okay, es läuft schon, ne, ihr könnt schon 'n Kunden drauf lassen oder war's dann noch sehr viel mehr\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, wir hatten's denn Glück zu machen. Wir hatten tatsächlich die ersten Buchungen dann. Also kurz zur Einordnung, wir sind alle quasi an der THWS in Würzburg gewesen, haben dort alle E-Commerce studiert, der gesamte Gründerkreis im selben Jahrgang. Mhm. Und im fünften Semester ist man dann ja quasi draußen in der Wirtschaft, sag ich mal, irgendwann in der Firma, macht's sein Praxissemester.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also wir reden von 'nem Bachelorstudiengang, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, Bachelorstudiengang. Und im sechsten Semester musste man sich in kleinen Projektgruppen zusammenfinden und dann irgendwas im sechsten Semester auf die Beine stellen. Ne, E-Commerce-Studiengang war da ganz praktisch, weil da halt letztlich sich alles zusammenkommt von Onlinemarketing, Programmierung, aber auch 'n bisschen BWL Part. Und dann haben wir das da eben angefangen, hatten dann auch unser erstes Partner Autohaus in Würzburg und dann tatsächlich unsere ersten Buchungen. Und das war dann eben der Punkt, an dem wir gesagt haben, gut, das scheint zu funktionieren, wir gehen den nächsten Schritt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt fühl ich mich ehrlicherweise 'n bisschen schlecht mit meiner grottigen Bachelorarbeit, weil da ist irgendwie keine Firma draus geworden. Aber aber es, also ich mein, ist ja cool, so. Aber wie wie muss man sich das vorstellen? Weil a, brauchst Du ja schon mal die richtige Gruppe an Menschen dafür, ne. Wie Du schon gesagt hast, Du brauchst jemanden, der das 'n bisschen baut.\n\nDu brauchst irgendwie jemand, der die Idee mitbringt, jemand, der vielleicht son bisschen das Betriebswirtschaftliche da irgendwie sich mehr anguckt und das Modell mal durchrechnet, ob das sich überhaupt so tragen kann. Wie habt ihr so zueinander gefunden und wie habt ihr die Aufgaben verteilt? Weil ich hab jetzt zwar nicht E-Commerce studiert, aber ich würde es mir eher als son sehr generalistischen Studiengang vielleicht vorstellen, ja. Und dann ist ja gar nicht gesagt, ne, dass da überhaupt Leute drin sind, die jetzt supergerne programmieren wollen oder die supergerne irgendwie mit Buchhaltung beschäftigen. Und wie seid ihr da zueinandergekommen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, lustigerweise saßen wir eigentlich schon fast ab dem ersten Semester immer zusammen, so in 1 in 1 Reihe, ne. Hatten da dann auch schon unsere Spezialisierungen. Also ich war schon immer der der programmieraffine Typ, hab dann da halt auch bei den entsprechenden Modulen mitgeholfen, den Leuten, die jetzt nicht programmieren konnten. Auf der anderen Seite hatten wir dann halt unseren Mitgründer Konstantin, der halt Marketing gemacht hat. Der hatte das vor dem Studium, war ja schon in Marketingagenturen, hat das quasi schon beruflich ausgeübt, ja.\n\nDaniel, unser Geschäftsführer, ist schon immer Start upaffin gewesen, war schon immer in dem Bereich tätig. Also Fundraising war da letztlich auch nichts Neues für ihn. Und der Rest war dann Learning by Doing, ne. Also ich mein, wir hatten dann noch 2 andere Mitgründer mit dabei. Und dann waren wir in allen Bereichen eigentlich vertreten.\n\nAlso von dem operativen Geschäft, was so financehemen angeht, People and culture, LEGäten Themen über Marketing, Produktmanagement, Development. Also wir waren dann eigentlich so divers aufgestellt, dass wir von vornherein alle, sag mal, alle Fähigkeiten hatten, anzufangen zumindest.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und für diese Studienarbeit war das Ziel, ein Produkt zu entwickeln oder ein Geschäft, weil da gehört ja viel mehr dazu, ne. Du musst es irgendwie anmelden, Du musst es richtig aufsetzen. Du musst brauchst echte zahlende Kunden, Du brauchst Supplier auf der anderen Seite so. Was war die Aufgabe? Also wolltet ihr eigentlich nur den Marktplatz bauen und das hat sich so ergeben, dass es tatsächlich funktioniert hat?\n\nOder war von Anfang an so die Idee, nee, nee, da sollen auch irgendwie, da soll Geld drüberfließen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, also das Ziel in dieser Projektarbeit war dann eigentlich eher so das Konzept dahinter, son maximal son proof of Konzept und der Rest hat sich dann danach ergeben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mit welcher Note habt ihr das abgeschlossen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das wollt's auch grad. Also ich\n\nSpeaker 0: mein, das das kann ja nicht besser laufen, als dass es irgendwie läuft\n\nSpeaker 2: so, oder? Ich glaub, das war tatsächlich dann auch eine 1. Das Ja. War dann ganz praktisch, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das wär schon lustig gewesen, wenn das nicht so gewesen wär, ne. Ja, nee, die Idee ist nicht so gut und die Umsetzung auch nicht. Also so eine 3 kriegt er, aber dann Da da gibt's aber,\n\nSpeaker 0: ich hab neulich in der Biografie gelesen, dass der Gründer von FedEx, so die ja dieses Overnightshipping erfunden haben eigentlich, ne, das Konzept auch in der Uniarbeit vorgestellt hatte. Und das revolutioniert halt alles, ne. So Marketing über und Vertrieb über das ganze Land und alles wird möglich und bla. Und sein Professor hat ihm halt gesagt, so, niemals funktioniert das und der ist irgendwie durchgefallen damit. Und dann hat er das halt irgendwie Jahre später aufgebaut und so richtig in Your Face halt irgendwie bei jeder Gelegenheit das den dann noch mal reingerieben so.\n\nJa. Also kann auch anders laufen, ja. Ja. Cool. Wie habt ihr euch diesem Aufbau genähert?\n\nAlso ich mein, heute kann man das ja sagen, ne, also es hat ja offensichtlich geklappt, es ist erfolgreich, es läuft, es wächst. Du hast 'n 'n Team, was ihr da irgendwie in den Entwicklungen habt. Wie viele Leute seid ihr?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also over all sind wir so die 40 und ungefähr ein Drittel davon ist rein Produktentwicklung. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war ja quasi so vor 7 Jahren nicht nicht abzusehen so. Da warst Du ja quasi technisch eine One Man Show, wie ich das verstanden hab. Wie trifft man da dann Entscheidungen, wenn man so am Anfang steht und noch relativ alleine ist und so wie es ja auch klang, die anderen jetzt vielleicht nicht die besten technischen Sparringspartner waren an der Stelle, ja. Wie entscheidet man sich da fürn Stack, für eine Toolchain? Wie setzt man das auf?\n\nWie hast Du sich dem genährt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, tatsächlich eher bin ich dann auf die Tools gegangen, die mir schon vertraut waren. Also wir, unser Text Stack ist lässig PHP mit 'nem Ravelle Framework, im Frontend nutzen wir View. Js. Und das war das, was ich halt in anderen Projekten dann auch schon mal verwendet hatte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Dementsprechend war ich da recht vertraut mit und dann war die Entscheidung relativ schnell klar, ne. Wir hatten kurz überlegt, gehen wir aufn Wordpress, fangen damit an, weil's am Anfang halt deutlich schneller ans Laufen kommt. Oder nehmen wir irgendwie 'n Shopsystem, 'n Shopware beispielsweise und haben uns dann aber aktiv dagegen entschieden, einfach mit dem Grund der Flexibilität, die irgendwann dann doch eingeschränkt ist, ne. Klar, am Anfang tut man sich leichter, später ist man aber sehr stark eingeschränkt. Und das hätten wir jetzt halt mit Lara Wellen in dem Fall jetzt nicht gehabt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weißt Du noch, wie lange Du da ungefähr dran gesessen hast, bis das so, ich sag mal, die ersten 80 Prozent fertig war?\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh, jetzt muss ich ganz kurz nachrechnen. Das war ja bestimmt einen halbes Dreivierteljahr. Okay. Ja. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was ist nicht viel finde für so Auch 'n recht komplexes System, also\n\nSpeaker 0: Und für eine Person alleine, also Ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: genau. Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na, ist ja so. Wenn Du allein, wenn Du überlegst jetzt so, Frontend, Backend, dann hast Du gesagt, Du hast das mit View gemacht. Also es ist ja auch jetzt nicht Server Side Renderd und irgendwie alles easy peasy, sondern das mit 'ner API wahrscheinlich dann auch irgendwie ordentlich gebaut so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nicht von Anfang an? Nee. Also wir waren am\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber man waren ja auch injecten und dann rausrändern.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, eben. Das gibt sich alles. Nee, also wir waren am Anfang wirklich rein monolithisch unterwegs und wir haben da auch viel mit Bladern gemacht. Also VJS kam dann tatsächlich erst später dazu. Okay.\n\nUnd ich muss auch sagen, ich war nicht ganz alleine. Wir hatten einen Studienkollegen, der sich die Fronttendhemen gekümmert hat am Anfang, ne, der dann grade so die Marktplatzseite, also alles, was dann wirklich Endkunden facing ist, hat er uns dann abgenommen oder mir abgenommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wenn Du sagst, ihr habt das vor 8 Jahren angefangen und selbst wenn ihr jetzt nicht ganz am Anfang auf View gesetzt habt, aber irgendwie dann zeitnah ja wahrscheinlich, dann wart ihr ja auch bei View noch relativ früh. Also nicht mehr in soner Alpha- oder Betaphase, aber es war ja zumindest noch View 1, wenn überhaupt schon. Gaga, weil es ist wahrscheinlich auch 'n bisschen besser als ich. Aber View ist ja jetzt ja auch noch nicht so ultraalt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, also wir sind mit 2 sind wir da aktiv rein. Also View 2 hatten wir wirklich produktiven Einsatz und davor war's dann noch, dass wir dann eher halt, wie gesagt, mit Blade und dann hatten wir so plaen Blut mit drin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie seid ihr bei View gelandet? Weil ich mein, vor 7, 8 Jahren, da war ja auch Angela grade noch son bisschen populärer, als das jetzt grade ist. React war schon sehr dominant. Wie sah so der Entscheidungsprozess aus?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es war jetzt für mein Empfinden sehr zugänglich. Also letztlich hab ich mich dann da mit den gängigen Framework auseinandergesetzt. Und View. J. S war damals son bisschen am Kommen und war dann auch sehr, ja, sehr breit gestreut auch in die News, wenn man sich damit beschäftigt hat und dann halt mal getestet und für gut befunden und eingebaut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist tatsächlich was, was ich so schon öfter gehört hab. Also als die sagen so, na ja, wenn Du jetzt nicht gleich irgendwie große bauen willst und so sich son bisschen dem nähern willst, hier mal 'n kleines Widget, da eine Komponente, dann ist irgendwie View Genau. Das, was am Genau. Am lesbarsten und zugänglichsten irgendwie erscheint.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, wir konnten's halt auch dann einfach sukzessive einbauen, ne. Ich mein, ich glaub, Angular war ja so, man musste ja all in gehen quasi, damit zu starten. Und View js konnte man dann eher partiell nutzen, ne. Dann haben wir beispielsweise mitm Checkout angefangen, haben dort Teile mit gebaut, nach und nach dann andere Teile nachgezogen und das war halt einfach angenehmer.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Weil Du grade den Checkout ansprichst, ihr seid ja 'n Marktplatz, weil ihr quasi die Verträge für die Automietung vermittelt, nicht wahr? Ja. Das heißt, kürört ihr euch auch Geld? Ja.\n\nWie war das so? Weil ich weiß, als ich das erste Mal was gebaut hab, wo dann wirklich so Geld durch die Gegend geschoben wird, da wird man so als Entwickler 'n bisschen nervös. Also wenn jetzt hier was passiert und ich muss hier irgendwie, weiß ich, eine Kreditkarte belasten und dann wirklich was einziehen oder ich muss hier eine Transaktion anstoßen oder so was, das ist ja irgendwie was anderes, als irgendwie mal eine Zeile in der Datenbank zu verrutschen. Ja. Habt ihr da was selbst Gebautes genommen?\n\nHabt ihr da irgendwie 'n verwendet? Wie sah das damals aus? Wie sieht das heute aus?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also damals waren wir, quasi, 'n bisschen hemdsärmelig auch unterwegs, muss man so sagen,\n\nSpeaker 0: ne. Kreditkartendaten im Klartext in die Esculette geschrieben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, einfach so direkt die secrets weggeschrieben. Nee, das nicht, also so schlimm war's ja nicht. Aber tatsächlich haben wir dann auch uns vom von den Business hat sich 'n bisschen gewandelt, also ganz am Anfang hatten wir auch der Mobilitätsanbieter. Also mehr oder weniger hatten wir dann die Autos vom Händler übernommen und waren dann direkt im Mietvertrag mit dem Kunden. Das haben wir irgendwann gedreht, weil wir gemerkt haben, da gehört dann so viel anderes noch dazu rein, was die das Management der Fahrzeuge angeht, dass wir das dann gedreht haben zu diesem Marktplatzkonstrukt, wie wir's jetzt haben.\n\nUnd bei den Payment Sachen sind wir letztlich dann auf Stripe gegangen, ne, weil die technisch sehr zugänglich waren. Die waren damals schon von ihrer API sehr gut dokumentiert, sehr gut zugänglich und damit konnten wir dann sehr schnell die Zahlungen auch sicher abwickeln, ne. Und entsprechend auch dieses Marktplatzkonstrukt, also letztlich haben wir dann auch bei Stripe diese Connect Funktionalität, wo wir dann als Plattform agieren und dort die Händler anschließen, jeweils mit 'nem eigenen Stripeaccount. Mhm. Und die Gelder quasi dann durch die Gegend schieben und sogar nicht BaFin Lizenz oder sonst irgendwas kümmern müssen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Stripe hat echt eine eine coole Dokumentation. Als ich noch Developer Relations gemacht hab, war an verschiedenen Stellen eigentlich Stripe immer so der Goldstandard, den man so erreichen will. Stripe, Twilio sind so die ganz Großen da draußen, die echt coole und auch so interaktive Dokumentationen so pioniert haben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nice.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und die haben uns auch wirklich gut in in allen möglichen Edge Cases, die wir so hatten, gut betreut und ja, fühlen uns einfach auch so gut aufgehoben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was ist son Edge Case in der Autovermietung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist dann eher so von den Vertragskonstrukt her, ne, weil vieles machen wir halt direkt über die API. Also wir nutzen Stripes nicht übers Dashboard.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ne, das machen wir dann in seltenen Fällen mal, wenn wir den Abovertrag irgendwie anpassen müssen, den den Betrag et cetera. Und manchmal entstehen dann ganz komische Konstrukte, sagen wir, auf der Datenseite, die man irgendwie aufdröseln muss oder aufräumen muss und dann stellenweise auch wirklich weit in die Historie zurückgehen muss, weil das dann beispielsweise 'n Abo war, das zustande gekommen ist, bevor wir das Konstrukt gedreht haben, ne. Das vertraglich Konstrukt dahinter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, und die habt ihr alle migriert sozusagen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, oder manche halt dann halt auch nicht, weil die durchgefallen sind. Und da braucht man halt einfach Stripesupport und die haben dann immer gut mitgeholfen. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie, ich hatte gelesen und weil Du's auch grad ansprichst, dass Fahren öfter mal das Geschäftsmodell wechseln musste, damit ihr auch irgendwie langfristig gut aufgestellt seid. Hat das auch viele Änderungen bei dir verursacht? Also musstest Du da Also vielleicht erst mal die Frage, was waren das für Geschäftsmodelländerungen und wie viel Aufwand hattest Du da auch mit Dinge umzubauen? Und wie viel konntest Du da von dem, was Du schon hattest, verwenden? Ja.\n\nAlso das das Erste, was ich\n\nSpeaker 2: jetzt schon angesprochen hatte, dass wir einfach die Vertragsbeziehung geändert haben, hin von soner, ich sag mal, linearen Vertrag, wo wir in der Mitte stehen, hin zu 'nem eher Dreieckskonstrukt. Das war tatsächlich relativ unproblematisch, auch technisch betrachtet. Wir haben ja dann aber noch andere Sachen neben dem Marktplatz. Beispielsweise haben wir uns dazu entschlossen, dass wir auch 'n bisschen Richtung SAST Provider gehen, quasi White Label Lösungen entwickeln, die wir dann unseren Partnern anbieten können. Und neben der White Label halt auch APIs, sodass wir dann quasi wirklich direkt integriert werden können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, wenn ich als BMW meine eigene Vermietung, Langzeitvermietung starten will, dann kann ich jetzt quasi euer euer Set-up nutzen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, dass es dann einfach unter der eigenen Brand läuft, ne. Und je nachdem, wie weit die Integration oder wie technisch affin denn der Partner ist, geht das halt von der White Label quasi einen One Click Setup, sag ich jetzt mal, bis hin zu, man möchte das schon bestehende Systeme integrieren über die API, wo's dann sehr technisch wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und das war dann technisch natürlich schon 'n dickeres Brett, was wir bohren mussten, ne, weil wir dann auch die ganze Infrastruktur und die Systemarchitektur dahinter infrage gestellt haben, geguckt haben, wie bringen wir das jetzt eigentlich mit den Monolithen, die wir damals noch hatten, halt wirklich in Einklang.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie habt ihr das gelöst? Man kann ja so White Label Sachen im Prinzip immer auf 2 Arten lösen. Entweder man setzt son Multitanant System auf, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Anwendung, die im Prinzip läuft, aber halt verschiedene, was der deutsche Begriff für Tenant, Kunden im Prinzip so unterstützt. Oder man instanziert halt dieselbe Codebase irgendwie siebenundzwanzigmal jeweils mit kleinen Änderungen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Da haben wir uns dagegen entschieden. Wir wollten jetzt nicht dann lauter verschiedene Codebases haben. Es stand zwar mal im Raum, weil wir überlegt haben, gut, wenn jetzt 'n Kunde wirklich sehr hohe Individualisierungsansprüche hat, würde man sie sicherlich leichter tun, wenn man die gesamte Codebase irgendwie dupliziert. Bück natürlich unglaubliche Gefahren, weil dann hat man 'n paar Klienten, die das sehr individuell haben wollten und rucki zucki hat man einfach massiv viele unterschiedliche Codebases und keiner blickt mehr durch, ne.\n\nDeswegen haben wir uns dagegen entschieden. Wir haben dann gesagt, okay, die zentrale Geschäftslogik ist die gleiche, auch wenn ich jetzt eine White Label hab oder das über die API passiert. Von daher haben wir gesagt, wir behalten die bei uns im Kernsystem und haben dann für die White Labels außenrum kleinere spezialisierte Services gebaut, beispielsweise für das Konfigurationsmanagement, dann der Shop an sich, der White Label Shop ist quasi auch losgelöst von unserem zentralen System, sodass wir da wirklich auf diese individuellen Anforderungen eingehen konnten. Und von der Architektur haben wir's so gemacht, wir haben quasi eine skaliefige Instanz davonstehen, die je nachdem, über welche URL das aufgerufen wird, mit welchen Konfigurationsparametern, dann halt spezifisch die Kunden die Kundenkonfiguration lädt, ne, und das entsprechend dann halt anders aussieht und sich anders verhält.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist ist die Herausforderung bei soner Whitelabelösung eher der der Shop und das das Frontend, weil es soll bei, weiß nicht, BMW halt irgendwie sehr nach deren CI aussehen. Und bei, ich sag mal, dem nächstbesten Autohaus ist es irgendwie egal, die wollen nur ihr Logo drin haben so ungefähr, ja. Oder ist die Challenge eher, also ich hab von Autos jetzt ehrlicherweise nicht ultraviel Ahnung, aber ich stell mir vor, dass es halt 1000000000 unterschiedliche SKUs sind, weil ja kein Auto im Prinzip zweimal sozusagen vorkommt, ne. Es kommt irgendwie zu euch mit 'nem anderen Baujahr, mit 'ner anderen Erstzulassung. Also die unterscheiden sich ja quasi alle.\n\nUnd es ist nicht so, dass Du jetzt sagst, ich leg hier einmal mein Auto an und hab davon 100 Stück auf Lager und wart jetzt, bis die alle weg sind, sondern das ist ja wahrscheinlich super pflegeintensiv, diesen Produktkatalog da irgendwie aufzubauen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es geht tatsächlich. Also wir haben uns dann 'n bisschen generalistisch gehalten. Also letztlich haben wir die Möglichkeit, bei uns die Fahrzeuge dann individuell anzulegen, also wirklich das eine physische Fahrzeug. Wir haben auch die Möglichkeit, dann stapeln, nennen wir's bei uns anzulegen, also dass dann halt 'n großer Händler sagt, ich hab jetzt einhundert Ford Focus. Und dann legt er das einmal an mit den spezifischen Ausstattungsmerkmalen und sagt halt, davon hab ich 100.\n\nJa und dann duplizieren wir das Fahrzeug im Hintergrund, wenn das Abo startet, dann haben wir ja das physische Fahrzeug, dann können wir das anreichern, die notwendigen Attribute noch. Also das war jetzt nicht das so Problematische. Problematisch war's oder herausfordernder war's eher die spezifischen Anforderungen, ne. Dann gibt's 'n Kunde, der möchte 'n geschlossenen Shop haben. Also man kommt nur rein auf Einladung oder nur mit vorheriger Registrierung, der andere möcht's offenhalten.\n\nWieder jemand anderes möchte da seine eigenen Gutscheine und Coupons irgendwie drin haben. Und das war dann wesentlich herausfordernder, das dann zu realisieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ohne jetzt zu viel von euren Geschäftszahlen zu verraten, aber wie viele von diesen White Labelösungen unterhaltet ihr so? Ja, die sind Größenordnungen reicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, so im oberen zweistelligen Bereich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ihr macht das, ihr habt ja euren eigenen Marketplace, ne? Ja. Und kannst Du denn sagen, was Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr diese White Level Lösung ja danach aufgesetzt habt. Also ihr hättet euer Marketplace, habt gesehen, okay, andere kommen zu uns und fragen, ob sie das auch haben können. War das denn, also ist das jetzt der größere Geschäftsbereich eigentlich?\n\nOder fokussiert ihr euch hauptsächlich auf eure eigene Plattform? Oder läuft das so parallel? Also was ist so euer Hauptfokus?\n\nSpeaker 2: Fokus ist der Marktplatz, ne. Das ist wirklich unser unser Kerngeschäft, auf den wir uns so konzentrieren. Mhm. Und das andere sind dann eher so Sachen, die wir quasi mit in die Waagschale werfen können, ne, wenn's dann die Entscheidungsfindung beim Partner geht und beim Kunden und sagt, okay, wir bieten halt noch das an und das an. Und das ist dann halt immer gern gesehen, weil sich das gegenseitig halt auch, ich sag jetzt mal befruchtet, ne.\n\nWeil wir beispielsweise Kunden, die eine Whitelabel benutzen, die können wir ja trotzdem auf dem Marktplatz Reichweite generieren, ne. Und das ist halt schon mal 'n wichtiger Punkt, weil wir gemerkt haben, 'n Partner, der das komplett selbstständig machen möchte, muss zum einen halt die Softwareentwicklung ja irgendwie Inhouse machen oder über eine Agentur, die er selbst steuert. Dann muss er Marketing machen. Er muss halt wirklich dahinter sein. Er muss 'n operatives Team aufbauen, was dann das Ganze betreut.\n\nUnd das ist halt eine unglaublich höhere hohe Einstiegshürde. Und über unseren Marktplatz und darüber, dass wir halt dann auch beispielsweise 'n Endkundensupport mit übernehmen, ist der Einstieg wesentlich einfacher, ne. Und dann kann man quasi das Beste aus den beiden Systemen nutzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was vorhin auch gesagt, dass es euch schon wichtig war, dass das dieselbe Codebase am Ende bleibt und nicht so sehr fragmentiert wird. Wie viele Momente habt ihr so, wo ihr in eure Codebase dann 'n Feature einbaut, was jetzt ein neuer Kunde sich beispielsweise wünscht. Und der Marktplatz, andere Kunden profitieren auch davon versus wie oft baut ihr Lösungen eigentlich nur für einen Kunden und die anderen haben da nicht so viel davon?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das war tatsächlich 'n Lernprozess, den wir auch in der gesamten Firma durchlaufen mussten. Ganz am Anfang waren wir natürlich davon getrieben, immer möglichst große Kunden zu bekommen und da haben wir auch sehr viel sehr individuell gemacht, ja. Und da sind wir mittlerweile komplett von weg. Also alles, was wir jetzt einbauen, bauen wir so, dass es für den für das gesamte System genutzt werden kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und macht dir das auch so, dass es dann automatisch für alle anderen Kunden auch erscheint? Weil das ist ja immer so, beim Multitalant Systemen die Frage, ne, diese ganzen Features, die Du quasi quer subventionierst durch deine anderen Kunden, willst Du die anderen Kunden auch gleich zur Verfügung stellen oder ist das son Upselling Ding dann eher oder habt ihr son, weiß nicht, 'n getiertes Pricing Modell oder so? Wie wie entscheidet ihr, welche neuen Features an wen ausgerollt werden? Oder kriegt einfach jeder alles immer?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, das bekommt nicht jeder pauschal. Das machen wir son bisschen abhängig vom Feature selbst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oder ist es jetzt Beispiel beispielsweise eine Erweiterung in der API, dann ist das eigentlich eher für alle verfügbar. Ist es jetzt eher was, sagen wir, bei uns in der in der Verwaltungsoberfläche, bei uns im Partner Dashboard ist, dann machen wir's auch mal abhängig davon, ob wir da vielleicht 'n kleines Preispaket draus schnüren und das dann quasi son Add on ist, was 'n Partner buchen kann bei uns.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und nutzt ihr für so was Feature Flex? Macht ihr das kundenspezifisch wie, also ich musste so was auch mal bauen, deswegen würd ich so superinteressiert daran, ja, und ich weiß, in welche Löcher man da irgendwie alles fallen kann. Konfiguriert ihr das wirklich pro jedem Kunden neu oder habt ihr euch einmal so überlegt, okay, es gibt hier Kundenprofil ABC und je nachdem, wo Du dann reinfällst, kriegst Du halt irgendwie Features oder eben nicht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir haben son kleine selbst gebaute Feature Flag, son kleines Feature Fleck System, wo wir das dann halt aktivieren pro Partner. Genau. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Du hast vorhin gesagt, ihr habt im Zuge dessen auch son bisschen euch die ganze Architektur noch mal angeguckt und überlegt, wie ihr das dann so sauber aufsetzen könnt für viele Kunden dann entsprechend. Habt ihr jemals euren Gesamtstag so hinterfragt, sagt so, oh, dieses PHP und dieses Lahrvelle und View, das hat uns zwar am Anfang gut getragen. Das kann ja super legitim sein, ne. Ich find immer, man man darf so Lösungen nicht nicht zu kritisch sehen, weil immerhin haben sie sich dahin gebracht, wo Du bist und das ist ja schon irgendwie immer gut.\n\nAber trotzdem darf man ja auch diesen Zeitpunkt nicht verpassen, einmal zu hinterfragen, ob's quasi Zeit wird, das alles mal in die Tonne zu treten und vielleicht auf, ich weiß es nicht, in Java neu zu bauen oder hast Du nicht gesehen so, ja. Wart ihr da schon? Habt ihr euch dagegen entschieden? Habt ihr euch dafür entschieden und macht das irgendwann oder wie guckt ihr heute auf diesen Stack?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also wir hatten diesen Moment mindestens zweimal. Also das das eine Mal war, da wir dann uns als Team zusammengesetzt, haben gemerkt, okay, pass auf, irgendwo haben wir halt auch technische Schulden. Das System hat halt seine Macken, die es halt so hat über die 8 Jahre und haben dann uns verschiedene Technologien angeguckt. Also wir haben dann Richtung nodejas geguckt, wir haben Richtung Python geguckt und haben das dann evaluiert. Und dann hatten wir sone Phase auch noch mal mit Go.\n\nMit Go waren wir dann tatsächlich so weit, dass wir gesagt haben, wir bauen jetzt Services mit Go, ne. Das haben wir dann auch für ein, 2 Services gemacht und wollten dann auch an unser großes Kernsystem ran. Letztlich haben wir dann aber gemerkt, dass die Lernkurve doch so steil ist und wir dadurch dann halt so abgelenkt sind von unserem Business eigentlich, ne, dass wir das Business voranbringen, dass die Gefahr zu groß war, dass der Rest eigentlich stehen bleibt. Also dass das Business, der Support, die Key Account Manager quasi mit dem arbeiten müssen, was da ist und das nicht weiter vorangetrieben werden kann. Dass wir gesagt haben, das funktioniert nicht mehr.\n\nWir können nicht 'n kompletten Technologiesift machen an der Stelle. So, dass wir, ja? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Darf ich da kurz einhalten? Das find ich so spannend. Wie habt ihr das gemerkt? Also das ist ja gar nicht so einfach zu merken, dass man da zu viel Fokus auf anderen Themen hat. Also habt ihr einfach gemerkt, okay, wir reden in Meetings über die falschen Themen zum Beispiel?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja oder immer über dieselben Probleme, ne. Also das ist eigentlich 'n ganz guter Indikator, wenn denn 'n Key Account Manager kommt und sagt, okay, der Partner wartet jetzt seit, überspitzt gesagt, 8 Wochen dadrauf, dass dieser Back gefixt wird, ne, der jetzt nicht kritisch ist, aber den spezifischen Partner immer wieder ärgert. Und dann muss man sich halt dann irgendwann fragen, okay, haben wir jetzt die Freiheit, die technologische Freiheit wirklich, uns da auszuleben in Anführungszeichen oder müssen wir halt da erst mal 'n Schritt zurückgehen und sagen, okay, wir müssen schauen, dass das Wissen halt weiterläuft?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, okay. Ja, das ergibt's dann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und letztlich die Taktik, die wir jetzt fahren, also wir nennen's jetzt bei uns Salamitaktik. Wir haben halt gemerkt, wir können einfach nicht diesen großen Switch auf einmal machen, sondern wir schauen uns einfach, wenn wir Features haben. Beispielsweise müssen wir was auf dem Katalog machen, aufm Marktplatz eine Checkout Strecke, dass wir das dann halt immer mit dem Ziel auf die neue Technologie betrachten, ne. Also unser technologisches Ziel vom vom Refactoring und so ist eigentlich, dass wir 'n zentrales API System haben, was unser Kernsystem ist, dass wir dann entsprechend dahin entwickeln, die Frontends entsprechend alle rauskoppeln, sodass die nur noch über die APIs reden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber das Kernsystem bleibt im PHP?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Genau, das bleibt im PHP, weil es einfach den Anformen genügt, ne. Das muss man an der Stelle auch einfach so sagen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr seid ja auch zu 'ner Zeit gestartet, wo PHP 'n sehr interessanten Wandel durchlebt hat, sag ich mal, ja. Also wenn ich 8, 9 Jahre zurückguck oder oder vielleicht noch 'n paar Jahre mehr, wenn Du selber mit PHP während der Studienseite angefangen hast Und dann hin zu PHP 7 und jetzt 8 sehr starke Typisierungen, die da irgendwie kommen, statische Codeanalyse, die jetzt irgendwie überall da ist. Das ist ja auch nicht mehr das, mit dem ihr angefangen habt. Ja. Wahrscheinlich.\n\nHoffentlich. Wie habt ihr aber das geschafft, diese ganzen, ich will nicht sagen Trends, weil das Kind zu abwertend, aber diese diesen Wandel eben mitzunehmen irgendwie auch und dann da die Früchte eben auch von ernten zu können?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also wir haben halt letztlich da auch immer hinterfragt, wie wir denn entwickeln, wie wir programmieren und wie wir da halt auch besser werden können und haben da halt versucht, auf dem Wege diese Sachen mitzunehmen, ne. Ob's jetzt die statische Codeanalyse ist oder ob's jetzt, sag ich mal, weggehen von unser PHP läuft irgendwo auf 'nem extra dafür konfigurierten Webserver hin zu Containerisierung, ne. Und dann sind wir auf dem Weg da immer son bisschen mit mitgegangen und mit reingerutscht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie schaffst Du das? Wie schafft ihr das im Team, so Sachen nebenbei zu lernen? Weil auch, wie man einen ordentlichen Container baut und deployed muss ja muss man ja mal gelernt haben, das fällt ja nicht vom Himmel so wissen. Wie wie integriert ihr das in euren Alltag?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, vieles ist tatsächlich Eigenmotivation, also bin ich auch recht happy über das Team, das ich hab, die da halt einfach diesen eigenen Antrieb haben, ne. Also wir haben da auch drauf geachtet, letztlich beim Aufbau des Teams, diese Eigenverantwortung und diesen, mal, die Selbstmotivation, da das System zu verbessern, dass wir das irgendwie auch immer mit mit fördern. Und auf der anderen Seite haben wir dann auch geguckt, dass wir Zeiträume schaffen, indem man sich mit solchen Technologien auseinandersetzen kann. Also wir haben beispielsweise jeden Freitag son sone Codingrunde. Das ist, also inhaltlich ist immer was anderes, aber ursprünglich war der Gedanke da, dass man sich da mit neuen Technologien auseinandersetzt.\n\nUnd jetzt haben wir damals mit Go angefangen. Also das heißt, wir haben uns jeden Freitag zusammengesetzt, haben zusammen Go geschrieben, ne. Also da hab ich mich da auch nicht rausgenommen, weil ich musste auch Go lernen, weil letztlich bin ich ja auch immer noch mit relativ nah dran an der Technik. Und da hat's dann ganz gut geklappt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was heißt zusammen Go geschrieben? Also saßt ihr dann alle in 'nem Meeting und hat eine Aufgabe gelöst und eine hat gecodet, also getippt. Oder wie sah das aus?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, sone Mischung. Also zu dem Zeitpunkt war's dann schon so, dass man dann sagt, okay, ich hab son eigenes kleines Go Projekt, an dem programmier ich mich aus. Wenn ich Fragen hab, dann kann ich die quasi direkt in der Runde stellen, ne. Wir hatten dann damals 2 Vorreiter an Go, die da sehr schnell Zugang zu gefunden hatten, die das quasi angeleitet haben, ne. Und dann ja auch schon an dem lebenden Services, den wir damals hatten, direkt schon da Features gemeinsam implementiert haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast gesagt, ihr habt da bei dem Teamaufbau son bisschen drauf geachtet, dass da schon die Leute irgendwie mit dem mit dem Mindset, was ihr da sucht, eben hinkommen. Wie war das damals so, den ersten Entwickler einzustellen? Weil das ist ja so die die erste Person, die Du heierst, die ist ja so sehr prägend für das Team, was danach potenziell kommt. Was war das für eine Erfahrung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Eine sehr spannende Erfahrung. Also ganz am Anfang hatten wir hatte ich dann 2 Werkstudenten, die wir quasi bei uns ausm Uni Umfeld dann mitgeholt haben. Das war schon eine Umstellung, weil man einfach von so Einzelkämpfermodus, ich muss das irgendwie alles alleine machen, das dann plötzlich auch 'n bisschen mitsteuern musste. War am Anfang gar nicht so einfach, auch wenn's nur 2 Leute sind, aber irgendwie muss man die auch bespaßen, ne. Man kann ja nicht sagen, da ist der Code, jetzt mach, wie Du denkst.\n\nUnd als dann Ist\n\nSpeaker 0: doch Vibe Coding, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist das nicht so?\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und son richtiger Aha Moment war's dann, als dann tatsächlich der erste Seniorentwickler dazugekommen ist. Ne, das war dann so richtig, okay, ich muss nicht mehr alles haarklein erklären, sondern man kann einfach auf 'ner Metaebene sprechen und sagen, okay, das ist die Problemstellung. Und jetzt bitte mach einfach, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist ja die die eine Art der Umstellung, so dieses Inhaltliche, ne. Du hast jemanden, der dir auch son bisschen Mental Load abnimmt. Du kannst so High Level Sachen diskutieren und dann passt das schon irgendwie mit der mit der Implementierung am Ende. Die andere Umstellung ist ja so die Organisatorische. Auf einmal musst Du anfangen, dir zu überlegen, wie haben Aufgaben vielleicht Abhängigkeiten voneinander?\n\nWas ist irgendwie wichtiger? Was gibst Du an an wen? So dieses ganze, ich ich weiß nicht, was ihr nutzt, aber so Giratickets jonglieren, sag ich mal, ja. Wie wie habt ihr da reingefunden? Insbesondere wenn jetzt bei dir, ne, von von der Uni kommt, da hat man ja noch nie vorher vielleicht in sonem anderen größeren Konzern gearbeitet und das mal gelernt oder gesehen, wie andere das vielleicht so machen.\n\nIch würde mir vorstellen, dass es für euch son bisschen Learning by Doing war an der Stelle. Wie seid ihr da durchgekommen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also tatsächlich hatt ich das Glück, dass ich dann in meinem Praxissemester bei Wirt IT war. Also ich hab tatsächlich Konzernen dann mitgemacht und da auch son paar Projektmanagementsachen einfach mitnehmen können. Und die dann halt 'n Stück weit adaptiert. Ich sag mal, was das Tooling angeht, ne, weil ansonsten ist ja wird IT hab 'n bisschen anderes Kaliber als wir jetzt. Und wir haben dann auch relativ zügig einen Product Owner mit dazugeholt, der dann einfach die Erfahrung mitgebracht hat.\n\nAlso das war an der Stelle auch eigentlich immer der bewährte Weg, anstatt alles sich selbst dann anzueignen, eher zu gucken, lasst doch lieber Leute holen, die das halt schon 'n paar Jahre gemacht haben, ne, deren Expertise das ist. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also das hab ich so noch nicht so oft gehört, dass 'n Product Owner so mit bei den ersten Hiers irgendwie dabei ist. Viele versuchen ja auf Biegen und Brechen son Developmentteam Team erst mal groß zu machen und dann ja, so Product Owner, die braucht man, wenn man mal, weiß ich nicht, 40 Developer hat, die man irgendwie auseinanderhalten muss oder so. Aber cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool, dass\n\nSpeaker 0: es für euch funktioniert hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mich mich würd's sehr interessieren, wie sich so deine Arbeit geändert hat, weil Du warst ja am Anfang der Hauptentwickler, sehr viel gecoodet. Eben hast Du gesagt, dass Du dich bei Go nicht rausgenommen hast, was ja eher so klingt, dass Du das nicht mehr so viel machst. Wie hat sich das denn so entwickelt? Und was machst Du grade hauptsächlich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also wie Du schon sagst, ne, letztlich vom ich hab die ganzen Sachen selbst geschrieben, dann irgendwann zu soner Übergangsphase hin, wo ich dann schon eigentlich mehr ideengebend und konzeptionell tätig war, aber die Ausführung dann letztlich irgend einen anderer Developer ausm Team gemacht hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und jetzt aktuell ist es eher so, dass ich fast nur noch strategisch aktiv bin, ne, und dann eher wirklich mit unseren Produktmanagern spreche, dass man sagt, okay, was sind die nächsten Features, die wichtig sind, da dann auch wirklich die Konzeptionierung stattfindet und ich dann eher nur mal links und rechts mal reinguck. Stellenweise hab ich son paar Themen, wo ich dann intensiver drin bin, weil beispielsweise die ganzen Payment Sachen sind immer noch so Sachen, wo ich sehr tief drin bin, auch fachlich und da entsprechend auch viel Input im Team geben kann. Da geh ich dann auch mal tiefer rein. Aber an sich ist so mein Schwerpunkt jetzt grade tatsächlich auch AI, ne, wie wir das in der Firma ausrollen und mehr etablieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und so Payment Sachen. Also Payment ist ja nicht nur eine technische Implementierung, aber zumindest jetzt bei uns nicht mehr, sondern wir haben gemerkt, das ist tatsächlich auch 'n Business, das wir ausbauen können, weil's halt auf unser, ja, auf unser Umsatz einzahlen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und als CTO ist man ja auch schon oft verantwortlich für so, also in meinen Augen, wie es den Entwicklern geht oder die auch einzustellen, die weiterzuentwickeln, da bist Du auch viel involviert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also der Heiling Prozess, den mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead Development, ne. Das machen wir quasi Ja. Zusammen. Ja, und ansonsten, was so, ich sag mal, die das Teamgefühl, ne, oder auch die Zufriedenheit im Team angeht, grad bei den Developern, das ist ja, wie Du schon sagst, ne, das gehört auch dazu.\n\nDass man einfach guckt, Mhm. Was die Entwicklungsumgebung angeht. Wie ist die grade? Sorg das eigentlich mehr für Frust? Oder kommt man schnell ans Laufen, wenn man neue Features entwickeln möchte?\n\nUnd das waren so Autothemen, wo ich dann schon guck, dass ich die mit vorantreib. Mhm. Aber das ist so, na ja, fluktuativ, ne, je nachdem, wo halt grade auch irgendwie mein anderer Fokus liegt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Für dieses ganze Thema Teamentwicklung, Hiring, Zufriedenheit braucht man ja auch sone gewisse Vision, wo's so mit dem Team hingehen soll, ja. Wo siehst Du da das Developmentteam bei Fahren in, weiß nicht, 2, 3, 4, 5 Jahren? Ist das eher was, was noch sehr stark wachsen soll? Ist es was, wo Du sagst, nein, wir wir wollen eigentlich auch auf dieser Größe bleiben und eher überlegen, wie können wir mit den Leuten mehr oder andere Sachen schaffen oder irgendwie noch noch Synergien heben oder eher, na ja, wir würden gerne mehr dedizierte Teams für einzelne Aufgaben haben und das Ganze dann son bisschen skalieren. Was soll dein Plan?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich würd das gerne in Richtung crossfunktionale Teams entwickeln. Also wir haben das historisch, also ganz am Anfang waren wir ja eigentlich cross funktional, ne. Wir waren ja quasi eine crossfunktionales Gründerteam,\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Kann\n\nSpeaker 2: man ja sagen. Dann kamen immer mehr Leute dazu auf der Businessseite, auf die Developmentseite, aber irgendwie hat sich dann über die Zeit son bisschen sone Trennung entwickelt, ne. Dass wir sagen, okay, dann ist Business, dann haben wir irgendwie Produktmanagement und dann kommt Development. Und jetzt sind wir grade dabei, das wieder zusammenzuführen. Also wir strukturieren insofern dass die Teams wirklich cross funktional wieder sind und dann 'n gewissen Schwerpunkt haben.\n\nAlso beispielsweise den Endkunden im Fokus oder halt unseren Partner im Fokus. Und mein Ziel wär tatsächlich, dass wir das weiter spezialisieren und ausbauen, dass wir beispielsweise irgendwann einen einen Checkout Team haben, die sich nur darum kümmern, dass die Kunden sauber nicht ins Checkout kommen oder einen Team, das sich da halt wirklich nur darum kümmert, die Partnerprozesse. Und das ist eigentlich so das, worauf ich hinarbeite und wo ich irgendwann sein möchte. Und dann so wirklich 2, 3, 4 Entwickler, 'n Produktmanagement dazu und dann halt ein, 2, 3 relevante Leute aus der Businessseite und die sitzen da wirklich zusammen und arbeiten täglich an dem Problem.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist das Produktmanagement bei euch orchartsmäßig Teil von der Developmentabteilung oder wie habt ihr das aufgebaut?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also das hängt mit bei mir, ne, und dementsprechend haben wir das immer zusammen betrachtet und als zusammengehörig gesehen. Okay,\n\nSpeaker 0: cool, cool. Und wenn Du sagst, mit noch Businessmenschen dann zusammen, also Accountmanagement oder was was was was was was was\n\nSpeaker 2: Accountmanagement oder Endkundensupport, Vertrieb, Marketing. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und cross funktional heißt dann für dich nicht, dass die Entwickler verschiedene Aufgaben übernehmen, sondern dass die Teams so strukturiert sind, dass verschiedene Funktionen zusammensitzen und einfach effizienter zusammenarbeiten können an dem Thema, was sie haben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und dass Entwicklung sich weiter Entwicklung kümmert, allerdings halt in den gesamten Prozess schon sehr früh involviert ist, ne. Also dass man nicht als Entwickler letztlich das fertig ausformulierte Ticket bekommt und eigentlich das nur noch Sturmwohntag programmiert, sondern dann halt letztlich in der Discoveryphase, wie wir das bei uns nennen, Taschen von Anfang an mit drin ist und entsprechend die technischen Aspekte auch mit einbringen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du AI einmal schon angesprochen. Mhm. Aus welcher Brille guckt ihr da drauf? Also man kann es ja intern nutzen für, weiß nicht, ne, Coding Agent oder eben Customer Support irgendwie da da in der Hilfe. Man kann es irgendwie sehen für, ich helf dich hier durch deinen Autokonfigurator durch.\n\nOder auch, Stichwort E-Commerce, so Gentic-Commerce, was ja grad noch so in den ganz frühen Babyschuhen steckt. Was ist da für euch aktuell am relevantesten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Aktuell ist es tatsächlich die, ich sag mal, das vorhandene Team 'n bisschen zu enablen, Also grade im am stärksten ist es grade bei uns im Endkundensupport, ne, wo wir da wirklich auf auch Voice Agents setzen, die dann halt am Telefon mit den Kunden erst mal sprechen, im Rezension Prozess, aber auch im, im, sagen wir mal, Chatbot, der auf der Webseite ist und der Kunde irgendwelche Fragen hat, dass wir den permanent erweitern und der halt so intelligent ist, dass er dann tatsächlich auch in Richtung Autobater, Kaufberater geht, ne. Und daneben schauen wir jetzt einfach, dass wir andere Prozesse automatisieren und mit KI ausbauen, zum Beispiel im Discovery Prozess im Produktmanagement. Dass man sagt, okay, da muss nicht in erster Instanz immer der Stakeholder mit dem Produktmanager reden, sondern da kann auch erst mal der Stakeholder mit dem Agenten reden und das quasi schon mal anreichern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie, wie formuliert man das? Wie konservativ seid ihr bei dem Rollout von so grade Customer Facing Featuren? Es gab ja, ich glaub, letztes Jahr war's diese lustige Geschichte, wo irgendwie son dieser Chavy Bot son Taho für irgendwie ein Dollar verkauft hat, weil der Typ den Chatbot einfach so lange bearbeitet hat, bis er ihm das rechtlich bindend zugesichert hat, ja. Und das ist ja bei den Werten und Gütern, die ihr so verschiebt, schon auch kein leichtes Thema, ja. Wie wie guckt ihr da drauf?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also sie sind ja tatsächlich sehr offen, ne, und probieren da lieber mehr aus als weniger, ne, weil letztlich der rechtlich bindende Teil kommt ja dann erst in Buchungsprozess, ne. Und wenn der dann abgeschlossen ist, von daher haben wir da erst wenig Schmerzen. Klar ist es jetzt nicht ideal, wenn denn der Chatbot da irgendwas Falsches erzählt und der tatsächliche menschliche Mitarbeiter das am Ende ausbaden muss. Aber wir probieren ja lieber mehr aus als weniger.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und Du sagst, der der Chatbot erzählt was Falsches und der Mitarbeiter muss es ausbaden, wie Überwachen ist das falsche Wort. Ich ich such so dann 'n bisschen das das analog zur Telemetrie, ne. Also wenn Du jetzt so deinen deinen Bot da deployed hast oder andere Features, wie schaut ihr da drauf, zu gucken, funktioniert das auch, ne? Sagen die was Richtiges oder fand da, sind die nur so den ganzen Tag vor sich hin?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, wir kriegen das ganz gut mit, weil das sehr intensiv monitoren, plötzlich dann also die KI dahinter, die labelt dann auch die ganzen Gespräche, guckt, ne, wie ist das ausgegangen? Und entsprechend können wir das eigentlich ganz gut eingrenzen, wenn da was schiefläuft und sehen das eigentlich relativ gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Cool. Ja. Und letztlich haben wir dann auch irgendwo immer die Eskalation zum Menschen, ne. Also wenn dann irgendwas nicht weiterkommt, dann ist der Weg zum tatsächlichen menschlichen Mitarbeiter auch nicht weit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und beim Thema AI muss man in Deutschland auch immer fragen so, betreibt ihr da irgendwas selbst? Nutzt ihr irgend 'n offenes Modell? Seid ihr einfach in Anführungszeichen Open AI Kunde? Für was habt ihr euch da entschieden?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir sind Kunde bei den 3 Großen, ne, von Antropic, Gemini und Open AI. Die nutzen wir da. Wir haben uns derzeit einen NHN aufgesetzt, ne. Das betreiben wir in unserer eigenen Infrastruktur. Und ansonsten nutzen wir aber nur die, wie gesagt, diese 3 großen Anbieter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das NHN, also für alle da draußen ist ja son, ich glaub eigentlich mal gestartet als son reines Automatisierungstool mittlerweile mit 'nem großen AI Fokus.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das nutzt ihr für Produktiv Workflows oder für eure internen Prozesse?\n\nSpeaker 2: Sowohl als auch, ne. Also zum Beispiel dieser Endkunden Chatbot, der der Workflow ist dann NLN abgebildet und entsprechend dort auch konfiguriert. Und wir nutzen das aber auch intern für Automatisierung, ne. Also Was? Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Coole Sache, coole Sache. Weil wir\n\nSpeaker 2: kommen da Also angefangen mit Sapia, ne, das geht ja auch in die Richtung. Sind dann irgendwann zu make, weil das von der Bedienung intuitiver war. Und jetzt aber in dem KI Wandel, in dem man sich halt einfach grade befindet, dass NETN einfach der Platzhirsch, ne, der da am flexibelsten ist und am besten zugänglich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ehrlicherweise auch dadurch, dass man die auch gut selber betreiben kann, also also grade so Sapia und Make, die haben ja 'n ein horrendes Kostenmodell so hinten raus, ja. Ja. Also ist ja\n\nSpeaker 1: auch nicht billig. Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Gerald. Ja. Es sah grade bei mir so aus, als wolltest Du eine Frage stellen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich will auch eine Frage stellen. Ich weiß gar nicht so genau, wie gut die hier reinpasst. Ich hab online gelesen, dass Fahren so Fahrennights macht. Ja. Und ich hab mich gesagt Sorry,\n\nSpeaker 0: war was? Ich hab das, Du hast mich verloren. Was macht Fahren?\n\nSpeaker 1: Night. Ach, Neid. Das heißt, einfach Fahren Neid. Und ihr macht das irgendwie seit 3 Jahren Ist\n\nSpeaker 0: das eine Anspruch auf Fahrenheit? Ich bin ja komplett raus grade. Nee.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich kann ja vielleicht einfach kurz erläutern, was das ist dann\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gerne, sehr gerne.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, also wir, unser Bestreben ist ja auch, also auch in unserem Interesse, dass wir halt in der Automotive Branche in Deutschland halt entsprechend auch gut bekannt sind.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Ja, und\n\nSpeaker 2: das ist ja auch letztlich das oberste Ziel von unserem Vertriebschef. Und da haben wir jetzt vor 3 Jahren das erste Mal eine Fahrenneid, also quasi wirklich 'n Abend, aus dem wir dann aus der Händlerschaft, aus der Automotive Branche, sag ich mal, die die Topp Leute einladen, ne. Und dann gibt's quasi einen Abend lang Essen und Getränke auffahren. Und einfach, dass wir da son son Networking Event schaffen, bei dem wir uns natürlich auch platzieren. Mhm.\n\nUnd aber einfach Leute zusammenbringen, mit denen wir dann hoffentlich auch irgendwie in eine Kooperation gehen. So.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, okay, da kommen also eher, also jetzt da kommen jetzt keine Konkurrenten zu euch, sondern eher Händler, Leute, die einfach in der in dem Business unterwegs sind, die auch Kunden für euch sein könnten sozusagen. Genau. Oder Geschäftspartner sind ja keine Kunden, das sind eher Ja. Geschäftspartner, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Macht ihr das so oder wie betreibt ihr das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist eine gute Frage. Nee, wir haben am Anfang war's mittlerweile haben wir's son bisschen geöffnet, dass man sich auch so Tickets kaufen kann, aber es ist schon eine sehr ausgelesene Gruppe, sag ich mal. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und was ich da sehr spannend fand, ihr habt ja kein richtiges Programm dabei, also ihr habt jetzt keine Vorträge oder so was. Und hab also ich hab aber gelesen, dass ihr trotzdem versucht, den Austausch sehr\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaub, was Garald sagen will, ist, er wär gerne mal dabei. Ich wär sehr gerne mal dabei, weil also\n\nSpeaker 1: es also ich frag mich, wie ihr das macht, weil es ist denn, also funktioniert das einfach, wenn man sagt, okay, wir setzen interessante Leute an einen Tisch und sagen, hier ist Essen und Trinken und redet mal. Oder überlegt ihr euch dann auch Themen, über die man sprechen kann? Bereitet ihr da irgendwas vor?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist tatsächlich im Hintergrund in den Kulissen schon ziemlich hart durchgetaktet und auch kurierbar, sag ich mal. Also wir werden da immer alle geimpft von unserem Vertriebler und\n\nSpeaker 0: Heute reden wir nur über XYZ.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja und dann auch wirklich, okay, gehen wir mal bitte auf den zu, der der kommt, reden wir mit dem, weil der hat, keine Ahnung, irgendwelche technischen Probleme, ne, in letzter Zeit immer gehabt. Oder hier ist jemand, der will irgendwie eine tiefere Integration haben. Oder das ist 1, der könnte potenzieller, ich sag mal, Zusatzdienstlast sein für Auslieferung oder Versicherungsprodukte. Und dann schnappt man sich die halt schon auch dediziert, ne. Muss man dann so als Also ist jetzt nicht ist jetzt nicht das gesamte Fahrenteam dabei, sondern ist dann eher so Teamlead, Produktmanagement und so was sind dabei.\n\nJetzt nicht jeder Entwickler. Und da muss man halt über seinen Schatten springen und dann mit den Leuten reden, ne. Das ist dann Vertriebsarbeit, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, aber es geht schon auch viel über technische Themen. Also Du bist dann dafür da, also an dem Abend da, mit Leuten über die technische Seite auch zu sprechen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, sagen wir, Produktthemen, ne. Technisch wäre, glaub ich, zu tief, weil die Leute, die dann aus der Autobranche da sind, die sind nicht technisch affin oder nicht tief genug drin in den technischen Themen, aber so produktseitig auf jeden Fall. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, Cari, Du Jan. Okay. Das\n\nSpeaker 0: war ja grade 'n gutes Beispiel dafür, wie wie wichtig so Zusammenkommen irgendwie auch ist, ja. Und ihr habt ja, als ihr vor 8 Jahren dann gestartet seid, war das ja auch noch vor Corona. Wie habt ihr so Corona erlebt und und überlebt als dann son doch noch recht junges Unternehmen irgendwie auch mit alle arbeiten auf einmal nur noch von zu Hause oder habt ihr das oder habt ihr doch weiter zusammengearbeitet, weil ihr noch gar nicht zu groß wart, als dass das irgendwie kritisch war? Wie haben sich da eure Prozesse umgestellt und wie lebt ihr das heute?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir waren damals, jetzt muss ich kurz überlegen, damals waren wir tatsächlich alle on Zeit, also alle im Raum Würzburg. Also wir saßen eigentlich immer zusammen im Büro. Das haben wir auch versucht, über Corona hinweg so aufrecht zu halten. Hat uns dann aber nach der Coronazeit schon trotzdem auch geholfen, weil wir dann trotzdem mehr digital auch mal gesprochen haben. Und nach Corona, als wir dann auch das Deft Team weiter ausgebaut haben, haben wir dann schon auch nicht nur im Raum Würzburg geguckt, sondern dann auch weiter weg, ne.\n\nAlso durch die 2 Developer, die wir damals hatten, hatten wir dann Connections zu anderen, denen aber mehr in Richtung Köln saßen. Und dann war ruckzuck eigentlich das Developmentteam hybrid oder eigentlich mehr remote, ne. Und das hat sich dann auch son bisschen über die gesamte Firma weiterentwickelt, weil grade dann, was sogar Accountmanagement angeht und Vertrieb, das ist ja dann sind auch keine Leute, die jeden Tag im Büro sitzen, sondern die eher unterwegs sind und die Termine mit den Partnern haben. Und jetzt mittlerweile ist es halt wirklich son Hybridansatz, wobei wir schon ja, Hybridansatz, Punkt, ja, mit seinen Vor- und Nachteilen, ne. Also grade was so die Kommunikation, das Einbinden der Remoteler angeht, das ist nicht immer einfach.\n\nUnd auch quasi immer wären eine Baustelle, an der man immer wieder verbessern und ausbauen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber es ist schon euer erklärtes Ziel, das also die das zu erhalten. Und jetzt nicht zu sagen, na ja, wär uns eigentlich schon lieber, wenn prinzipiell die Leute wieder hier mehr im Büro wären oder eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr ihr wollt dieses Hybride.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir wollen den Austausch, ne. Wie wir da hinkommen, ist jetzt nicht, soll man die erste Frage beantworten und ist wirklich die der erste Punkt ist, dass wir den Austausch hinkriegen wollen. Deswegen ja auch diese crossfunktionalen Teams. Uns ist aber auch bewusst, dass wir in Würzburg sitzen und in Würzburg jetzt nicht, sagen wir mal, die Hochburg der Softwareentwickler ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gut, das sagst Du jemanden, der grade in Bad Nauheim sitzt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und von daher müssen wir uns halt drauf einstellen, dass die Entwickler oder auch andere Spezialisten, das ist ja nicht nur die Softwareentwicklung, dann einfach nicht in Würzburg zu finden sind, sondern dann doch auch Richtung Ruhrgebiet Berlin, Hamburg, München.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn ihr, also auch wenn ihr jetzt keine klassischen Autohändler seid, hängt ihr ja am Ende doch son bisschen an der Autoindustrie als Ganzes so mit dran. Mhm. Das heißt, alle ups and Downs erlebt ihr sozusagen mit. Ist es so volatil, wie ich mir das von außen manchmal vorstelle oder ist das doch eigentlich eher 'n relativ gleichbleibendes Geschäft?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, man kriegt das schon mit. Also wobei uns das oft in die Karten gespielt hat, also jetzt Beispiel auch in Coronazeit, viele der Endkunden haben sich gedacht, okay, ich kann mir jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n Auto finanzieren auf 5 Jahre, weil ich einfach nicht weiß, wo mein Job ist, ja, in den nächsten Monaten. Und dann waren halt diese kurzfristigen Geschäftsmodelle wie jetzt Abo tatsächlich sehr, sehr beliebt, weil dann viele gesagt haben, okay, dann nehm ich lieber 'n Abo mit 'ner Laufzeit von 6 Monaten, ne, was ich dann weiterfahren kann. Aber ich kann's aber auch schnell abstoßen, ne. Und dann hatten wir in der Corona eigentlich 'n Stück weit Aufwind.\n\nUnd auch wenn wir jetzt in der Automobilbranche eine Überproduktion haben oder die Händler die Fahrzeuge noch nicht loswerden, weil's wirtschaftlich irgendwie grade nicht so gut läuft, dann sind wir halt einfach 'n weiterer Vertriebskanal, ne. Auf der anderen Seite, wenn dann halt viel Absatz da ist, dann müssen wir halt auch gucken, wo wir dann unsere Fahrzeuge herbekommen, ne. Das ist dann schon son bisschen ja, immer hin und her.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also es es klingt fast antizyklisch. Sozusagen, na ja, wenn wenn wenn's bei der Automobilindustrie im Großen grade nicht so super läuft, dann ist es für uns vielleicht 'n bisschen einfacher. Mhm. Und wenn's sehr gut läuft und die Autos irgendwie alle weg sind, dann wird's für uns vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen schwieriger.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, kann man durchaus sagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Interessant. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist das was, was so im im Team insgesamt bei euch ankommt, wahrgenommen wird oder eine Rolle spielt? Oder ist das eher so für euch, in der Geschäftsführung relevant, da ab und zu mal draufzuschauen, aber beim Rest kommt da eigentlich überhaupt keine Nervosität oder Spannung an?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, wir versuchen das schon transparent zu gestalten, also dass jeder wirklich Bescheid weiß. Weil halt also supply, sprich also die Fahrzeuge, die wir bei uns haben, ist ja 'n großes Thema. Weil je mehr Angebote wir aufm Marktplatz haben, desto mehr Kunden kommen zu uns und finden das passende Angebot für sich. Und von daher ist es 'n Thema, was wir sehr, sehr hochhalten,\n\nSpeaker 0: ne. Transparenz ist 'n gutes Stichwort. Ich glaube, grade in jungen Unternehmen ist es ja auch vielleicht am Anfang 'n bisschen schwierig, die ersten paar Leute einzustellen, weil da ja natürlich son gewisses Commitment mitkommt zu 'nem zu 'ner Firma, zu 'nem Partner, von dem man ja noch gar nicht weiß, so, gibt's den in 'nem Jahr überhaupt noch so, ne. Also grade die ersten paar Haieers stellen sich die Frage ja schon zurecht auch. Wie macht ihr das jetzt son paar Jahre später, wie wie transparent, also nicht, dass ihr was geheim walten wolltet oder so was, ne, aber wie wie transparent seid ihr so mit mit mit Kennzahlen, mit mit KPIs?\n\nWie interessiert sind da auch die Mitarbeiter überhaupt noch mittlerweile bei soner Größenordnung? Wie wie holt ihr da das Team ab?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die Mitarbeiter sind da sehr interessiert an den Zahlen und wir machen regelmäßig Townhools, wo wir dann wirklich auch konkret sagen, das waren unsere Ziele, ne, dass da stehen wir aber jetzt, sowohl auf der Umsatzseite als auch auf der Kostenseite. Ich mein, wir zeigen jetzt keinen Kontostand, ne, aber letztlich versuchen wir ja schon so transparent zu sein, dass bei jedem auch klar ist, wo wir grade stehen. Also dass da keine Traumschlösser entstehen irgendwie.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das mein ich dann. Ich glaub, das ist halt auch so das Interessante, ne. Hast Du, wenn Du in der Firma arbeitest, irgendwie 'n Verständnis davon, ob's dir grade gut oder schlecht geht. Du musst jetzt nicht wissen, wir haben hier zweieinhalb Millionen Euro auf der hohen Kante und wir verbrennen davon irgendwie 200000 im Monat so. Runway ist dementsprechend klar.\n\nJa. Aber einfach so zu wissen, geht's uns grade gut oder geht's uns grade schlecht, ja. Und kann ja auch alles verschiedene Abstufungen haben. Das ist, glaub ich, schon wichtig für viele.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also unsere Erfahrung war auch einfach, wenn man die Transparenz zeigt, dann motiviert das auch die Mitarbeiter. Also wenn man quasi weiß, wofür man jetzt das hier grade macht, ne, wenn man weiß als Entwickler beispielsweise, dass ich jetzt nicht grade refactoring kann, weil wir jetzt unbedingt irgendwas machen müssen, damit der Umsatz die Umsatzziele erreicht sind, dann ist das anders motivieren, als wenn man quasi dumm gehalten wird, ne. Ja. Und das ist einfach schädlich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab am Anfang gar nicht gefragt, aber habt ihr das selbstfinanziert oder fremdfinanziert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, wir sind fremdfinanziert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Okay. Du hast ja das ist ja aber auch was, was für für Mitarbeiter auch erst mal erklärt werden muss stellenweise wahrscheinlich, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Alright. Alright.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich komm mit noch vielleicht eher mal son paar persönlichen Fragen die Ecke. Ich mein, das ist ja 'n CDO Special, also es geht ja auch irgendwie dich. Und deswegen, wir hatten eben schon das Thema so, dass sich deine Aufgabenfeld verändert hat und Du eigentlich ja auch eher als Entwickler gestartet bist. Mhm. Was was sind denn für Aufgaben dazugekommen, die Du extrem überraschend gut fandest, wo Du dachtest, boah, das interessiert mich voll.\n\nDa hast Du dich voll reingehangen und fand das cool, dass Du diese neue Aufgabe bekommen hast. Und wo gibt es auch Sachen, denen Du hinterher trauerst, weil Du jetzt einfach eine andere Rolle hast? Und das Du bist ja auch son bisschen reingewachsen, glaub ich, ne. Das entwickelt sich dann so und manchmal entscheidet man sich ja auch gar nicht so bewusst dafür, will ich das jetzt machen oder nicht. Genau.\n\nGenau, was, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, also son bisschen vermissen tu ich ab und an mal tatsächlich einfach das reine Coden, also wirklich einfach Softwareentwicklung betreiben. Mhm. Cool fand ich jetzt aber so in dem Wandel einfach auch mal die Möglichkeit zu haben, mal jetzt eine neue Technologie zu nehmen, die KI beispielsweise, ne. Was denn sonst irgendwie ist man halt als normaler Mitarbeiter, sag ich mal, dann doch abhängig davon, was die Firma entscheidet, ne, worauf die 'n Schwerpunkt legen und das kann ich jetzt halt mitgestalten, ne. Also ich kann solche Sachen halt mit vorantreiben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Was\n\nSpeaker 2: dann eher nicht so mein Favorit ist, ist halt die zunehmende Anzahl an Meetings, die man dann halt einfach bewältigen muss. Ja, aber es gehört halt dazu, ne. Und ist halt, man muss sich dann auch irgendwann eingestehen, dass man jetzt in meinem Fall von der Softwareentwicklung einfach 'n Schritt zurücktritt, weil man dann oftmals auch im Weg steht, ne. Tatsächlich hab ich das gemerkt. Also wenn ich mir rausgenommen hab, ich bau jetzt an dem Feature mit, am Ende des Tages haben dann die Kollegen halt drauf gewartet, dass ich fertig werde.\n\nUnd das Ende vom Lied war dann, ja okay, dann okay, mach Du's bitte fertig, ne, weil ich komm nicht dazu. Und das dann sich einzugestehen, dass man dann wirklich auf der Entwicklungsseite mehr im Weg steht, also geh ich lieber, weiß nicht, mach was anderes, was dein Zielführender ist und das Team mehr voranbringt, das muss man dann irgendwie auch erst mal verinnerlichen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gibt es eine Aufgabe, ein Teilgebiet, das dazugekommen ist, auf das Du eigentlich so überhaupt gar keine Lust hast und mehr son notwendiges Übel ist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee. Also mittlerweile hab ich mich da mit allen Sachen arrangiert. Also wie gesagt, so mehr in dieses auch mit den externen Partnern da mehr einzugehen, das war am Anfang 'n bisschen, ja, nicht so mein Hauptziel, ne oder das, was mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat, aber mittlerweile bin ich da auch super angekommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie lernt man das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, 'n Stück weit muss man dann die Pille einfach schlucken, ne. Also manches kann man jetzt nicht groß lernen. Man muss einfach akzeptieren, dass man dass das dazugehört. Ja, und dann halt gucken, dass man sich da einbringt und das nicht einfach links liegen lässt und versucht wegzuignorieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und wie hast Du so neue Aufgaben gelernt? Also ich mein, grade das Thema Leute einstellen, find ich, ist ja was ganz anderes als Sofa entwickeln. Das ist ja auch nicht einfach. Wie wie hast Du dich da so\n\nSpeaker 0: Und den Druck noch mal gleich zu erhöhen, das sind ja auch sehr, sehr teure Fehler, die man da machen kann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja, boah, gute Frage. Also letztlich einfach die, sagen wir, Stellenausschreibung gemacht und dann mit den Leuten sich zusammengesetzt in einen Call, dann die Erstgespräche geführt. Und dann hat man schon gemerkt, okay, passt es menschlich, passt es fachlich irgendwo? Und dann grade bei den Ersten war's wirklich auch dann 'n Sprung ins kalte Wasser.\n\nOkay, dann dann nimmt man den halt mal mit, weil menschlich hat's gepasst, fachlich auf den ersten Eindruck auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Wie sieht euer Hiring Prozess da aus? Also ihr macht offensichtlich 'n Erstgespräch, mal so zu gucken, okay, passt der hier zu uns, ja? Macht ihr Einstellungstests, macht ihr Probearbeiten? Wie prüft ihr das Fachliche ab?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir machen den Erstcall, also je nachdem, ne, über welche Plattform, über welches System letztlich jetzt die Bewerbungen reinkommen. Wir haben da lange Zeit einfach Stellenausschreibung gemacht und da hat man natürlich dann viel, was man vorfiltert, ne, wo man einfach nur Lebensläufe liest und dann ablehnt oder weitergeht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das machst Du alles?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, da hatten wir dann tatsächlich auch Mitarbeiter, die dann im people culture mäßig die die Eingänge vorher gesichtet haben. Und jetzt mittlerweile machen wir's aber so, dass wir das wesentlich zielgerichteter machen, beispielsweise über ein Staffo, ne, wo wir dann auch aktiv Leute anschreiben können und das vom Kreis der Bewerber schon sehr viel interessanter ist als quasi in den Wald geschossen. Ja. Und dann machen wir das Erstgespräch, das mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead. Und wenn das passt, also da klopfen wir son paar fachliche Themen ab, dann auch schon mal das erste Gefühl auf der menschlichen Ebene.\n\nUnd wenn das passt, dann letztlich schon mit dem mit dem Team, mit dem der oder diejenige dann zukünftig arbeiten könnte, ne, dass wir die direkt reinholen, was uns an der Stelle wichtig ist, dass das Team mit der Person konform ist, weil die halt ja täglich zusammenarbeiten müssen, ne. Und wenn das passt, dann machen wir 'n Termin bei uns in Würzburg vor Ort, wo dann auch mal der die Bewerber Bewerberin zu den anderen Leuten reingeschmissen wird, wenn man mit Marketing spricht, man mit Support spricht, mit unseren Key Account dort spricht, einfach zu gucken, ob das passt. Und wenn dann quasi 3 grüne Häkchen da sind, dann können wir dann in die Einstellung gehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, da ist jetzt aber tatsächlich kein kein inhaltlicher Check dabei im Sinne von Probearbeiten, Testaufgabe, irgendwas machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee. Chris. Chris. Ja. Da haben wir uns aktiv dagegen entschieden, weil wir gesagt haben, klar, jetzt kann man da irgendwie 'nem Entwickler eine Dreiviertelstunde wie Schulter gucken, wie er die zehnte To do Listen App baut.\n\nUnd das ist aber unserer Meinung nach einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß, jetzt auch mit KI. Sind ja so rudimentäre Sachen. Also man weiß ja auch nicht, sitzt derjenige jetzt quasi an seinem Rechner und hat nebendran irgendwie 'n KI Agent mitlaufen und der schreibt es einfach nur ab? Oder ja, es ist halt so oberflächlich, so superoberflächlich, dass zu sagen, die Probezeit ist eigentlich das richtige Mittel, zu sagen, der hat Zeit, ins System zu kommen, der hat Zeit, sich im Team zu bewerben. Und wenn das halt nicht passt, muss man halt so ehrlich sein und sagen, okay, es geht halt nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr macht für eure Entwickler Probeaufgaben, Gehalt, gell?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir machen so Probeaufgaben vor Ort. Das und dann kriegen sie halt 'n Rechner von uns. Das heißt, da kann man son bisschen voraussehen, dass sie das jetzt nicht nutzen, KI. Und das sind dann aber auch keine keine To do Liste. Ist eher so, schreibt man eine Funktion, die das uns macht.\n\nJa, ja. Also im kleinen Rahmen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und Du\n\nSpeaker 1: hast Du hast ja, also Du hast von wir gesprochen, als Du gesagt hast, wir haben uns dafür entscheiden, dass ihr so Aufgaben nicht macht. Wer also wer ist dieses wir?\n\nSpeaker 0: Wer bist Du und wenn ja, wie viel? Das sind nicht\n\nSpeaker 2: nur meine andere Persönlichkeiten. Nee, also das tatsächlich im Gründerkreis haben wir gesagt, wir machen ja diese diese Tests nicht. Und dann letztlich auch mit meinem Team zusammen, wo wir halt einfach viel zusammen strukturieren, was da so was angeht. Weil das ist einfach nicht Okay. Nicht zielführend.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und Du hast, es gibt einen Teamlead, der\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber mein Teamlead Development quasi, ne, der dann quasi\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: 'n Stück weit von mir die die Arbeit abnimmt, sich da das Team zu kümmern, alles, was da halt mit dazugehört. Interessant.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, das das heißt, diese Prozesse, also das find ich halt interessant, wie kommt man von einem, okay, ich hab das, ich hab noch nie eine Person eingestellt zu so Prozessen, die so funktionieren? Also es war wahrscheinlich alles, lern über Doing, iterativ und hast dich viel abgesprochen mit Seit wann hast Du dein Teamleat? Wie lange arbeitest Du mit dem zusammen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich hab\n\nSpeaker 2: jetzt fünfjähriges Jubiläum gehabt jetzt am Wochenende. Und als Teamlead, das muss ich überlegen, jetzt sag ich nichts Falsches sagen, weil's bestimmt anhört dann irgendwann. Also so 2, zweieinhalb Jahre.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weiß ja nicht, wann wir das veröffentlichen. Das kann ja auch dauern.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, okay. Nee, aber also wie man da hinkommt, ist tatsächlich iterativ, ne. Also es ist ja dann letztlich wie irgendwie eine Softwareentwicklung, muss man sagt, man bringt das Feature relativ zügig raus und dann hinterfragt man das ständig, ne und schraubt daran rum. Und das machen wir eigentlich gesamtheitlich in Fahrern, dass wir nie Sachen für Gesetze achten und die so stehen lassen, sondern immer sagen, okay, wie können wir's eigentlich besser machen? Zielführend für die Firma, aber auch für die Mitarbeiter.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie bringt dir da Ideen von Mitarbeitern ein? Also wenn jetzt 'n Entwickler kommt und sagt, hey, ich find den Bewerbungsprozess doof. Macht der das informell, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also da ist viel einfach direktes Reden, einfach mal jemand kotzt sich aus, sagt, irgendwas passt grade nicht und dann Okay. Muss man sich natürlich angucken. Ist ja nicht immer, weil's ein Netz ankotzt Ja. Kotzt das alle an. Aber wir machen das eigentlich sehr direkt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Speaking of Ideen einbringen, wie macht ihr bei Fahren so eure strategische Planung? Setzt ihr euch da im Gründerteam einmal im Jahr zusammen und schreibt den Fünfjahresplan und dann geht ihr einmal damit zurück in die Firma und gut ist? Oder wie sieht der Prozess aus?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ja, letztlich setzen wir uns im Gründerkreis zusammen. Ist jetzt kein Fünfjahresplan, ne, aber wir nehmen natürlich die Punkte aus dem Team mit, schauen, was ist da halt wichtig. Natürlich auch mit Blick auf unsere Zahlen. Und dann schauen wir einfach, wo wir den Schwerpunkt legen, ne. Und dann sagen wir, okay, wir wollen eigentlich diese Umsatzzahlen, diese Abozahlen erreichen, weil's einfach wichtig ist.\n\nAuf der Kostenseite wollen wir eine bestimmte Zahl nicht überschreiten. Und wenn wir dann diese groben Metriken haben, sag ich mal, auf der obersten Ebene, dann gehen wir aber tatsächlich hin mit dem Team und schauen, wie wir das dann im Detail erreichen. Also das gehen wir jetzt nicht im Klein Klein vor.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie oft macht ihr das? Und habt ihr da 'n etablierten Prozess für oder ist das mehr son informelles Ding?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, das ist mittlerweile eigentlich schon recht Also offiziell wär's vielleicht das Falschsport, das ist sone Mischung. Wir machen das einmal im Groben und dann schauen wir aber regelmäßig drauf, in welche Richtung das geht, ne, damit wir auch nachjustieren können. Weil einfach das dann genial laufen zu lassen und am Ende des Jahres zu gucken, ist das jetzt so gekommen, wie's kommen sollte, ist es meistens nicht. Deswegen muss man halt einfach rechtzeitig gegensteuern können.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und empfindest Du's meistens als was Positives oder auch manchmal hinderlich? Das Ihr seid ja 3 oder 4 Kunde, ich weiß grad nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive, ne. Waren mal 5, aber sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive. Und\n\nSpeaker 1: findest Du's, genau, eigentlich die Frage, wie Ich muss kurz überlegen, wie ich die Frage von mir Also findest Du's gut oder manchmal auch hinterlich, dass ihr 4 Mitgründer seid? Weil es ist ja manchmal auch schwer, alle in in Einklang zu bringen oder? Alle von derselben Idee zu überzeugen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich find's gut tatsächlich, weil dadurch, dass wir dadurch haben wir halt sehr unterschiedliche Sichtweisen, ne. Jeder hat so sein sein Steckenpferd und seine Prioritäten. Und das verhindert halt, dass mal 1 blind mehr oder weniger, ne, in eine Richtung läuft und aber nicht alle Aspekte betrachtet. Und dadurch, dass wir halt auch so divers aufgestellt sind, können wir halt alle Aspekte aus allen Bereichen der Firma gut einbringen und haben die halt auch relativ gleichgewichtet dann in den Gesprächen,\n\nSpeaker 1: ne. Ja, und dadurch kommt wahrscheinlich auch selten zustande, dass 1 sagt, also dass man so komplett konträre Meinung hat, weil jeder sein Fachgebiet hat und dann kommt das so zusammen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und was und das halt verhindert, ist halt beispielsweise, dass jetzt rein, ich sag mal, BWL getrieben, jemand sagt, okay, wir müssen jetzt 'n großes neues Feature machen oder wir gehen jetzt einfach in 'n neues Land. Und das ist aber technisch unmöglich zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt, ne. Und das haben wir so halt nicht, solche Situationen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gar nicht. Also wahrscheinlich schon, aber ihr könnt sie relativ gut lösen dann wahrscheinlich, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also ich mein, wir sind tatsächlich auch mal in 'n anderes Land gegangen. Mhm. Und haben das dann auch wieder sein lassen, aber gemerkt haben, es funktioniert nicht, ne. Aber es fällt wahrscheinlich aber früher auf, als wenn man das jetzt so nicht macht,\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, okay, das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: smart. Mir hat mal jemand gesagt, als CTO ist das so deine Aufgabe, dich eigentlich überflüssig zu machen und mit der Zeit, die dabei frei wird, dir ständig neue Aufgaben zu suchen, dass Du nicht überflüssig wirst. Würdest würdest Du das unterschreiben?\n\nSpeaker 2: 'N Stück weit, ja, ja. Also ich hab's ja vorhin schon mal gesagt, ne, das das Tolle ist, dadurch, dass man in der Rolle dann wächst und irgendwann dann auch mehr Leute hat, auf die man, die einen ja mittragen, kann man sich halt neue Themen kümmern, ne, wie jetzt das KI Thema. Und das das macht schon Spaß an der Stelle, also ja 'n Stück weit kann man dem zustimmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: In welchem Teil würdest Du nicht zustimmen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, sich gänzlich obsolet machen, würd ich jetzt nicht sagen. Denk, das ist auch schwierig, weil dann schnell Sachen ausm Ruder laufen, ne. Also wenn man sich nicht mehr gewisse Themen kümmert, ne. Weil irgendwo muss man ja dann doch auf alles drauf schauen und wenn das nicht passiert, dann hast man halt irgendwo kleine Teams, kleine Grüppchen, die dann immer nur für sich denken und das dann nicht gesamtheilig betrachten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Obwohl Du ja wahrscheinlich schon Aufgaben abgegeben hast an den Teamlead oder so, die Du jetzt nicht mehr machst, die Du wahrscheinlich eine Zeit lang mal selber gemacht hast, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Also das ist jetzt sowohl, ich sag mal, auch von der Produktseite ausgesprochen, dass man sich da halt darum kümmert, was machen wir jetzt für Neuerungen, ne, den Endkunden besser durch 'n Checker zu bringen oder dem Partner das Leben leichter zu machen. Das muss man sich dann halt nicht mehr selbst alles ausdenken. Aber halt auch in den technischen Konzepte, wie gestaltet man die Infrastruktur, ne? Dafür hat man einfach Leute, die es können, ja.\n\nIch mein, ich bin ja auch Quereinsteiger, ich hab das ja nicht gelernt und Fahren ist eigentlich mein erstes großes Projekt gewesen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Und von daher muss man, musst ich einfach immer auf andere Leute Expertise aufbauen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ich hatt auf LinkedIn, hattest Du nicht auch mal eine App Agentur gegründet?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ist falsch gewesen? Jetzt kommt jetzt\n\nSpeaker 0: kommt's raus.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das waren halt so Superpress Seiten, ne. Also das ist jetzt nicht, wo ich sag, da hab ich jetzt ultimativ Wissen auf der Infrastrukturseite aufgebaut oder so, Skalierungsthemen bearbeitet, sondern das war wirklich, da hab ich jemand 'n Shop, okay. Setz ich ja auf und konfiguriert er den. Verstehe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Okay. Wir haben ziemlich viele Themenbereiche hier schon angerissen. Meine Lieblingsfrage daher zum Schluss, wenn Gerald nicht noch eine Frage hat. Gerald, hast Du noch eine Frage?\n\nSpeaker 1: Schade nicht, vielleicht kommt noch eine.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Dann meine Frage an Fabian. Welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt? Womit hast Du fest gerechnet und gedacht, oh, da wollt ich unbedingt drüber reden und keiner hat mich danach gefragt und jetzt hatt ich gar keine Chance, über XYZ zu sprechen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gute Frage. Ich glaub, da war jetzt nichts dabei. Bin son bisschen drauf eingestellt, ne, sondern mein meine meinen Lebenslauf darzulegen, mich nackig zu machen, aber es ist auch okay, wenn wir das nicht tun. Nee, und so inhaltlich fachlich jetzt zu fahren, nee, ich denk, wir haben alles grob angerissen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Garalt, ist dir noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, es hab also ich hab mich grad gefallen, ob wir dich noch nackig machen wollen, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist ja ist ja kein Videopodcast hier. Von daher, alles alles kein Problem. Wunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber was, okay, aber wenn Du das schon so sagst, was was wär denn die Frage aus deinem Lebenslauf gewesen, die dich interessiert hätte?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Ja, Du musst jetzt sone harte Imposter Syndrom Frage stellen oder so was. Schwierig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das ist schwierig, weil ich versuch's dir auch grad besser zu familieren, ohne dass sie zu hart ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, also ich mein, vielleicht die Herausforderung, die ich jetzt ja auch hatte, wie gesagt, ich bin ja Quereinsteiger, ne, Fahren war jetzt so das das erste große Projekt, was vielleicht viele andere in in meiner Situation entweder halt schon auf langjährige Berufserfahrung einfach als Softwareentwickler zurückgreifen können oder halt irgendwie anderweitig schon, keine Ahnung, mal 'n Unternehmen mit aufgebaut haben oder nicht, ne. Und das das hatte ich jetzt nicht, auch ja meine Mitgründer nicht. Also wir mussten das ja immer alles irgendwie lernen. Und da war halt einfach, ich hab's davon schon mal gesagt, ne, dann einfach Expertise von außen zulassen. Ne, das war etwas, was ich gemerkt hab, was mir sehr geholfen hat.\n\nSei es jetzt durch, weiß nicht, Business Angels oder gute Bekannte, die man dann eingebunden hat, die da Hilfestellung geleistet haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hattest Du auch Business Angels, die dir bei der technischen Seite geholfen haben und Tipps gegeben haben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, cool, ja. Und ja, was ich auch so gemerkt hab, stellenweise hab ich versuch's alles sehr teamdörfern zu machen. Und an der einen oder anderen Stelle muss man dann aber auch eine Entscheidung treffen und die dann halt auch durchziehen, ne. Also beispielsweise, weißt Du, rückblickend das mit Go würd ich jetzt nicht noch mal machen. Ja.\n\nNe, das war rückblickend dann schon 'n Schritt in die falsche Richtung. Aber es ist trotzdem wichtig, das Team mitzunehmen, ne. Also das, ich will nicht mehr sagen, dass man die quasi dann außen vorlässt und alles dann 'nem stillen Kämmerchen ausmacht. Aber so diesen Mittelweg zu finden, das ist manchmal gar nicht so einfach.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und im Nachhinein ist man ja auch immer schlauer. Also man muss sich ja dann auch ehrlich fragen, aber selbst wenn jetzt Go vielleicht nicht die richtige Richtung war, 'n Fehler war's ja eigentlich nur, wenn Du schon relativ früh gewusst hättest, dass es schiefläuft und es trotzdem das Team weitermachen lässt so, ne. Wenn Zeit einfach nix wird, ist ja okay, aber dafür sind ja diese Versuche auch irgendwie da. Ja. Ja, also\n\nSpeaker 2: Und mein, da hat's auch sehr viel geholfen, dass das Team halt auch denn selbst zu reflektiert ist und war und entsprechend dann auch vom Team auch oftmals Impulse kamen, ne, in Sachen, okay, das läuft in die falsche Richtung, lass doch mal direkt drüber sprechen. Also da bin ich auch echt happy.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du eben schon gesagt, Du Du hast das dir so teilweise selber beigebracht, hast teilweise Business Angels gehabt, aber es war insgesamt son son Lernprozess. Würdest Du noch mal gründen, wenn jetzt Fahren in, weiß nicht, 10 Jahren entweder zu ist oder gut verkauft wurde oder so gut läuft, dass es dich nicht mehr braucht oder keine Ahnung was. Und Du sagst, okay, was mach ich jetzt als Nächstes? So, was das Fahren wir als nächstes großes Ding? Würdest Du würdest Du dir den ganzen Spaß noch mal geben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es kommt auf die Idee an. Also ich würd wahrscheinlich nicht noch mal in son wirklich tiefes kaltes Wasser springen, wie's halt mit Fahren damals war, wo ja wir ja eigentlich 0 Expertise hatten im Automotivebereich, ne, was so das Handling von Fahrzeugen und so was angeht. Das wahrscheinlich eher nicht mehr. Aber wenn's dann eher im Bereich ist, in dem ich dann entsprechendes Basiswissen schon hab und Grundwissen, dann könnt ich mir das schon vorstellen, ne. Ja.\n\nAlso so letztlich muss ich das dann auch mit meiner Familien Einklang bringen, ne. Ich bin da so der der der Opi im Gründerkreis, sag ich mal, ne. Und entsprechend ist das auch, was halt bei mir relativ weit oben hängt von Wieso\n\nSpeaker 1: bist Du der Opi Gründer bist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, ich bin ja jetzt 38, ne und dann meine Mitgründer, die waren ja dann quasi alle so ganz kurz nur Arbeitserfahrung und dann an die Uni. Und ich war ja dann letztlich schon 12 Jahre quasi Schulabschluss und dann bis zur Uni sind bei mir 12 Jahre dazwischen, an denen ich halt einfach schon andere Sachen gemacht hab, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, und das ist auch der Lebensläufe, über den Du sprechen wolltest. Was hast 'n da gemacht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein, jetzt verrat ich's nicht ganz.\n\nSpeaker 0: 2 Minuten Frau Schluss fällt mir auch so ein. Da ist so da ist son Zehnjahres Gap in deinem, wie ich das alles erlebt kann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich mein, die steht auch auf LinkedIn, ne. Ich mein, ich war dann halt bei der Bundeswehr und war da Militärpolizist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das hab ich übersehen. Interessant. Oh man, das volle spannende Teil. Okay, wie das\n\nSpeaker 2: 12 Jahresspanne. Nee. Also mein, letztlich war ich ja immer affin, ne, was so Computer angeht. Ja. Bei mir war's halt eher so die Gamingrichtung und dann war halt Schule zu Ende.\n\nUnd da hab ich mir halt gedacht, okay, entweder Software, das hatt ich damals aber komischerweise noch nicht so aufm Schirm. Und dann war ich bei der Bundeswehr, hab mich da freiwillig gemeldet. Dann zügig gemerkt, dass das nicht das ist, was ich mein Leben lang machen möchte. Mhm. Und dann halt während der Dienstzeit mich wieder auf meine eigentlichen, auf mein eigentliches Faible berufen und dann mich damit schon mal beschäftigt, ne.\n\nUnd dann halt auch eben über das Studium angehangen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Alle Wege führen nach Rom. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Wie lang warst Du bei der Bundeswehr dann?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also 10 Jahre aktiv und dann 2 Jahre waren ja quasi dann schon diese Übergangsphase, in denen ich dann studiert hab schon.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, okay. Da hast Du in Würzburg studiert, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und warum ist kein Gaming geworden?\n\nSpeaker 0: Fragt der Gamingentwickler.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, gute Frage. Wahrscheinlich weil Web einfach leichter zugänglich war damals.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na gut, man kann ja auch mit Webtechnologien Spiele bauen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Vielleicht das nächste Mal dann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ich glaub, also, Gareth, ne, ich glaub tatsächlich, dass so so Gaming in Deutschland manchmal einfach son schwieriges Standbein hat, weil Du halt nicht so die die paar großen Firmen irgendwie kennst, wo Du dich bewerben solltest. Also es gibt in Deutschland 'n bisschen Nintendo und es gibt irgendwie CryyTech und so, hast Du alles nicht gesehen, die paar großen. Klar. Aber also ohne jetzt hier Lotum zu sehr in die Pfanne hauen zu wollen, aber ich glaub, auch die Allerwenigsten da draußen haben Lotum auf dem Schirm, wenn sie irgendwie Gaming machen wollen. So, das ist halt immer son bisschen, Ja.\n\nMuss man mal nachschauen. Also wenn ihr da draußen Gaming machen wollt, schreibt gar nicht eine E-Mail.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vor allem, wenn man das mit Wetterschurken macht. Ja. Wunderbar. Ja, spannend. Sehr spannend.\n\nOkay,\n\nSpeaker 0: okay, dann sind wir damit durch. Danke dir, Fabian, für das Gespräch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke, dass ich hier ran durfte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Danke, Garelt für die Zeit. Remote extra hier noch mal zugeschaltet ins Studio.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich wollte unbedingt dabei sein. Ich fand's 'n sehr gutes Gespräch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Vielen Dank. Wunderbar. Dann hoffen wir, es hat euch da draußen auch gefallen. Wenn ihr Feedback, Rückfragen oder Ähnliches habt, dann am besten in unseren Discord kommen und gerad fragen, wie man Spiele mit Webtechnologien umsetzt. Ansonsten gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder einfach einen Kommentar auf den gängigen Social Media Kanälen hinterlassen.\n\nWir lesen das in der Regel, sag ich mal, zeitnah mit. Wunderbar. Anton, tschau tschau, bis zum nächsten Mal. Bis bald. Macht's gut.",[37683,37692,37695,37708,37713,37718,37723,37728,37735,37740,37745,37752,37759,37766,37779,37786,37795,37808,37813,37818,37826,37837,37849,37854,37867,37880,37893,37906,37919,37926,37939,37944,37948,37952,37959,37963,37973,37981,37994,38003,38012,38018,38031,38035,38045,38048,38060,38065,38074,38078,38082,38087,38096,38104,38108,38120,38127,38138,38145,38149,38160,38172,38183,38193,38202,38214,38222,38227,38232,38245,38257,38261,38270,38273,38276,38281,38285,38291,38294,38302,38306,38313,38324,38328,38341,38345,38351,38355,38359,38370,38382,38393,38406,38411,38424,38437,38443,38450,38454,38457,38468,38477,38489,38501,38509,38517,38528,38538,38544,38547,38554,38562,38568,38579,38589,38602,38615,38622,38634,38642,38648,38659,38663,38670,38680,38685,38693,38703,38716,38727,38736,38749,38759,38771,38775,38779,38783,38787,38795,38807,38820,38826,38838,38843,38851,38855,38860,38870,38874,38877,38888,38891,38898,38901,38906,38917,38930,38938,38951,38959,38963,38976,38986,38990,38995,39001,39006,39011,39018,39030,39037,39046,39058,39069,39080,39086,39090,39098,39108,39121,39126,39129,39133,39145,39151,39159,39166,39172,39179,39190,39199,39208,39215,39219,39223,39227,39232,39243,39248,39257,39261,39269,39275,39281,39289,39295,39299,39311,39319,39325,39332,39338,39349,39362,39375,39379,39385,39396,39400,39404,39413,39426,39434,39444,39448,39452,39458,39468,39479,39485,39493,39505,39514,39523,39527,39531,39537,39541,39545,39557,39568,39572,39583,39587,39599,39605,39609,39616,39620,39630,39640,39644,39655,39659,39670,39676,39680,39691,39699,39703,39711,39724,39728,39740,39746,39750,39756,39762,39775,39779,39783,39786,39791,39799,39803,39811,39817,39829,39837,39849,39858,39870,39878,39884,39894,39900,39907,39915,39925,39930,39939,39945,39955,39959,39966,39974,39978,39988,39993,40005,40009,40012,40017,40021,40028,40032,40041,40051,40055,40064,40075,40080,40084,40091,40095,40100,40104,40117,40121,40125,40137,40147,40158,40164,40176,40187,40195,40199,40205,40211,40215,40221,40227,40236,40246,40257,40261,40266,40271,40275,40280,40283,40287,40291,40297,40301,40305,40316,40322,40332,40335,40341,40345,40351,40357,40368],{"sentences":37684,"speaker":149,"num_words":37691,"start":146,"end":270},[37685,37687,37689],{"text":37686,"start":146,"end":215},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen CTO Special hier in der Programmierer, heute mit 1 Besonderheit.",{"text":37688,"start":215,"end":261},"Und zwar nicht nur, dass der Garrit mit mir hier am Start ist.",{"text":37690,"start":261,"end":270},"Hi, Garrit.",32,{"sentences":37693,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":274,"end":275},[37694],{"text":277,"start":274,"end":275},{"sentences":37696,"speaker":149,"num_words":37707,"start":280,"end":587},[37697,37699,37701,37703,37705],{"text":37698,"start":280,"end":396},"Sondern dass wir einen Gast haben, der schon mal bei uns war und es aber irgendwie nie zu euch nach draußen zu den Hörerinnen und Hörern geschafft hat aus Gründen, die ich nicht nachvollziehen konnte.",{"text":37700,"start":396,"end":486},"Wir haben versucht, das irgendwie im Archiv wiederzufinden, die Folge, die da mal aufgenommen wurde, und haben dann einfach beschlossen, wir nehmen sie noch mal auf.",{"text":37702,"start":489,"end":553},"Wir haben heute im im Gast zum Studio, zu im Studio zu Gast, oh mein Gott, das ist noch sehr früh.",{"text":37704,"start":557,"end":562},"Fabian Hagen.",{"text":37706,"start":562,"end":587},"Hallo Fabian, schön, dass Du da bist.",91,{"sentences":37709,"speaker":593,"num_words":37712,"start":590,"end":601},[37710],{"text":37711,"start":590,"end":601},"Ich grüße euch.",3,{"sentences":37714,"speaker":149,"num_words":37717,"start":604,"end":628},[37715],{"text":37716,"start":604,"end":628},"Fabian, Du bist CTO und Mitgründer bei Fahren.",8,{"sentences":37719,"speaker":593,"num_words":37722,"start":632,"end":645},[37720],{"text":37721,"start":632,"end":645},"Das ist richtig, ja.",4,{"sentences":37724,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":648,"end":717},[37725],{"text":37726,"start":648,"end":717},"Und so wie ich das verstanden hab in der Biografie, habt ihr Fahren direkt in Schrägstrich nach der Uni Zeit gegründet.",21,{"sentences":37729,"speaker":593,"num_words":37734,"start":722,"end":836},[37730,37732],{"text":37731,"start":722,"end":760},"Genau, wir haben direkt in der Uni angefangen als Projektarbeit im sechsten Semester.",{"text":37733,"start":760,"end":836},"Und das hat dann so gut funktioniert, dass wir gesagt haben, wir ziehen das komplett durch und gehen direkt in die Gründung und betreiben das seitdem jetzt.",40,{"sentences":37736,"speaker":149,"num_words":37739,"start":836,"end":891},[37737],{"text":37738,"start":836,"end":891},"Und unabhängig von der vielleicht etwas esoterischen Schreibweise, hat Fahren durchaus was mit Autofahren zu tun?",16,{"sentences":37741,"speaker":593,"num_words":37744,"start":895,"end":965},[37742],{"text":37743,"start":895,"end":965},"Ja, da tatsächlich ist das die Anlehnung son bisschen daran, ne, da einfach eine gewisse Nähe und Klarheit dann auch zu schaffen.",22,{"sentences":37746,"speaker":149,"num_words":37751,"start":968,"end":1058},[37747,37749],{"text":37748,"start":968,"end":1022},"Und für alle da draußen, die das jetzt grade versuchen zu googeln, fahren schreibt man mit Doppel-a.",{"text":37750,"start":1026,"end":1058},"Und ohne Weil das h schon ausverkauft war oder was?",27,{"sentences":37753,"speaker":593,"num_words":37758,"start":1058,"end":1094},[37754,37756],{"text":37755,"start":1058,"end":1083},"Ja, das war uns dann doch zu plump.",{"text":37757,"start":1088,"end":1094},"Ah, okay.",10,{"sentences":37760,"speaker":149,"num_words":37765,"start":1098,"end":1158},[37761,37763],{"text":37762,"start":1098,"end":1112},"Genau, also FAAREN fahren.",{"text":37764,"start":1112,"end":1158},"Vielleicht kannst Du einmal ganz kurz beschreiben, was er eigentlich macht und dann sprechen wir",19,{"sentences":37767,"speaker":593,"num_words":37778,"start":1162,"end":1365},[37768,37770,37772,37774,37776],{"text":37769,"start":1162,"end":1176},"darüber, wie er das gemacht hat.",{"text":37771,"start":1176,"end":1185},"Ja, sehr gerne.",{"text":37773,"start":1185,"end":1216},"Also im Kern sind wir einen Marktplatz für Auto Abo.",{"text":37775,"start":1216,"end":1286},"Also Auto Abo für diejenigen, die jetzt noch nicht so geläufig ist, ist quasi eine Alternative zu Leasing, Finanzierung, Kauf und Kurzzeitmiete.",{"text":37777,"start":1290,"end":1365},"Also sprich, wir reden hier auch über Laufzeiten von mindestens einem Monat, aber bis hin zu wirklich 36 Monate, also als starke Alternative zu Leasing.",66,{"sentences":37780,"speaker":593,"num_words":37785,"start":1368,"end":1664},[37781,37783],{"text":37782,"start":1368,"end":1394},"Ja, und das betreiben wir halt, wie schon gesagt, als Marktplatz.",{"text":37784,"start":1397,"end":1664},"Das heißt, wir bringen auf der einen Seite unsere Händler, also unsere Partner, was dann so der normale kleine Schotterplatz Autohändler sein kann, aber auch OEM Hersteller direkt oder auch Banken zusammen mit dem Endkunden auf der anderen Seite, das dann der Single ist, der einfach gerne mal 'n sportliches Auto ausprobieren möchte oder die Familie, die irgendwie einen kleinen Muttiwellen braucht, damit in den Urlaub zu fahren, bis hin zu Geschäftskunden oder auch kleinen mittelständischen Firmen, die dann bei uns ihren Fuhrparkservice oder ihren Fuhrpark haben.",98,{"sentences":37787,"speaker":149,"num_words":37794,"start":1667,"end":1815},[37788,37790,37792],{"text":37789,"start":1667,"end":1759},"Und Automiete, also Langzeitmiete, nicht jetzt so SIX oder so was, ne, ist ja ein Modell, was, glaub ich, in den letzten Jahren doch deutlich bekannter geworden ist.",{"text":37791,"start":1759,"end":1782},"Aber ihr betreibt das Ganze ja schon länger.",{"text":37793,"start":1786,"end":1815},"So zur zeitlichen Einordnung, wann seid ihr mit Fahren gestartet?",46,{"sentences":37796,"speaker":593,"num_words":37807,"start":1818,"end":1997},[37797,37799,37801,37803,37805],{"text":37798,"start":1818,"end":1849},"Also wir haben jetzt im September siebenjähriges Jubiläum gefeiert, ne.",{"text":37800,"start":1849,"end":1880},"Das ganze Projekt läuft jetzt schon fast 8 Jahre, ne.",{"text":37802,"start":1880,"end":1903},"Wie gesagt, wir haben an der Uni gestartet.",{"text":37804,"start":1907,"end":1962},"Da ist auch die Idee hergekommen, weil letztlich 1 unserer Mitgründer das Ganze mal aus den USA mit aufgeschnappt hatte.",{"text":37806,"start":1966,"end":1997},"Und wir uns dann gedacht haben, wir probieren das einfach mal in Deutschland.",61,{"sentences":37809,"speaker":593,"num_words":37812,"start":2001,"end":2033},[37810],{"text":37811,"start":2001,"end":2033},"Also in Summe sind's jetzt fast 8 Jahre, in denen wir das betreiben.",13,{"sentences":37814,"speaker":149,"num_words":37817,"start":2036,"end":2076},[37815],{"text":37816,"start":2036,"end":2076},"Und damit wart ihr ja mit 1 oder die Ersten, die das hierzulande angeboten haben?",15,{"sentences":37819,"speaker":593,"num_words":37825,"start":2076,"end":2110},[37820,37822,37823],{"text":37821,"start":2076,"end":2088},"Mit die Ersten, ja.",{"text":2093,"start":2088,"end":2091},{"text":37824,"start":2095,"end":2110},"Eigentlich von Anfang an mit dabei.",11,{"sentences":37827,"speaker":128,"num_words":37836,"start":2113,"end":2318},[37828,37830,37832,37834],{"text":37829,"start":2113,"end":2151},"Aber es war schon, hat das ein Projekt, was ihr für die Uni gemacht habt erst?",{"text":37831,"start":2151,"end":2177},"Also es war irgendwie eine Aufgabe oder auch eine Abgabe.",{"text":37833,"start":2181,"end":2246},"Und dann habt ihr danach einfach gedacht, okay, ihr wolltet rauskriegen Oder wo stand 'n das Projekt nach der nach diesem nach der Abgabe?",{"text":37835,"start":2246,"end":2318},"War es dann schon so, okay, es läuft schon, ne, ihr könnt schon 'n Kunden drauf lassen oder war's dann noch sehr viel mehr",74,{"sentences":37838,"speaker":593,"num_words":37848,"start":2321,"end":2524},[37839,37841,37843,37845,37846],{"text":37840,"start":2321,"end":2347},"Nee, wir hatten's denn Glück zu machen.",{"text":37842,"start":2347,"end":2368},"Wir hatten tatsächlich die ersten Buchungen dann.",{"text":37844,"start":2368,"end":2447},"Also kurz zur Einordnung, wir sind alle quasi an der THWS in Würzburg gewesen, haben dort alle E-Commerce studiert, der gesamte Gründerkreis im selben Jahrgang.",{"text":2453,"start":2451,"end":2452},{"text":37847,"start":2455,"end":2524},"Und im fünften Semester ist man dann ja quasi draußen in der Wirtschaft, sag ich mal, irgendwann in der Firma, macht's sein Praxissemester.",63,{"sentences":37850,"speaker":149,"num_words":37853,"start":2528,"end":2549},[37851],{"text":37852,"start":2528,"end":2549},"Also wir reden von 'nem Bachelorstudiengang, ne?",7,{"sentences":37855,"speaker":593,"num_words":37866,"start":2549,"end":2809},[37856,37858,37860,37862,37864],{"text":37857,"start":2549,"end":2557},"Genau, Bachelorstudiengang.",{"text":37859,"start":2561,"end":2616},"Und im sechsten Semester musste man sich in kleinen Projektgruppen zusammenfinden und dann irgendwas im sechsten Semester auf die Beine stellen.",{"text":37861,"start":2616,"end":2688},"Ne, E-Commerce-Studiengang war da ganz praktisch, weil da halt letztlich sich alles zusammenkommt von Onlinemarketing, Programmierung, aber auch 'n bisschen BWL Part.",{"text":37863,"start":2691,"end":2750},"Und dann haben wir das da eben angefangen, hatten dann auch unser erstes Partner Autohaus in Würzburg und dann tatsächlich unsere ersten Buchungen.",{"text":37865,"start":2750,"end":2809},"Und das war dann eben der Punkt, an dem wir gesagt haben, gut, das scheint zu funktionieren, wir gehen den nächsten Schritt.",90,{"sentences":37868,"speaker":149,"num_words":37879,"start":2812,"end":3010},[37869,37871,37873,37875,37877],{"text":37870,"start":2812,"end":2871},"Jetzt fühl ich mich ehrlicherweise 'n bisschen schlecht mit meiner grottigen Bachelorarbeit, weil da ist irgendwie keine Firma draus geworden.",{"text":37872,"start":2875,"end":2906},"Aber aber es, also ich mein, ist ja cool, so.",{"text":37874,"start":2906,"end":2927},"Aber wie wie muss man sich das vorstellen?",{"text":37876,"start":2927,"end":2974},"Weil a, brauchst Du ja schon mal die richtige Gruppe an Menschen dafür, ne.",{"text":37878,"start":2974,"end":3010},"Wie Du schon gesagt hast, Du brauchst jemanden, der das 'n bisschen baut.",65,{"sentences":37881,"speaker":149,"num_words":37892,"start":3010,"end":3278},[37882,37884,37886,37888,37890],{"text":37883,"start":3010,"end":3100},"Du brauchst irgendwie jemand, der die Idee mitbringt, jemand, der vielleicht son bisschen das Betriebswirtschaftliche da irgendwie sich mehr anguckt und das Modell mal durchrechnet, ob das sich überhaupt so tragen kann.",{"text":37885,"start":3103,"end":3135},"Wie habt ihr so zueinander gefunden und wie habt ihr die Aufgaben verteilt?",{"text":37887,"start":3135,"end":3192},"Weil ich hab jetzt zwar nicht E-Commerce studiert, aber ich würde es mir eher als son sehr generalistischen Studiengang vielleicht vorstellen, ja.",{"text":37889,"start":3195,"end":3261},"Und dann ist ja gar nicht gesagt, ne, dass da überhaupt Leute drin sind, die jetzt supergerne programmieren wollen oder die supergerne irgendwie mit Buchhaltung beschäftigen.",{"text":37891,"start":3265,"end":3278},"Und wie seid ihr da zueinandergekommen?",99,{"sentences":37894,"speaker":593,"num_words":37905,"start":3282,"end":3520},[37895,37897,37899,37901,37903],{"text":37896,"start":3282,"end":3336},"Ja, lustigerweise saßen wir eigentlich schon fast ab dem ersten Semester immer zusammen, so in 1 in 1 Reihe, ne.",{"text":37898,"start":3336,"end":3353},"Hatten da dann auch schon unsere Spezialisierungen.",{"text":37900,"start":3356,"end":3424},"Also ich war schon immer der der programmieraffine Typ, hab dann da halt auch bei den entsprechenden Modulen mitgeholfen, den Leuten, die jetzt nicht programmieren konnten.",{"text":37902,"start":3427,"end":3469},"Auf der anderen Seite hatten wir dann halt unseren Mitgründer Konstantin, der halt Marketing gemacht hat.",{"text":37904,"start":3469,"end":3520},"Der hatte das vor dem Studium, war ja schon in Marketingagenturen, hat das quasi schon beruflich ausgeübt, ja.",87,{"sentences":37907,"speaker":593,"num_words":37918,"start":3520,"end":3683},[37908,37910,37912,37914,37916],{"text":37909,"start":3520,"end":3566},"Daniel, unser Geschäftsführer, ist schon immer Start upaffin gewesen, war schon immer in dem Bereich tätig.",{"text":37911,"start":3566,"end":3596},"Also Fundraising war da letztlich auch nichts Neues für ihn.",{"text":37913,"start":3600,"end":3628},"Und der Rest war dann Learning by Doing, ne.",{"text":37915,"start":3628,"end":3654},"Also ich mein, wir hatten dann noch 2 andere Mitgründer mit dabei.",{"text":37917,"start":3657,"end":3683},"Und dann waren wir in allen Bereichen eigentlich vertreten.",56,{"sentences":37920,"speaker":593,"num_words":37925,"start":3683,"end":3812},[37921,37923],{"text":37922,"start":3683,"end":3752},"Also von dem operativen Geschäft, was so financehemen angeht, People and culture, LEGäten Themen über Marketing, Produktmanagement, Development.",{"text":37924,"start":3756,"end":3812},"Also wir waren dann eigentlich so divers aufgestellt, dass wir von vornherein alle, sag mal, alle Fähigkeiten hatten, anzufangen zumindest.",38,{"sentences":37927,"speaker":149,"num_words":37938,"start":3815,"end":4002},[37928,37930,37932,37934,37936],{"text":37929,"start":3815,"end":3879},"Und für diese Studienarbeit war das Ziel, ein Produkt zu entwickeln oder ein Geschäft, weil da gehört ja viel mehr dazu, ne.",{"text":37931,"start":3879,"end":3909},"Du musst es irgendwie anmelden, Du musst es richtig aufsetzen.",{"text":37933,"start":3909,"end":3947},"Du musst brauchst echte zahlende Kunden, Du brauchst Supplier auf der anderen Seite so.",{"text":37935,"start":3947,"end":3957},"Was war die Aufgabe?",{"text":37937,"start":3957,"end":4002},"Also wolltet ihr eigentlich nur den Marktplatz bauen und das hat sich so ergeben, dass es tatsächlich funktioniert hat?",69,{"sentences":37940,"speaker":149,"num_words":37943,"start":4002,"end":4051},[37941],{"text":37942,"start":4002,"end":4051},"Oder war von Anfang an so die Idee, nee, nee, da sollen auch irgendwie, da soll Geld drüberfließen?",18,{"sentences":37945,"speaker":593,"num_words":392,"start":4056,"end":4139},[37946],{"text":37947,"start":4056,"end":4139},"Na ja, also das Ziel in dieser Projektarbeit war dann eigentlich eher so das Konzept dahinter, son maximal son proof of Konzept und der Rest hat sich dann danach ergeben.",{"sentences":37949,"speaker":149,"num_words":37853,"start":4142,"end":4162},[37950],{"text":37951,"start":4142,"end":4162},"Mit welcher Note habt ihr das abgeschlossen?",{"sentences":37953,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":4165,"end":4186},[37954,37956],{"text":37955,"start":4165,"end":4178},"Das wollt's auch grad.",{"text":37957,"start":4182,"end":4186},"Also ich",6,{"sentences":37960,"speaker":149,"num_words":37812,"start":4186,"end":4218},[37961],{"text":37962,"start":4186,"end":4218},"mein, das das kann ja nicht besser laufen, als dass es irgendwie läuft",{"sentences":37964,"speaker":593,"num_words":37943,"start":4218,"end":4270},[37965,37967,37969,37971],{"text":37966,"start":4218,"end":4223},"so, oder?",{"text":37968,"start":4223,"end":4245},"Ich glaub, das war tatsächlich dann auch eine 1.",{"text":37970,"start":4249,"end":4254},"Das Ja.",{"text":37972,"start":4257,"end":4270},"War dann ganz praktisch, ja.",{"sentences":37974,"speaker":128,"num_words":37925,"start":4272,"end":4375},[37975,37977,37979],{"text":37976,"start":4272,"end":4304},"Und das wär schon lustig gewesen, wenn das nicht so gewesen wär, ne.",{"text":37978,"start":4304,"end":4337},"Ja, nee, die Idee ist nicht so gut und die Umsetzung auch nicht.",{"text":37980,"start":4340,"end":4375},"Also so eine 3 kriegt er, aber dann Da da gibt's aber,",{"sentences":37982,"speaker":149,"num_words":37993,"start":4375,"end":4659},[37983,37985,37987,37989,37991],{"text":37984,"start":4375,"end":4470},"ich hab neulich in der Biografie gelesen, dass der Gründer von FedEx, so die ja dieses Overnightshipping erfunden haben eigentlich, ne, das Konzept auch in der Uniarbeit vorgestellt hatte.",{"text":37986,"start":4473,"end":4491},"Und das revolutioniert halt alles, ne.",{"text":37988,"start":4491,"end":4532},"So Marketing über und Vertrieb über das ganze Land und alles wird möglich und bla.",{"text":37990,"start":4536,"end":4581},"Und sein Professor hat ihm halt gesagt, so, niemals funktioniert das und der ist irgendwie durchgefallen damit.",{"text":37992,"start":4584,"end":4659},"Und dann hat er das halt irgendwie Jahre später aufgebaut und so richtig in Your Face halt irgendwie bei jeder Gelegenheit das den dann noch mal reingerieben so.",95,{"sentences":37995,"speaker":149,"num_words":37739,"start":4662,"end":4710},[37996,37997,37999,38000,38001],{"text":4255,"start":4662,"end":4663},{"text":37998,"start":4667,"end":4682},"Also kann auch anders laufen, ja.",{"text":4255,"start":4682,"end":4685},{"text":4690,"start":4688,"end":4689},{"text":38002,"start":4692,"end":4710},"Wie habt ihr euch diesem Aufbau genähert?",{"sentences":38004,"speaker":149,"num_words":38011,"start":4710,"end":4827},[38005,38007,38009],{"text":38006,"start":4710,"end":4778},"Also ich mein, heute kann man das ja sagen, ne, also es hat ja offensichtlich geklappt, es ist erfolgreich, es läuft, es wächst.",{"text":38008,"start":4778,"end":4814},"Du hast 'n 'n Team, was ihr da irgendwie in den Entwicklungen habt.",{"text":38010,"start":4814,"end":4827},"Wie viele Leute seid ihr?",41,{"sentences":38013,"speaker":593,"num_words":38017,"start":4830,"end":4880},[38014,38016],{"text":38015,"start":4830,"end":4876},"Also over all sind wir so die 40 und ungefähr ein Drittel davon ist rein Produktentwicklung.",{"text":4881,"start":4879,"end":4880},17,{"sentences":38019,"speaker":149,"num_words":38030,"start":4883,"end":5099},[38020,38022,38024,38026,38028],{"text":38021,"start":4883,"end":4909},"Das war ja quasi so vor 7 Jahren nicht nicht abzusehen so.",{"text":38023,"start":4909,"end":4954},"Da warst Du ja quasi technisch eine One Man Show, wie ich das verstanden hab.",{"text":38025,"start":4957,"end":5057},"Wie trifft man da dann Entscheidungen, wenn man so am Anfang steht und noch relativ alleine ist und so wie es ja auch klang, die anderen jetzt vielleicht nicht die besten technischen Sparringspartner waren an der Stelle, ja.",{"text":38027,"start":5060,"end":5086},"Wie entscheidet man sich da fürn Stack, für eine Toolchain?",{"text":38029,"start":5089,"end":5099},"Wie setzt man das auf?",80,{"sentences":38032,"speaker":149,"num_words":37958,"start":5099,"end":5115},[38033],{"text":38034,"start":5099,"end":5115},"Wie hast Du sich dem genährt?",{"sentences":38036,"speaker":593,"num_words":38044,"start":5119,"end":5265},[38037,38039,38041,38042],{"text":38038,"start":5119,"end":5161},"Ja, tatsächlich eher bin ich dann auf die Tools gegangen, die mir schon vertraut waren.",{"text":38040,"start":5165,"end":5220},"Also wir, unser Text Stack ist lässig PHP mit 'nem Ravelle Framework, im Frontend nutzen wir View.",{"text":5227,"start":5220,"end":5225},{"text":38043,"start":5229,"end":5265},"Und das war das, was ich halt in anderen Projekten dann auch schon mal verwendet hatte.",49,{"sentences":38046,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":5265,"end":5267},[38047],{"text":2453,"start":5265,"end":5267},{"sentences":38049,"speaker":593,"num_words":37993,"start":5267,"end":5538},[38050,38052,38054,38056,38058],{"text":38051,"start":5267,"end":5312},"Dementsprechend war ich da recht vertraut mit und dann war die Entscheidung relativ schnell klar, ne.",{"text":38053,"start":5312,"end":5370},"Wir hatten kurz überlegt, gehen wir aufn Wordpress, fangen damit an, weil's am Anfang halt deutlich schneller ans Laufen kommt.",{"text":38055,"start":5374,"end":5457},"Oder nehmen wir irgendwie 'n Shopsystem, 'n Shopware beispielsweise und haben uns dann aber aktiv dagegen entschieden, einfach mit dem Grund der Flexibilität, die irgendwann dann doch eingeschränkt ist, ne.",{"text":38057,"start":5457,"end":5493},"Klar, am Anfang tut man sich leichter, später ist man aber sehr stark eingeschränkt.",{"text":38059,"start":5493,"end":5538},"Und das hätten wir jetzt halt mit Lara Wellen in dem Fall jetzt nicht gehabt.",{"sentences":38061,"speaker":149,"num_words":38064,"start":5542,"end":5606},[38062],{"text":38063,"start":5542,"end":5606},"Weißt Du noch, wie lange Du da ungefähr dran gesessen hast, bis das so, ich sag mal, die ersten 80 Prozent fertig war?",23,{"sentences":38066,"speaker":593,"num_words":38017,"start":5610,"end":5663},[38067,38069,38071,38072,38073],{"text":38068,"start":5610,"end":5626},"Oh, jetzt muss ich ganz kurz nachrechnen.",{"text":38070,"start":5630,"end":5650},"Das war ja bestimmt einen halbes Dreivierteljahr.",{"text":4881,"start":5654,"end":5655},{"text":4255,"start":5658,"end":5659},{"text":4881,"start":5662,"end":5663},{"sentences":38075,"speaker":128,"num_words":37812,"start":5663,"end":5701},[38076],{"text":38077,"start":5663,"end":5701},"Was ist nicht viel finde für so Auch 'n recht komplexes System, also",{"sentences":38079,"speaker":149,"num_words":37853,"start":5703,"end":5722},[38080],{"text":38081,"start":5703,"end":5722},"Und für eine Person alleine, also Ja,",{"sentences":38083,"speaker":128,"num_words":37712,"start":5722,"end":5732},[38084,38085],{"text":5727,"start":5722,"end":5724},{"text":38086,"start":5724,"end":5732},"Ja, ja.",{"sentences":38088,"speaker":149,"num_words":38095,"start":5732,"end":5883},[38089,38091,38093],{"text":38090,"start":5732,"end":5744},"Na, ist ja so.",{"text":38092,"start":5744,"end":5801},"Wenn Du allein, wenn Du überlegst jetzt so, Frontend, Backend, dann hast Du gesagt, Du hast das mit View gemacht.",{"text":38094,"start":5801,"end":5883},"Also es ist ja auch jetzt nicht Server Side Renderd und irgendwie alles easy peasy, sondern das mit 'ner API wahrscheinlich dann auch irgendwie ordentlich gebaut so.",51,{"sentences":38097,"speaker":593,"num_words":38103,"start":5883,"end":5910},[38098,38100,38101],{"text":38099,"start":5883,"end":5894},"Nicht von Anfang an?",{"text":5901,"start":5894,"end":5898},{"text":38102,"start":5903,"end":5910},"Also wir waren am",9,{"sentences":38105,"speaker":149,"num_words":38103,"start":5912,"end":5937},[38106],{"text":38107,"start":5912,"end":5937},"Aber man waren ja auch injecten und dann rausrändern.",{"sentences":38109,"speaker":593,"num_words":38119,"start":5941,"end":6037},[38110,38112,38114,38116,38118],{"text":38111,"start":5941,"end":5945},"Ja, eben.",{"text":38113,"start":5945,"end":5958},"Das gibt sich alles.",{"text":38115,"start":5962,"end":6009},"Nee, also wir waren am Anfang wirklich rein monolithisch unterwegs und wir haben da auch viel mit Bladern gemacht.",{"text":38117,"start":6009,"end":6033},"Also VJS kam dann tatsächlich erst später dazu.",{"text":4881,"start":6036,"end":6037},34,{"sentences":38121,"speaker":593,"num_words":38126,"start":6039,"end":6156},[38122,38124],{"text":38123,"start":6039,"end":6061},"Und ich muss auch sagen, ich war nicht ganz alleine.",{"text":38125,"start":6061,"end":6156},"Wir hatten einen Studienkollegen, der sich die Fronttendhemen gekümmert hat am Anfang, ne, der dann grade so die Marktplatzseite, also alles, was dann wirklich Endkunden facing ist, hat er uns dann abgenommen oder mir abgenommen.",45,{"sentences":38128,"speaker":149,"num_words":38137,"start":6159,"end":6366},[38129,38131,38133,38135],{"text":38130,"start":6159,"end":6258},"Aber wenn Du sagst, ihr habt das vor 8 Jahren angefangen und selbst wenn ihr jetzt nicht ganz am Anfang auf View gesetzt habt, aber irgendwie dann zeitnah ja wahrscheinlich, dann wart ihr ja auch bei View noch relativ früh.",{"text":38132,"start":6260,"end":6309},"Also nicht mehr in soner Alpha- oder Betaphase, aber es war ja zumindest noch View 1, wenn überhaupt schon.",{"text":38134,"start":6309,"end":6338},"Gaga, weil es ist wahrscheinlich auch 'n bisschen besser als ich.",{"text":38136,"start":6342,"end":6366},"Aber View ist ja jetzt ja auch noch nicht so ultraalt.",81,{"sentences":38139,"speaker":593,"num_words":38144,"start":6370,"end":6484},[38140,38142],{"text":38141,"start":6370,"end":6394},"Nee, also wir sind mit 2 sind wir da aktiv rein.",{"text":38143,"start":6394,"end":6484},"Also View 2 hatten wir wirklich produktiven Einsatz und davor war's dann noch, dass wir dann eher halt, wie gesagt, mit Blade und dann hatten wir so plaen Blut mit drin.",42,{"sentences":38146,"speaker":128,"num_words":593,"start":6484,"end":6492},[38147,38148],{"text":4881,"start":6484,"end":6487},{"text":4255,"start":6491,"end":6492},{"sentences":38150,"speaker":149,"num_words":38159,"start":6494,"end":6601},[38151,38153,38155,38157],{"text":38152,"start":6494,"end":6508},"Wie seid ihr bei View gelandet?",{"text":38154,"start":6508,"end":6567},"Weil ich mein, vor 7, 8 Jahren, da war ja auch Angela grade noch son bisschen populärer, als das jetzt grade ist.",{"text":38156,"start":6567,"end":6582},"React war schon sehr dominant.",{"text":38158,"start":6585,"end":6601},"Wie sah so der Entscheidungsprozess aus?",39,{"sentences":38161,"speaker":593,"num_words":38171,"start":6604,"end":6767},[38162,38164,38166,38168,38169],{"text":38163,"start":6604,"end":6624},"Es war jetzt für mein Empfinden sehr zugänglich.",{"text":38165,"start":6627,"end":6657},"Also letztlich hab ich mich dann da mit den gängigen Framework auseinandergesetzt.",{"text":38167,"start":6661,"end":6665},"Und View.",{"text":6670,"start":6665,"end":6669},{"text":38170,"start":6669,"end":6767},"S war damals son bisschen am Kommen und war dann auch sehr, ja, sehr breit gestreut auch in die News, wenn man sich damit beschäftigt hat und dann halt mal getestet und für gut befunden und eingebaut.",60,{"sentences":38173,"speaker":149,"num_words":38182,"start":6770,"end":6923},[38174,38176,38178,38180],{"text":38175,"start":6770,"end":6794},"Ist tatsächlich was, was ich so schon öfter gehört hab.",{"text":38177,"start":6794,"end":6891},"Also als die sagen so, na ja, wenn Du jetzt nicht gleich irgendwie große bauen willst und so sich son bisschen dem nähern willst, hier mal 'n kleines Widget, da eine Komponente, dann ist irgendwie View Genau.",{"text":38179,"start":6893,"end":6903},"Das, was am Genau.",{"text":38181,"start":6903,"end":6923},"Am lesbarsten und zugänglichsten irgendwie erscheint.",57,{"sentences":38184,"speaker":593,"num_words":37848,"start":6923,"end":7089},[38185,38187,38189,38191],{"text":38186,"start":6923,"end":6953},"Genau, wir konnten's halt auch dann einfach sukzessive einbauen, ne.",{"text":38188,"start":6953,"end":6998},"Ich mein, ich glaub, Angular war ja so, man musste ja all in gehen quasi, damit zu starten.",{"text":38190,"start":6998,"end":7023},"Und View js konnte man dann eher partiell nutzen, ne.",{"text":38192,"start":7023,"end":7089},"Dann haben wir beispielsweise mitm Checkout angefangen, haben dort Teile mit gebaut, nach und nach dann andere Teile nachgezogen und das war halt einfach angenehmer.",{"sentences":38194,"speaker":149,"num_words":37691,"start":7092,"end":7183},[38195,38196,38198,38199,38201],{"text":2453,"start":7092,"end":7093},{"text":38197,"start":7096,"end":7156},"Weil Du grade den Checkout ansprichst, ihr seid ja 'n Marktplatz, weil ihr quasi die Verträge für die Automietung vermittelt, nicht wahr?",{"text":4255,"start":7159,"end":7160},{"text":38200,"start":7160,"end":7179},"Das heißt, kürört ihr euch auch Geld?",{"text":4255,"start":7182,"end":7183},{"sentences":38203,"speaker":149,"num_words":38213,"start":7186,"end":7425},[38204,38206,38208,38210,38211],{"text":38205,"start":7186,"end":7194},"Wie war das so?",{"text":38207,"start":7194,"end":7273},"Weil ich weiß, als ich das erste Mal was gebaut hab, wo dann wirklich so Geld durch die Gegend geschoben wird, da wird man so als Entwickler 'n bisschen nervös.",{"text":38209,"start":7276,"end":7397},"Also wenn jetzt hier was passiert und ich muss hier irgendwie, weiß ich, eine Kreditkarte belasten und dann wirklich was einziehen oder ich muss hier eine Transaktion anstoßen oder so was, das ist ja irgendwie was anderes, als irgendwie mal eine Zeile in der Datenbank zu verrutschen.",{"text":4255,"start":7400,"end":7401},{"text":38212,"start":7404,"end":7425},"Habt ihr da was selbst Gebautes genommen?",89,{"sentences":38215,"speaker":149,"num_words":37739,"start":7425,"end":7467},[38216,38218,38220],{"text":38217,"start":7425,"end":7441},"Habt ihr da irgendwie 'n verwendet?",{"text":38219,"start":7445,"end":7455},"Wie sah das damals aus?",{"text":38221,"start":7455,"end":7467},"Wie sieht das heute aus?",{"sentences":38223,"speaker":593,"num_words":38226,"start":7469,"end":7503},[38224],{"text":38225,"start":7469,"end":7503},"Also damals waren wir, quasi, 'n bisschen hemdsärmelig auch unterwegs, muss man so sagen,",14,{"sentences":38228,"speaker":149,"num_words":37717,"start":7505,"end":7533},[38229,38230],{"text":1851,"start":7505,"end":7506},{"text":38231,"start":7506,"end":7533},"Kreditkartendaten im Klartext in die Esculette geschrieben.",{"sentences":38233,"speaker":593,"num_words":38244,"start":7537,"end":7795},[38234,38236,38238,38240,38242],{"text":38235,"start":7537,"end":7555},"Genau, einfach so direkt die secrets weggeschrieben.",{"text":38237,"start":7559,"end":7580},"Nee, das nicht, also so schlimm war's ja nicht.",{"text":38239,"start":7582,"end":7644},"Aber tatsächlich haben wir dann auch uns vom von den Business hat sich 'n bisschen gewandelt, also ganz am Anfang hatten wir auch der Mobilitätsanbieter.",{"text":38241,"start":7648,"end":7700},"Also mehr oder weniger hatten wir dann die Autos vom Händler übernommen und waren dann direkt im Mietvertrag mit dem Kunden.",{"text":38243,"start":7703,"end":7795},"Das haben wir irgendwann gedreht, weil wir gemerkt haben, da gehört dann so viel anderes noch dazu rein, was die das Management der Fahrzeuge angeht, dass wir das dann gedreht haben zu diesem Marktplatzkonstrukt, wie wir's jetzt haben.",100,{"sentences":38246,"speaker":593,"num_words":38256,"start":7797,"end":8057},[38247,38249,38251,38253,38254],{"text":38248,"start":7797,"end":7847},"Und bei den Payment Sachen sind wir letztlich dann auf Stripe gegangen, ne, weil die technisch sehr zugänglich waren.",{"text":38250,"start":7847,"end":7914},"Die waren damals schon von ihrer API sehr gut dokumentiert, sehr gut zugänglich und damit konnten wir dann sehr schnell die Zahlungen auch sicher abwickeln, ne.",{"text":38252,"start":7914,"end":7998},"Und entsprechend auch dieses Marktplatzkonstrukt, also letztlich haben wir dann auch bei Stripe diese Connect Funktionalität, wo wir dann als Plattform agieren und dort die Händler anschließen, jeweils mit 'nem eigenen Stripeaccount.",{"text":2453,"start":8002,"end":8003},{"text":38255,"start":8003,"end":8057},"Und die Gelder quasi dann durch die Gegend schieben und sogar nicht BaFin Lizenz oder sonst irgendwas kümmern müssen.",97,{"sentences":38258,"speaker":128,"num_words":593,"start":8057,"end":8064},[38259,38260],{"text":4255,"start":8057,"end":8060},{"text":4255,"start":8063,"end":8064},{"sentences":38262,"speaker":149,"num_words":38269,"start":8064,"end":8208},[38263,38265,38267],{"text":38264,"start":8064,"end":8087},"Ja, Stripe hat echt eine eine coole Dokumentation.",{"text":38266,"start":8091,"end":8149},"Als ich noch Developer Relations gemacht hab, war an verschiedenen Stellen eigentlich Stripe immer so der Goldstandard, den man so erreichen will.",{"text":38268,"start":8149,"end":8208},"Stripe, Twilio sind so die ganz Großen da draußen, die echt coole und auch so interaktive Dokumentationen so pioniert haben.",50,{"sentences":38271,"speaker":593,"num_words":128,"start":8210,"end":8211},[38272],{"text":4255,"start":8210,"end":8211},{"sentences":38274,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":8211,"end":8215},[38275],{"text":8217,"start":8211,"end":8215},{"sentences":38277,"speaker":593,"num_words":38280,"start":8215,"end":8291},[38278],{"text":38279,"start":8215,"end":8291},"Und die haben uns auch wirklich gut in in allen möglichen Edge Cases, die wir so hatten, gut betreut und ja, fühlen uns einfach auch so gut aufgehoben.",28,{"sentences":38282,"speaker":149,"num_words":37717,"start":8291,"end":8312},[38283],{"text":38284,"start":8291,"end":8312},"Was ist son Edge Case in der Autovermietung?",{"sentences":38286,"speaker":593,"num_words":37751,"start":8315,"end":8387},[38287,38289],{"text":38288,"start":8315,"end":8367},"Also das ist dann eher so von den Vertragskonstrukt her, ne, weil vieles machen wir halt direkt über die API.",{"text":38290,"start":8367,"end":8387},"Also wir nutzen Stripes nicht übers Dashboard.",{"sentences":38292,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":8387,"end":8391},[38293],{"text":2453,"start":8387,"end":8391},{"sentences":38295,"speaker":593,"num_words":37836,"start":8391,"end":8596},[38296,38298,38300],{"text":38297,"start":8391,"end":8450},"Ne, das machen wir dann in seltenen Fällen mal, wenn wir den Abovertrag irgendwie anpassen müssen, den den Betrag et cetera.",{"text":38299,"start":8453,"end":8584},"Und manchmal entstehen dann ganz komische Konstrukte, sagen wir, auf der Datenseite, die man irgendwie aufdröseln muss oder aufräumen muss und dann stellenweise auch wirklich weit in die Historie zurückgehen muss, weil das dann beispielsweise 'n Abo war, das zustande gekommen ist, bevor wir das Konstrukt gedreht haben, ne.",{"text":38301,"start":8584,"end":8596},"Das vertraglich Konstrukt dahinter.",{"sentences":38303,"speaker":149,"num_words":38103,"start":8599,"end":8623},[38304],{"text":38305,"start":8599,"end":8623},"Ja, und die habt ihr alle migriert sozusagen, ja.",{"sentences":38307,"speaker":593,"num_words":37751,"start":8623,"end":8696},[38308,38310,38312],{"text":38309,"start":8623,"end":8654},"Ja, oder manche halt dann halt auch nicht, weil die durchgefallen sind.",{"text":38311,"start":8657,"end":8692},"Und da braucht man halt einfach Stripesupport und die haben dann immer gut mitgeholfen.",{"text":4690,"start":8695,"end":8696},{"sentences":38314,"speaker":128,"num_words":37836,"start":8699,"end":8909},[38315,38317,38319,38321,38323],{"text":38316,"start":8699,"end":8769},"Wie, ich hatte gelesen und weil Du's auch grad ansprichst, dass Fahren öfter mal das Geschäftsmodell wechseln musste, damit ihr auch irgendwie langfristig gut aufgestellt seid.",{"text":38318,"start":8772,"end":8794},"Hat das auch viele Änderungen bei dir verursacht?",{"text":38320,"start":8794,"end":8868},"Also musstest Du da Also vielleicht erst mal die Frage, was waren das für Geschäftsmodelländerungen und wie viel Aufwand hattest Du da auch mit Dinge umzubauen?",{"text":38322,"start":8871,"end":8905},"Und wie viel konntest Du da von dem, was Du schon hattest, verwenden?",{"text":4255,"start":8908,"end":8909},{"sentences":38325,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":8909,"end":8924},[38326],{"text":38327,"start":8909,"end":8924},"Also das das Erste, was ich",{"sentences":38329,"speaker":593,"num_words":38340,"start":8924,"end":9182},[38330,38332,38334,38336,38338],{"text":38331,"start":8924,"end":9007},"jetzt schon angesprochen hatte, dass wir einfach die Vertragsbeziehung geändert haben, hin von soner, ich sag mal, linearen Vertrag, wo wir in der Mitte stehen, hin zu 'nem eher Dreieckskonstrukt.",{"text":38333,"start":9010,"end":9031},"Das war tatsächlich relativ unproblematisch, auch technisch betrachtet.",{"text":38335,"start":9034,"end":9058},"Wir haben ja dann aber noch andere Sachen neben dem Marktplatz.",{"text":38337,"start":9058,"end":9139},"Beispielsweise haben wir uns dazu entschlossen, dass wir auch 'n bisschen Richtung SAST Provider gehen, quasi White Label Lösungen entwickeln, die wir dann unseren Partnern anbieten können.",{"text":38339,"start":9142,"end":9182},"Und neben der White Label halt auch APIs, sodass wir dann quasi wirklich direkt integriert werden können.",93,{"sentences":38342,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":9184,"end":9246},[38343],{"text":38344,"start":9184,"end":9246},"Das heißt, wenn ich als BMW meine eigene Vermietung, Langzeitvermietung starten will, dann kann ich jetzt quasi euer euer Set-up nutzen.",{"sentences":38346,"speaker":593,"num_words":38171,"start":9246,"end":9408},[38347,38349],{"text":38348,"start":9246,"end":9278},"Genau, dass es dann einfach unter der eigenen Brand läuft, ne.",{"text":38350,"start":9278,"end":9408},"Und je nachdem, wie weit die Integration oder wie technisch affin denn der Partner ist, geht das halt von der White Label quasi einen One Click Setup, sag ich jetzt mal, bis hin zu, man möchte das schon bestehende Systeme integrieren über die API, wo's dann sehr technisch wird.",{"sentences":38352,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":9408,"end":9414},[38353,38354],{"text":2453,"start":9408,"end":9411},{"text":4881,"start":9411,"end":9414},{"sentences":38356,"speaker":593,"num_words":38044,"start":9414,"end":9544},[38357],{"text":38358,"start":9414,"end":9544},"Und das war dann technisch natürlich schon 'n dickeres Brett, was wir bohren mussten, ne, weil wir dann auch die ganze Infrastruktur und die Systemarchitektur dahinter infrage gestellt haben, geguckt haben, wie bringen wir das jetzt eigentlich mit den Monolithen, die wir damals noch hatten, halt wirklich in Einklang.",{"sentences":38360,"speaker":149,"num_words":38369,"start":9547,"end":9724},[38361,38363,38365,38367],{"text":38362,"start":9547,"end":9560},"Und wie habt ihr das gelöst?",{"text":38364,"start":9560,"end":9597},"Man kann ja so White Label Sachen im Prinzip immer auf 2 Arten lösen.",{"text":38366,"start":9597,"end":9687},"Entweder man setzt son Multitanant System auf, wo man sagt, es gibt eine Anwendung, die im Prinzip läuft, aber halt verschiedene, was der deutsche Begriff für Tenant, Kunden im Prinzip so unterstützt.",{"text":38368,"start":9690,"end":9724},"Oder man instanziert halt dieselbe Codebase irgendwie siebenundzwanzigmal jeweils mit kleinen Änderungen.",64,{"sentences":38371,"speaker":593,"num_words":38381,"start":9727,"end":9951},[38372,38373,38375,38377,38379],{"text":4255,"start":9727,"end":9728},{"text":38374,"start":9732,"end":9744},"Da haben wir uns dagegen entschieden.",{"text":38376,"start":9747,"end":9771},"Wir wollten jetzt nicht dann lauter verschiedene Codebases haben.",{"text":38378,"start":9773,"end":9860},"Es stand zwar mal im Raum, weil wir überlegt haben, gut, wenn jetzt 'n Kunde wirklich sehr hohe Individualisierungsansprüche hat, würde man sie sicherlich leichter tun, wenn man die gesamte Codebase irgendwie dupliziert.",{"text":38380,"start":9860,"end":9951},"Bück natürlich unglaubliche Gefahren, weil dann hat man 'n paar Klienten, die das sehr individuell haben wollten und rucki zucki hat man einfach massiv viele unterschiedliche Codebases und keiner blickt mehr durch, ne.",82,{"sentences":38383,"speaker":593,"num_words":38392,"start":9951,"end":10311},[38384,38386,38388,38390],{"text":38385,"start":9951,"end":9966},"Deswegen haben wir uns dagegen entschieden.",{"text":38387,"start":9966,"end":10027},"Wir haben dann gesagt, okay, die zentrale Geschäftslogik ist die gleiche, auch wenn ich jetzt eine White Label hab oder das über die API passiert.",{"text":38389,"start":10027,"end":10180},"Von daher haben wir gesagt, wir behalten die bei uns im Kernsystem und haben dann für die White Labels außenrum kleinere spezialisierte Services gebaut, beispielsweise für das Konfigurationsmanagement, dann der Shop an sich, der White Label Shop ist quasi auch losgelöst von unserem zentralen System, sodass wir da wirklich auf diese individuellen Anforderungen eingehen konnten.",{"text":38391,"start":10182,"end":10311},"Und von der Architektur haben wir's so gemacht, wir haben quasi eine skaliefige Instanz davonstehen, die je nachdem, über welche URL das aufgerufen wird, mit welchen Konfigurationsparametern, dann halt spezifisch die Kunden die Kundenkonfiguration lädt, ne, und das entsprechend dann halt anders aussieht und sich anders verhält.",133,{"sentences":38394,"speaker":149,"num_words":38405,"start":10314,"end":10595},[38395,38397,38399,38401,38403],{"text":38396,"start":10314,"end":10390},"Ist ist die Herausforderung bei soner Whitelabelösung eher der der Shop und das das Frontend, weil es soll bei, weiß nicht, BMW halt irgendwie sehr nach deren CI aussehen.",{"text":38398,"start":10393,"end":10447},"Und bei, ich sag mal, dem nächstbesten Autohaus ist es irgendwie egal, die wollen nur ihr Logo drin haben so ungefähr, ja.",{"text":38400,"start":10450,"end":10545},"Oder ist die Challenge eher, also ich hab von Autos jetzt ehrlicherweise nicht ultraviel Ahnung, aber ich stell mir vor, dass es halt 1000000000 unterschiedliche SKUs sind, weil ja kein Auto im Prinzip zweimal sozusagen vorkommt, ne.",{"text":38402,"start":10547,"end":10577},"Es kommt irgendwie zu euch mit 'nem anderen Baujahr, mit 'ner anderen Erstzulassung.",{"text":38404,"start":10580,"end":10595},"Also die unterscheiden sich ja quasi alle.",108,{"sentences":38407,"speaker":149,"num_words":38410,"start":10595,"end":10709},[38408],{"text":38409,"start":10595,"end":10709},"Und es ist nicht so, dass Du jetzt sagst, ich leg hier einmal mein Auto an und hab davon 100 Stück auf Lager und wart jetzt, bis die alle weg sind, sondern das ist ja wahrscheinlich super pflegeintensiv, diesen Produktkatalog da irgendwie aufzubauen.",43,{"sentences":38412,"speaker":593,"num_words":38423,"start":10713,"end":10913},[38413,38415,38417,38419,38421],{"text":38414,"start":10713,"end":10721},"Ja, es geht tatsächlich.",{"text":38416,"start":10721,"end":10745},"Also wir haben uns dann 'n bisschen generalistisch gehalten.",{"text":38418,"start":10748,"end":10793},"Also letztlich haben wir die Möglichkeit, bei uns die Fahrzeuge dann individuell anzulegen, also wirklich das eine physische Fahrzeug.",{"text":38420,"start":10796,"end":10864},"Wir haben auch die Möglichkeit, dann stapeln, nennen wir's bei uns anzulegen, also dass dann halt 'n großer Händler sagt, ich hab jetzt einhundert Ford Focus.",{"text":38422,"start":10868,"end":10913},"Und dann legt er das einmal an mit den spezifischen Ausstattungsmerkmalen und sagt halt, davon hab ich 100.",76,{"sentences":38425,"speaker":593,"num_words":38436,"start":10917,"end":11116},[38426,38428,38430,38432,38434],{"text":38427,"start":10917,"end":10999},"Ja und dann duplizieren wir das Fahrzeug im Hintergrund, wenn das Abo startet, dann haben wir ja das physische Fahrzeug, dann können wir das anreichern, die notwendigen Attribute noch.",{"text":38429,"start":11003,"end":11020},"Also das war jetzt nicht das so Problematische.",{"text":38431,"start":11025,"end":11051},"Problematisch war's oder herausfordernder war's eher die spezifischen Anforderungen, ne.",{"text":38433,"start":11051,"end":11074},"Dann gibt's 'n Kunde, der möchte 'n geschlossenen Shop haben.",{"text":38435,"start":11076,"end":11116},"Also man kommt nur rein auf Einladung oder nur mit vorheriger Registrierung, der andere möcht's offenhalten.",73,{"sentences":38438,"speaker":593,"num_words":38064,"start":11121,"end":11181},[38439,38441],{"text":38440,"start":11121,"end":11154},"Wieder jemand anderes möchte da seine eigenen Gutscheine und Coupons irgendwie drin haben.",{"text":38442,"start":11154,"end":11181},"Und das war dann wesentlich herausfordernder, das dann zu realisieren.",{"sentences":38444,"speaker":149,"num_words":38449,"start":11184,"end":11256},[38445,38447],{"text":38446,"start":11184,"end":11236},"Ohne jetzt zu viel von euren Geschäftszahlen zu verraten, aber wie viele von diesen White Labelösungen unterhaltet ihr so?",{"text":38448,"start":11238,"end":11256},"Ja, die sind Größenordnungen reicht.",24,{"sentences":38451,"speaker":593,"num_words":37958,"start":11256,"end":11274},[38452],{"text":38453,"start":11256,"end":11274},"Ja, so im oberen zweistelligen Bereich.",{"sentences":38455,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":11274,"end":11277},[38456],{"text":4881,"start":11274,"end":11277},{"sentences":38458,"speaker":128,"num_words":38369,"start":11280,"end":11442},[38459,38461,38462,38464,38466],{"text":38460,"start":11280,"end":11307},"Aber ihr macht das, ihr habt ja euren eigenen Marketplace, ne?",{"text":4255,"start":11307,"end":11309},{"text":38463,"start":11311,"end":11366},"Und kannst Du denn sagen, was Also ich hab's so verstanden, dass ihr diese White Level Lösung ja danach aufgesetzt habt.",{"text":38465,"start":11366,"end":11414},"Also ihr hättet euer Marketplace, habt gesehen, okay, andere kommen zu uns und fragen, ob sie das auch haben können.",{"text":38467,"start":11416,"end":11442},"War das denn, also ist das jetzt der größere Geschäftsbereich eigentlich?",{"sentences":38469,"speaker":128,"num_words":38476,"start":11442,"end":11492},[38470,38472,38474],{"text":38471,"start":11442,"end":11465},"Oder fokussiert ihr euch hauptsächlich auf eure eigene Plattform?",{"text":38473,"start":11465,"end":11477},"Oder läuft das so parallel?",{"text":38475,"start":11480,"end":11492},"Also was ist so euer Hauptfokus?",20,{"sentences":38478,"speaker":593,"num_words":38488,"start":11496,"end":11705},[38479,38481,38483,38484,38486],{"text":38480,"start":11496,"end":11509},"Fokus ist der Marktplatz, ne.",{"text":38482,"start":11509,"end":11541},"Das ist wirklich unser unser Kerngeschäft, auf den wir uns so konzentrieren.",{"text":2453,"start":11544,"end":11545},{"text":38485,"start":11545,"end":11651},"Und das andere sind dann eher so Sachen, die wir quasi mit in die Waagschale werfen können, ne, wenn's dann die Entscheidungsfindung beim Partner geht und beim Kunden und sagt, okay, wir bieten halt noch das an und das an.",{"text":38487,"start":11651,"end":11705},"Und das ist dann halt immer gern gesehen, weil sich das gegenseitig halt auch, ich sag jetzt mal befruchtet, ne.",78,{"sentences":38490,"speaker":593,"num_words":38030,"start":11708,"end":11919},[38491,38493,38495,38497,38499],{"text":38492,"start":11708,"end":11762},"Weil wir beispielsweise Kunden, die eine Whitelabel benutzen, die können wir ja trotzdem auf dem Marktplatz Reichweite generieren, ne.",{"text":38494,"start":11762,"end":11861},"Und das ist halt schon mal 'n wichtiger Punkt, weil wir gemerkt haben, 'n Partner, der das komplett selbstständig machen möchte, muss zum einen halt die Softwareentwicklung ja irgendwie Inhouse machen oder über eine Agentur, die er selbst steuert.",{"text":38496,"start":11865,"end":11875},"Dann muss er Marketing machen.",{"text":38498,"start":11875,"end":11888},"Er muss halt wirklich dahinter sein.",{"text":38500,"start":11888,"end":11919},"Er muss 'n operatives Team aufbauen, was dann das Ganze betreut.",{"sentences":38502,"speaker":593,"num_words":38410,"start":11922,"end":12035},[38503,38505,38507],{"text":38504,"start":11922,"end":11944},"Und das ist halt eine unglaublich höhere hohe Einstiegshürde.",{"text":38506,"start":11947,"end":12005},"Und über unseren Marktplatz und darüber, dass wir halt dann auch beispielsweise 'n Endkundensupport mit übernehmen, ist der Einstieg wesentlich einfacher, ne.",{"text":38508,"start":12005,"end":12035},"Und dann kann man quasi das Beste aus den beiden Systemen nutzen.",{"sentences":38510,"speaker":149,"num_words":37836,"start":12037,"end":12225},[38511,38513,38515],{"text":38512,"start":12037,"end":12097},"Was vorhin auch gesagt, dass es euch schon wichtig war, dass das dieselbe Codebase am Ende bleibt und nicht so sehr fragmentiert wird.",{"text":38514,"start":12100,"end":12158},"Wie viele Momente habt ihr so, wo ihr in eure Codebase dann 'n Feature einbaut, was jetzt ein neuer Kunde sich beispielsweise wünscht.",{"text":38516,"start":12161,"end":12225},"Und der Marktplatz, andere Kunden profitieren auch davon versus wie oft baut ihr Lösungen eigentlich nur für einen Kunden und die anderen haben da nicht so viel davon?",{"sentences":38518,"speaker":593,"num_words":38527,"start":12228,"end":12393},[38519,38521,38523,38525],{"text":38520,"start":12228,"end":12267},"Ja, das war tatsächlich 'n Lernprozess, den wir auch in der gesamten Firma durchlaufen mussten.",{"text":38522,"start":12270,"end":12330},"Ganz am Anfang waren wir natürlich davon getrieben, immer möglichst große Kunden zu bekommen und da haben wir auch sehr viel sehr individuell gemacht, ja.",{"text":38524,"start":12330,"end":12347},"Und da sind wir mittlerweile komplett von weg.",{"text":38526,"start":12350,"end":12393},"Also alles, was wir jetzt einbauen, bauen wir so, dass es für den für das gesamte System genutzt werden kann.",68,{"sentences":38529,"speaker":149,"num_words":37905,"start":12395,"end":12614},[38530,38532,38534,38536],{"text":38531,"start":12395,"end":12429},"Und macht dir das auch so, dass es dann automatisch für alle anderen Kunden auch erscheint?",{"text":38533,"start":12429,"end":12573},"Weil das ist ja immer so, beim Multitalant Systemen die Frage, ne, diese ganzen Features, die Du quasi quer subventionierst durch deine anderen Kunden, willst Du die anderen Kunden auch gleich zur Verfügung stellen oder ist das son Upselling Ding dann eher oder habt ihr son, weiß nicht, 'n getiertes Pricing Modell oder so?",{"text":38535,"start":12573,"end":12600},"Wie wie entscheidet ihr, welche neuen Features an wen ausgerollt werden?",{"text":38537,"start":12600,"end":12614},"Oder kriegt einfach jeder alles immer?",{"sentences":38539,"speaker":593,"num_words":37817,"start":12618,"end":12656},[38540,38542],{"text":38541,"start":12618,"end":12633},"Nee, das bekommt nicht jeder pauschal.",{"text":38543,"start":12637,"end":12656},"Das machen wir son bisschen abhängig vom Feature selbst.",{"sentences":38545,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":12659,"end":12660},[38546],{"text":2453,"start":12659,"end":12660},{"sentences":38548,"speaker":593,"num_words":38553,"start":12660,"end":12833},[38549,38551],{"text":38550,"start":12660,"end":12708},"Oder ist es jetzt Beispiel beispielsweise eine Erweiterung in der API, dann ist das eigentlich eher für alle verfügbar.",{"text":38552,"start":12711,"end":12833},"Ist es jetzt eher was, sagen wir, bei uns in der in der Verwaltungsoberfläche, bei uns im Partner Dashboard ist, dann machen wir's auch mal abhängig davon, ob wir da vielleicht 'n kleines Preispaket draus schnüren und das dann quasi son Add on ist, was 'n Partner buchen kann bei uns.",70,{"sentences":38555,"speaker":149,"num_words":38423,"start":12836,"end":13043},[38556,38558,38560],{"text":38557,"start":12836,"end":12857},"Und nutzt ihr für so was Feature Flex?",{"text":38559,"start":12857,"end":12949},"Macht ihr das kundenspezifisch wie, also ich musste so was auch mal bauen, deswegen würd ich so superinteressiert daran, ja, und ich weiß, in welche Löcher man da irgendwie alles fallen kann.",{"text":38561,"start":12952,"end":13043},"Konfiguriert ihr das wirklich pro jedem Kunden neu oder habt ihr euch einmal so überlegt, okay, es gibt hier Kundenprofil ABC und je nachdem, wo Du dann reinfällst, kriegst Du halt irgendwie Features oder eben nicht?",{"sentences":38563,"speaker":593,"num_words":38449,"start":13047,"end":13111},[38564,38566,38567],{"text":38565,"start":13047,"end":13106},"Also wir haben son kleine selbst gebaute Feature Flag, son kleines Feature Fleck System, wo wir das dann halt aktivieren pro Partner.",{"text":2093,"start":13106,"end":13109},{"text":4255,"start":13109,"end":13111},{"sentences":38569,"speaker":149,"num_words":37785,"start":13114,"end":13360},[38570,38571,38573,38575,38577],{"text":4690,"start":13114,"end":13115},{"text":38572,"start":13119,"end":13194},"Du hast vorhin gesagt, ihr habt im Zuge dessen auch son bisschen euch die ganze Architektur noch mal angeguckt und überlegt, wie ihr das dann so sauber aufsetzen könnt für viele Kunden dann entsprechend.",{"text":38574,"start":13197,"end":13265},"Habt ihr jemals euren Gesamtstag so hinterfragt, sagt so, oh, dieses PHP und dieses Lahrvelle und View, das hat uns zwar am Anfang gut getragen.",{"text":38576,"start":13265,"end":13283},"Das kann ja super legitim sein, ne.",{"text":38578,"start":13283,"end":13360},"Ich find immer, man man darf so Lösungen nicht nicht zu kritisch sehen, weil immerhin haben sie sich dahin gebracht, wo Du bist und das ist ja schon irgendwie immer gut.",{"sentences":38580,"speaker":149,"num_words":38553,"start":13363,"end":13529},[38581,38583,38585,38587],{"text":38582,"start":13363,"end":13467},"Aber trotzdem darf man ja auch diesen Zeitpunkt nicht verpassen, einmal zu hinterfragen, ob's quasi Zeit wird, das alles mal in die Tonne zu treten und vielleicht auf, ich weiß es nicht, in Java neu zu bauen oder hast Du nicht gesehen so, ja.",{"text":38584,"start":13469,"end":13477},"Wart ihr da schon?",{"text":38586,"start":13480,"end":13491},"Habt ihr euch dagegen entschieden?",{"text":38588,"start":13491,"end":13529},"Habt ihr euch dafür entschieden und macht das irgendwann oder wie guckt ihr heute auf diesen Stack?",{"sentences":38590,"speaker":593,"num_words":38601,"start":13532,"end":13747},[38591,38593,38595,38597,38599],{"text":38592,"start":13532,"end":13553},"Ja, also wir hatten diesen Moment mindestens zweimal.",{"text":38594,"start":13556,"end":13617},"Also das das eine Mal war, da wir dann uns als Team zusammengesetzt, haben gemerkt, okay, pass auf, irgendwo haben wir halt auch technische Schulden.",{"text":38596,"start":13620,"end":13672},"Das System hat halt seine Macken, die es halt so hat über die 8 Jahre und haben dann uns verschiedene Technologien angeguckt.",{"text":38598,"start":13672,"end":13718},"Also wir haben dann Richtung nodejas geguckt, wir haben Richtung Python geguckt und haben das dann evaluiert.",{"text":38600,"start":13721,"end":13747},"Und dann hatten wir sone Phase auch noch mal mit Go.",83,{"sentences":38603,"speaker":593,"num_words":38614,"start":13750,"end":14029},[38604,38606,38608,38610,38612],{"text":38605,"start":13750,"end":13792},"Mit Go waren wir dann tatsächlich so weit, dass wir gesagt haben, wir bauen jetzt Services mit Go, ne.",{"text":38607,"start":13792,"end":13839},"Das haben wir dann auch für ein, 2 Services gemacht und wollten dann auch an unser großes Kernsystem ran.",{"text":38609,"start":13842,"end":13943},"Letztlich haben wir dann aber gemerkt, dass die Lernkurve doch so steil ist und wir dadurch dann halt so abgelenkt sind von unserem Business eigentlich, ne, dass wir das Business voranbringen, dass die Gefahr zu groß war, dass der Rest eigentlich stehen bleibt.",{"text":38611,"start":13946,"end":14010},"Also dass das Business, der Support, die Key Account Manager quasi mit dem arbeiten müssen, was da ist und das nicht weiter vorangetrieben werden kann.",{"text":38613,"start":14010,"end":14029},"Dass wir gesagt haben, das funktioniert nicht mehr.",114,{"sentences":38616,"speaker":593,"num_words":37817,"start":14029,"end":14074},[38617,38619,38621],{"text":38618,"start":14029,"end":14057},"Wir können nicht 'n kompletten Technologiesift machen an der Stelle.",{"text":38620,"start":14060,"end":14070},"So, dass wir, ja?",{"text":4255,"start":14073,"end":14074},{"sentences":38623,"speaker":128,"num_words":38095,"start":14074,"end":14198},[38624,38626,38628,38630,38632],{"text":38625,"start":14074,"end":14089},"Darf ich da kurz einhalten?",{"text":38627,"start":14089,"end":14102},"Das find ich so spannend.",{"text":38629,"start":14102,"end":14114},"Wie habt ihr das gemerkt?",{"text":38631,"start":14118,"end":14161},"Also das ist ja gar nicht so einfach zu merken, dass man da zu viel Fokus auf anderen Themen hat.",{"text":38633,"start":14161,"end":14198},"Also habt ihr einfach gemerkt, okay, wir reden in Meetings über die falschen Themen zum Beispiel?",{"sentences":38635,"speaker":593,"num_words":37785,"start":14201,"end":14454},[38636,38638,38640],{"text":38637,"start":14201,"end":14219},"Ja oder immer über dieselben Probleme, ne.",{"text":38639,"start":14219,"end":14338},"Also das ist eigentlich 'n ganz guter Indikator, wenn denn 'n Key Account Manager kommt und sagt, okay, der Partner wartet jetzt seit, überspitzt gesagt, 8 Wochen dadrauf, dass dieser Back gefixt wird, ne, der jetzt nicht kritisch ist, aber den spezifischen Partner immer wieder ärgert.",{"text":38641,"start":14341,"end":14454},"Und dann muss man sich halt dann irgendwann fragen, okay, haben wir jetzt die Freiheit, die technologische Freiheit wirklich, uns da auszuleben in Anführungszeichen oder müssen wir halt da erst mal 'n Schritt zurückgehen und sagen, okay, wir müssen schauen, dass das Wissen halt weiterläuft?",{"sentences":38643,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":14458,"end":14475},[38644,38646],{"text":38645,"start":14458,"end":14462},"Ja, okay.",{"text":38647,"start":14465,"end":14475},"Ja, das ergibt's dann.",{"sentences":38649,"speaker":593,"num_words":38405,"start":14477,"end":14754},[38650,38651,38653,38655,38657],{"text":4255,"start":14477,"end":14478},{"text":38652,"start":14478,"end":14515},"Und letztlich die Taktik, die wir jetzt fahren, also wir nennen's jetzt bei uns Salamitaktik.",{"text":38654,"start":14518,"end":14570},"Wir haben halt gemerkt, wir können einfach nicht diesen großen Switch auf einmal machen, sondern wir schauen uns einfach, wenn wir Features haben.",{"text":38656,"start":14570,"end":14644},"Beispielsweise müssen wir was auf dem Katalog machen, aufm Marktplatz eine Checkout Strecke, dass wir das dann halt immer mit dem Ziel auf die neue Technologie betrachten, ne.",{"text":38658,"start":14644,"end":14754},"Also unser technologisches Ziel vom vom Refactoring und so ist eigentlich, dass wir 'n zentrales API System haben, was unser Kernsystem ist, dass wir dann entsprechend dahin entwickeln, die Frontends entsprechend alle rauskoppeln, sodass die nur noch über die APIs reden.",{"sentences":38660,"speaker":149,"num_words":37958,"start":14754,"end":14769},[38661],{"text":38662,"start":14754,"end":14769},"Aber das Kernsystem bleibt im PHP?",{"sentences":38664,"speaker":593,"num_words":38064,"start":14772,"end":14833},[38665,38666,38668],{"text":4255,"start":14772,"end":14773},{"text":38667,"start":14773,"end":14810},"Genau, das bleibt im PHP, weil es einfach den Anformen genügt, ne.",{"text":38669,"start":14810,"end":14833},"Das muss man an der Stelle auch einfach so sagen.",{"sentences":38671,"speaker":149,"num_words":38601,"start":14837,"end":15049},[38672,38674,38676,38678,38679],{"text":38673,"start":14837,"end":14887},"Ihr seid ja auch zu 'ner Zeit gestartet, wo PHP 'n sehr interessanten Wandel durchlebt hat, sag ich mal, ja.",{"text":38675,"start":14887,"end":15015},"Also wenn ich 8, 9 Jahre zurückguck oder oder vielleicht noch 'n paar Jahre mehr, wenn Du selber mit PHP während der Studienseite angefangen hast Und dann hin zu PHP 7 und jetzt 8 sehr starke Typisierungen, die da irgendwie kommen, statische Codeanalyse, die jetzt irgendwie überall da ist.",{"text":38677,"start":15018,"end":15043},"Das ist ja auch nicht mehr das, mit dem ihr angefangen habt.",{"text":4255,"start":15046,"end":15047},{"text":15050,"start":15047,"end":15049},{"sentences":38681,"speaker":149,"num_words":37925,"start":15053,"end":15152},[38682,38683],{"text":15055,"start":15053,"end":15054},{"text":38684,"start":15057,"end":15152},"Wie habt ihr aber das geschafft, diese ganzen, ich will nicht sagen Trends, weil das Kind zu abwertend, aber diese diesen Wandel eben mitzunehmen irgendwie auch und dann da die Früchte eben auch von ernten zu können?",{"sentences":38686,"speaker":593,"num_words":38381,"start":15155,"end":15356},[38687,38689,38691],{"text":38688,"start":15155,"end":15241},"Ja, also wir haben halt letztlich da auch immer hinterfragt, wie wir denn entwickeln, wie wir programmieren und wie wir da halt auch besser werden können und haben da halt versucht, auf dem Wege diese Sachen mitzunehmen, ne.",{"text":38690,"start":15241,"end":15318},"Ob's jetzt die statische Codeanalyse ist oder ob's jetzt, sag ich mal, weggehen von unser PHP läuft irgendwo auf 'nem extra dafür konfigurierten Webserver hin zu Containerisierung, ne.",{"text":38692,"start":15318,"end":15356},"Und dann sind wir auf dem Weg da immer son bisschen mit mitgegangen und mit reingerutscht.",{"sentences":38694,"speaker":149,"num_words":38044,"start":15359,"end":15489},[38695,38697,38699,38701],{"text":38696,"start":15359,"end":15369},"Wie schaffst Du das?",{"text":38698,"start":15369,"end":15400},"Wie schafft ihr das im Team, so Sachen nebenbei zu lernen?",{"text":38700,"start":15403,"end":15469},"Weil auch, wie man einen ordentlichen Container baut und deployed muss ja muss man ja mal gelernt haben, das fällt ja nicht vom Himmel so wissen.",{"text":38702,"start":15473,"end":15489},"Wie wie integriert ihr das in euren Alltag?",{"sentences":38704,"speaker":593,"num_words":38715,"start":15492,"end":15781},[38705,38707,38709,38711,38713],{"text":38706,"start":15492,"end":15555},"Ja, vieles ist tatsächlich Eigenmotivation, also bin ich auch recht happy über das Team, das ich hab, die da halt einfach diesen eigenen Antrieb haben, ne.",{"text":38708,"start":15555,"end":15642},"Also wir haben da auch drauf geachtet, letztlich beim Aufbau des Teams, diese Eigenverantwortung und diesen, mal, die Selbstmotivation, da das System zu verbessern, dass wir das irgendwie auch immer mit mit fördern.",{"text":38710,"start":15645,"end":15700},"Und auf der anderen Seite haben wir dann auch geguckt, dass wir Zeiträume schaffen, indem man sich mit solchen Technologien auseinandersetzen kann.",{"text":38712,"start":15700,"end":15724},"Also wir haben beispielsweise jeden Freitag son sone Codingrunde.",{"text":38714,"start":15728,"end":15781},"Das ist, also inhaltlich ist immer was anderes, aber ursprünglich war der Gedanke da, dass man sich da mit neuen Technologien auseinandersetzt.",112,{"sentences":38717,"speaker":593,"num_words":38726,"start":15784,"end":15927},[38718,38720,38722,38724],{"text":38719,"start":15784,"end":15803},"Und jetzt haben wir damals mit Go angefangen.",{"text":38721,"start":15803,"end":15836},"Also das heißt, wir haben uns jeden Freitag zusammengesetzt, haben zusammen Go geschrieben, ne.",{"text":38723,"start":15836,"end":15909},"Also da hab ich mich da auch nicht rausgenommen, weil ich musste auch Go lernen, weil letztlich bin ich ja auch immer noch mit relativ nah dran an der Technik.",{"text":38725,"start":15912,"end":15927},"Und da hat's dann ganz gut geklappt.",59,{"sentences":38728,"speaker":128,"num_words":38735,"start":15930,"end":16007},[38729,38731,38733],{"text":38730,"start":15930,"end":15940},"Was heißt zusammen Go geschrieben?",{"text":38732,"start":15940,"end":15994},"Also saßt ihr dann alle in 'nem Meeting und hat eine Aufgabe gelöst und eine hat gecodet, also getippt.",{"text":38734,"start":15998,"end":16007},"Oder wie sah das aus?",29,{"sentences":38737,"speaker":593,"num_words":38748,"start":16007,"end":16215},[38738,38740,38742,38744,38746],{"text":38739,"start":16007,"end":16015},"Ja, sone Mischung.",{"text":38741,"start":16018,"end":16073},"Also zu dem Zeitpunkt war's dann schon so, dass man dann sagt, okay, ich hab son eigenes kleines Go Projekt, an dem programmier ich mich aus.",{"text":38743,"start":16073,"end":16110},"Wenn ich Fragen hab, dann kann ich die quasi direkt in der Runde stellen, ne.",{"text":38745,"start":16110,"end":16165},"Wir hatten dann damals 2 Vorreiter an Go, die da sehr schnell Zugang zu gefunden hatten, die das quasi angeleitet haben, ne.",{"text":38747,"start":16165,"end":16215},"Und dann ja auch schon an dem lebenden Services, den wir damals hatten, direkt schon da Features gemeinsam implementiert haben.",86,{"sentences":38750,"speaker":149,"num_words":38553,"start":16217,"end":16396},[38751,38753,38755,38757],{"text":38752,"start":16217,"end":16293},"Du hast gesagt, ihr habt da bei dem Teamaufbau son bisschen drauf geachtet, dass da schon die Leute irgendwie mit dem mit dem Mindset, was ihr da sucht, eben hinkommen.",{"text":38754,"start":16296,"end":16318},"Wie war das damals so, den ersten Entwickler einzustellen?",{"text":38756,"start":16321,"end":16382},"Weil das ist ja so die die erste Person, die Du heierst, die ist ja so sehr prägend für das Team, was danach potenziell kommt.",{"text":38758,"start":16384,"end":16396},"Was war das für eine Erfahrung?",{"sentences":38760,"speaker":593,"num_words":37905,"start":16399,"end":16618},[38761,38763,38765,38767,38769],{"text":38762,"start":16399,"end":16409},"Eine sehr spannende Erfahrung.",{"text":38764,"start":16412,"end":16466},"Also ganz am Anfang hatten wir hatte ich dann 2 Werkstudenten, die wir quasi bei uns ausm Uni Umfeld dann mitgeholt haben.",{"text":38766,"start":16468,"end":16532},"Das war schon eine Umstellung, weil man einfach von so Einzelkämpfermodus, ich muss das irgendwie alles alleine machen, das dann plötzlich auch 'n bisschen mitsteuern musste.",{"text":38768,"start":16535,"end":16582},"War am Anfang gar nicht so einfach, auch wenn's nur 2 Leute sind, aber irgendwie muss man die auch bespaßen, ne.",{"text":38770,"start":16582,"end":16618},"Man kann ja nicht sagen, da ist der Code, jetzt mach, wie Du denkst.",{"sentences":38772,"speaker":593,"num_words":37722,"start":16621,"end":16631},[38773],{"text":38774,"start":16621,"end":16631},"Und als dann Ist",{"sentences":38776,"speaker":149,"num_words":37722,"start":16631,"end":16646},[38777],{"text":38778,"start":16631,"end":16646},"doch Vibe Coding, oder?",{"sentences":38780,"speaker":128,"num_words":37722,"start":16646,"end":16655},[38781],{"text":38782,"start":16646,"end":16655},"Ist das nicht so?",{"sentences":38784,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":16657,"end":16661},[38785],{"text":38786,"start":16657,"end":16661},"Na ja.",{"sentences":38788,"speaker":593,"num_words":38095,"start":16664,"end":16793},[38789,38791,38793],{"text":38790,"start":16664,"end":16706},"Ja, und son richtiger Aha Moment war's dann, als dann tatsächlich der erste Seniorentwickler dazugekommen ist.",{"text":38792,"start":16706,"end":16776},"Ne, das war dann so richtig, okay, ich muss nicht mehr alles haarklein erklären, sondern man kann einfach auf 'ner Metaebene sprechen und sagen, okay, das ist die Problemstellung.",{"text":38794,"start":16779,"end":16793},"Und jetzt bitte mach einfach, ne.",{"sentences":38796,"speaker":149,"num_words":37778,"start":16796,"end":16965},[38797,38799,38801,38803,38805],{"text":38798,"start":16796,"end":16828},"Das ist ja die die eine Art der Umstellung, so dieses Inhaltliche, ne.",{"text":38800,"start":16828,"end":16857},"Du hast jemanden, der dir auch son bisschen Mental Load abnimmt.",{"text":38802,"start":16857,"end":16904},"Du kannst so High Level Sachen diskutieren und dann passt das schon irgendwie mit der mit der Implementierung am Ende.",{"text":38804,"start":16907,"end":16924},"Die andere Umstellung ist ja so die Organisatorische.",{"text":38806,"start":16927,"end":16965},"Auf einmal musst Du anfangen, dir zu überlegen, wie haben Aufgaben vielleicht Abhängigkeiten voneinander?",{"sentences":38808,"speaker":149,"num_words":38819,"start":16965,"end":17154},[38809,38811,38813,38815,38817],{"text":38810,"start":16965,"end":16975},"Was ist irgendwie wichtiger?",{"text":38812,"start":16975,"end":16989},"Was gibst Du an an wen?",{"text":38814,"start":16992,"end":17040},"So dieses ganze, ich ich weiß nicht, was ihr nutzt, aber so Giratickets jonglieren, sag ich mal, ja.",{"text":38816,"start":17043,"end":17057},"Wie wie habt ihr da reingefunden?",{"text":38818,"start":17061,"end":17154},"Insbesondere wenn jetzt bei dir, ne, von von der Uni kommt, da hat man ja noch nie vorher vielleicht in sonem anderen größeren Konzern gearbeitet und das mal gelernt oder gesehen, wie andere das vielleicht so machen.",71,{"sentences":38821,"speaker":149,"num_words":37744,"start":17156,"end":17204},[38822,38824],{"text":38823,"start":17156,"end":17192},"Ich würde mir vorstellen, dass es für euch son bisschen Learning by Doing war an der Stelle.",{"text":38825,"start":17192,"end":17204},"Wie seid ihr da durchgekommen?",{"sentences":38827,"speaker":593,"num_words":38137,"start":17207,"end":17426},[38828,38830,38832,38834,38836],{"text":38829,"start":17207,"end":17252},"Also tatsächlich hatt ich das Glück, dass ich dann in meinem Praxissemester bei Wirt IT war.",{"text":38831,"start":17252,"end":17293},"Also ich hab tatsächlich Konzernen dann mitgemacht und da auch son paar Projektmanagementsachen einfach mitnehmen können.",{"text":38833,"start":17295,"end":17313},"Und die dann halt 'n Stück weit adaptiert.",{"text":38835,"start":17313,"end":17371},"Ich sag mal, was das Tooling angeht, ne, weil ansonsten ist ja wird IT hab 'n bisschen anderes Kaliber als wir jetzt.",{"text":38837,"start":17373,"end":17426},"Und wir haben dann auch relativ zügig einen Product Owner mit dazugeholt, der dann einfach die Erfahrung mitgebracht hat.",{"sentences":38839,"speaker":593,"num_words":38011,"start":17428,"end":17532},[38840,38842],{"text":38841,"start":17428,"end":17529},"Also das war an der Stelle auch eigentlich immer der bewährte Weg, anstatt alles sich selbst dann anzueignen, eher zu gucken, lasst doch lieber Leute holen, die das halt schon 'n paar Jahre gemacht haben, ne, deren Expertise das ist.",{"text":4690,"start":17531,"end":17532},{"sentences":38844,"speaker":149,"num_words":37879,"start":17532,"end":17694},[38845,38847,38849],{"text":38846,"start":17532,"end":17586},"Also das hab ich so noch nicht so oft gehört, dass 'n Product Owner so mit bei den ersten Hiers irgendwie dabei ist.",{"text":38848,"start":17586,"end":17688},"Viele versuchen ja auf Biegen und Brechen son Developmentteam Team erst mal groß zu machen und dann ja, so Product Owner, die braucht man, wenn man mal, weiß ich nicht, 40 Developer hat, die man irgendwie auseinanderhalten muss oder so.",{"text":38850,"start":17690,"end":17694},"Aber cool.",{"sentences":38852,"speaker":128,"num_words":593,"start":17694,"end":17702},[38853],{"text":38854,"start":17694,"end":17702},"Cool, dass",{"sentences":38856,"speaker":149,"num_words":38859,"start":17702,"end":17714},[38857],{"text":38858,"start":17702,"end":17714},"es für euch funktioniert hat.",5,{"sentences":38861,"speaker":128,"num_words":37807,"start":17716,"end":17873},[38862,38864,38866,38868],{"text":38863,"start":17716,"end":17779},"Mich mich würd's sehr interessieren, wie sich so deine Arbeit geändert hat, weil Du warst ja am Anfang der Hauptentwickler, sehr viel gecoodet.",{"text":38865,"start":17783,"end":17841},"Eben hast Du gesagt, dass Du dich bei Go nicht rausgenommen hast, was ja eher so klingt, dass Du das nicht mehr so viel machst.",{"text":38867,"start":17844,"end":17859},"Wie hat sich das denn so entwickelt?",{"text":38869,"start":17862,"end":17873},"Und was machst Du grade hauptsächlich?",{"sentences":38871,"speaker":593,"num_words":37794,"start":17876,"end":17991},[38872],{"text":38873,"start":17876,"end":17991},"Ja, also wie Du schon sagst, ne, letztlich vom ich hab die ganzen Sachen selbst geschrieben, dann irgendwann zu soner Übergangsphase hin, wo ich dann schon eigentlich mehr ideengebend und konzeptionell tätig war, aber die Ausführung dann letztlich irgend einen anderer Developer ausm Team gemacht hat.",{"sentences":38875,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":17993,"end":17994},[38876],{"text":2453,"start":17993,"end":17994},{"sentences":38878,"speaker":593,"num_words":38887,"start":17997,"end":18307},[38879,38881,38883,38885],{"text":38880,"start":17997,"end":18131},"Und jetzt aktuell ist es eher so, dass ich fast nur noch strategisch aktiv bin, ne, und dann eher wirklich mit unseren Produktmanagern spreche, dass man sagt, okay, was sind die nächsten Features, die wichtig sind, da dann auch wirklich die Konzeptionierung stattfindet und ich dann eher nur mal links und rechts mal reinguck.",{"text":38882,"start":18135,"end":18229},"Stellenweise hab ich son paar Themen, wo ich dann intensiver drin bin, weil beispielsweise die ganzen Payment Sachen sind immer noch so Sachen, wo ich sehr tief drin bin, auch fachlich und da entsprechend auch viel Input im Team geben kann.",{"text":38884,"start":18231,"end":18250},"Da geh ich dann auch mal tiefer rein.",{"text":38886,"start":18252,"end":18307},"Aber an sich ist so mein Schwerpunkt jetzt grade tatsächlich auch AI, ne, wie wir das in der Firma ausrollen und mehr etablieren.",126,{"sentences":38889,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":18310,"end":18311},[38890],{"text":2453,"start":18310,"end":18311},{"sentences":38892,"speaker":593,"num_words":38897,"start":18311,"end":18418},[38893,38895],{"text":38894,"start":18311,"end":18321},"Und so Payment Sachen.",{"text":38896,"start":18321,"end":18418},"Also Payment ist ja nicht nur eine technische Implementierung, aber zumindest jetzt bei uns nicht mehr, sondern wir haben gemerkt, das ist tatsächlich auch 'n Business, das wir ausbauen können, weil's halt auf unser, ja, auf unser Umsatz einzahlen kann.",44,{"sentences":38899,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":18420,"end":18421},[38900],{"text":2453,"start":18420,"end":18421},{"sentences":38902,"speaker":128,"num_words":38905,"start":18424,"end":18508},[38903],{"text":38904,"start":18424,"end":18508},"Und als CTO ist man ja auch schon oft verantwortlich für so, also in meinen Augen, wie es den Entwicklern geht oder die auch einzustellen, die weiterzuentwickeln, da bist Du auch viel involviert?",33,{"sentences":38907,"speaker":593,"num_words":38916,"start":18512,"end":18664},[38908,38909,38911,38913,38914],{"text":4255,"start":18512,"end":18513},{"text":38910,"start":18513,"end":18555},"Also der Heiling Prozess, den mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead Development, ne.",{"text":38912,"start":18555,"end":18567},"Das machen wir quasi Ja.",{"text":18572,"start":18570,"end":18571},{"text":38915,"start":18571,"end":18664},"Ja, und ansonsten, was so, ich sag mal, die das Teamgefühl, ne, oder auch die Zufriedenheit im Team angeht, grad bei den Developern, das ist ja, wie Du schon sagst, ne, das gehört auch dazu.",55,{"sentences":38918,"speaker":593,"num_words":38929,"start":18664,"end":18748},[38919,38921,38923,38925,38927],{"text":38920,"start":18664,"end":18677},"Dass man einfach guckt, Mhm.",{"text":38922,"start":18679,"end":18690},"Was die Entwicklungsumgebung angeht.",{"text":38924,"start":18693,"end":18700},"Wie ist die grade?",{"text":38926,"start":18700,"end":18719},"Sorg das eigentlich mehr für Frust?",{"text":38928,"start":18722,"end":18748},"Oder kommt man schnell ans Laufen, wenn man neue Features entwickeln möchte?",31,{"sentences":38931,"speaker":593,"num_words":38937,"start":18748,"end":18838},[38932,38934,38935],{"text":38933,"start":18748,"end":18788},"Und das waren so Autothemen, wo ich dann schon guck, dass ich die mit vorantreib.",{"text":2453,"start":18792,"end":18793},{"text":38936,"start":18793,"end":18838},"Aber das ist so, na ja, fluktuativ, ne, je nachdem, wo halt grade auch irgendwie mein anderer Fokus liegt.",35,{"sentences":38939,"speaker":149,"num_words":38950,"start":18841,"end":19128},[38940,38942,38944,38946,38948],{"text":38941,"start":18841,"end":18907},"Für dieses ganze Thema Teamentwicklung, Hiring, Zufriedenheit braucht man ja auch sone gewisse Vision, wo's so mit dem Team hingehen soll, ja.",{"text":38943,"start":18910,"end":18955},"Wo siehst Du da das Developmentteam bei Fahren in, weiß nicht, 2, 3, 4, 5 Jahren?",{"text":38945,"start":18955,"end":18979},"Ist das eher was, was noch sehr stark wachsen soll?",{"text":38947,"start":18979,"end":19115},"Ist es was, wo Du sagst, nein, wir wir wollen eigentlich auch auf dieser Größe bleiben und eher überlegen, wie können wir mit den Leuten mehr oder andere Sachen schaffen oder irgendwie noch noch Synergien heben oder eher, na ja, wir würden gerne mehr dedizierte Teams für einzelne Aufgaben haben und das Ganze dann son bisschen skalieren.",{"text":38949,"start":19119,"end":19128},"Was soll dein Plan?",109,{"sentences":38952,"speaker":593,"num_words":38905,"start":19131,"end":19218},[38953,38955,38957],{"text":38954,"start":19131,"end":19156},"Also ich würd das gerne in Richtung crossfunktionale Teams entwickeln.",{"text":38956,"start":19159,"end":19199},"Also wir haben das historisch, also ganz am Anfang waren wir ja eigentlich cross funktional, ne.",{"text":38958,"start":19199,"end":19218},"Wir waren ja quasi eine crossfunktionales Gründerteam,",{"sentences":38960,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":19222,"end":19227},[38961,38962],{"text":2453,"start":19222,"end":19223},{"text":19228,"start":19226,"end":19227},{"sentences":38964,"speaker":593,"num_words":38975,"start":19227,"end":19417},[38965,38967,38969,38971,38973],{"text":38966,"start":19227,"end":19235},"man ja sagen.",{"text":38968,"start":19235,"end":19309},"Dann kamen immer mehr Leute dazu auf der Businessseite, auf die Developmentseite, aber irgendwie hat sich dann über die Zeit son bisschen sone Trennung entwickelt, ne.",{"text":38970,"start":19309,"end":19347},"Dass wir sagen, okay, dann ist Business, dann haben wir irgendwie Produktmanagement und dann kommt Development.",{"text":38972,"start":19350,"end":19370},"Und jetzt sind wir grade dabei, das wieder zusammenzuführen.",{"text":38974,"start":19373,"end":19417},"Also wir strukturieren insofern dass die Teams wirklich cross funktional wieder sind und dann 'n gewissen Schwerpunkt haben.",72,{"sentences":38977,"speaker":593,"num_words":38405,"start":19417,"end":19679},[38978,38980,38982,38984],{"text":38979,"start":19417,"end":19443},"Also beispielsweise den Endkunden im Fokus oder halt unseren Partner im Fokus.",{"text":38981,"start":19446,"end":19558},"Und mein Ziel wär tatsächlich, dass wir das weiter spezialisieren und ausbauen, dass wir beispielsweise irgendwann einen einen Checkout Team haben, die sich nur darum kümmern, dass die Kunden sauber nicht ins Checkout kommen oder einen Team, das sich da halt wirklich nur darum kümmert, die Partnerprozesse.",{"text":38983,"start":19561,"end":19594},"Und das ist eigentlich so das, worauf ich hinarbeite und wo ich irgendwann sein möchte.",{"text":38985,"start":19597,"end":19679},"Und dann so wirklich 2, 3, 4 Entwickler, 'n Produktmanagement dazu und dann halt ein, 2, 3 relevante Leute aus der Businessseite und die sitzen da wirklich zusammen und arbeiten täglich an dem Problem.",{"sentences":38987,"speaker":149,"num_words":37739,"start":19682,"end":19725},[38988],{"text":38989,"start":19682,"end":19725},"Ist das Produktmanagement bei euch orchartsmäßig Teil von der Developmentabteilung oder wie habt ihr das aufgebaut?",{"sentences":38991,"speaker":593,"num_words":37727,"start":19728,"end":19779},[38992,38994],{"text":38993,"start":19728,"end":19775},"Ja, also das hängt mit bei mir, ne, und dementsprechend haben wir das immer zusammen betrachtet und als zusammengehörig gesehen.",{"text":19780,"start":19778,"end":19779},{"sentences":38996,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":19782,"end":19842},[38997,38999],{"text":38998,"start":19782,"end":19787},"cool, cool.",{"text":39000,"start":19789,"end":19842},"Und wenn Du sagst, mit noch Businessmenschen dann zusammen, also Accountmanagement oder was was was was was was was",{"sentences":39002,"speaker":593,"num_words":37958,"start":19845,"end":19863},[39003,39005],{"text":39004,"start":19845,"end":19859},"Accountmanagement oder Endkundensupport, Vertrieb, Marketing.",{"text":4881,"start":19862,"end":19863},{"sentences":39007,"speaker":128,"num_words":39010,"start":19863,"end":19950},[39008],{"text":39009,"start":19863,"end":19950},"Und cross funktional heißt dann für dich nicht, dass die Entwickler verschiedene Aufgaben übernehmen, sondern dass die Teams so strukturiert sind, dass verschiedene Funktionen zusammensitzen und einfach effizienter zusammenarbeiten können an dem Thema, was sie haben.",36,{"sentences":39012,"speaker":593,"num_words":38527,"start":19952,"end":20126},[39013,39014,39016],{"text":2093,"start":19952,"end":19953},{"text":39015,"start":19953,"end":20002},"Und dass Entwicklung sich weiter Entwicklung kümmert, allerdings halt in den gesamten Prozess schon sehr früh involviert ist, ne.",{"text":39017,"start":20002,"end":20126},"Also dass man nicht als Entwickler letztlich das fertig ausformulierte Ticket bekommt und eigentlich das nur noch Sturmwohntag programmiert, sondern dann halt letztlich in der Discoveryphase, wie wir das bei uns nennen, Taschen von Anfang an mit drin ist und entsprechend die technischen Aspekte auch mit einbringen kann.",{"sentences":39019,"speaker":149,"num_words":39029,"start":20128,"end":20275},[39020,39022,39023,39025,39027],{"text":39021,"start":20128,"end":20145},"Jetzt hast Du AI einmal schon angesprochen.",{"text":2453,"start":20148,"end":20149},{"text":39024,"start":20151,"end":20171},"Aus welcher Brille guckt ihr da drauf?",{"text":39026,"start":20171,"end":20237},"Also man kann es ja intern nutzen für, weiß nicht, ne, Coding Agent oder eben Customer Support irgendwie da da in der Hilfe.",{"text":39028,"start":20240,"end":20275},"Man kann es irgendwie sehen für, ich helf dich hier durch deinen Autokonfigurator durch.",52,{"sentences":39031,"speaker":149,"num_words":39036,"start":20279,"end":20350},[39032,39034],{"text":39033,"start":20279,"end":20330},"Oder auch, Stichwort E-Commerce, so Gentic-Commerce, was ja grad noch so in den ganz frühen Babyschuhen steckt.",{"text":39035,"start":20333,"end":20350},"Was ist da für euch aktuell am relevantesten?",25,{"sentences":39038,"speaker":593,"num_words":39045,"start":20354,"end":20741},[39039,39041,39043],{"text":39040,"start":20354,"end":20595},"Aktuell ist es tatsächlich die, ich sag mal, das vorhandene Team 'n bisschen zu enablen, Also grade im am stärksten ist es grade bei uns im Endkundensupport, ne, wo wir da wirklich auf auch Voice Agents setzen, die dann halt am Telefon mit den Kunden erst mal sprechen, im Rezension Prozess, aber auch im, im, sagen wir mal, Chatbot, der auf der Webseite ist und der Kunde irgendwelche Fragen hat, dass wir den permanent erweitern und der halt so intelligent ist, dass er dann tatsächlich auch in Richtung Autobater, Kaufberater geht, ne.",{"text":39042,"start":20595,"end":20656},"Und daneben schauen wir jetzt einfach, dass wir andere Prozesse automatisieren und mit KI ausbauen, zum Beispiel im Discovery Prozess im Produktmanagement.",{"text":39044,"start":20659,"end":20741},"Dass man sagt, okay, da muss nicht in erster Instanz immer der Stakeholder mit dem Produktmanager reden, sondern da kann auch erst mal der Stakeholder mit dem Agenten reden und das quasi schon mal anreichern.",149,{"sentences":39047,"speaker":149,"num_words":37905,"start":20745,"end":20985},[39048,39050,39052,39054,39056],{"text":39049,"start":20745,"end":20758},"Wie, wie formuliert man das?",{"text":39051,"start":20758,"end":20794},"Wie konservativ seid ihr bei dem Rollout von so grade Customer Facing Featuren?",{"text":39053,"start":20794,"end":20921},"Es gab ja, ich glaub, letztes Jahr war's diese lustige Geschichte, wo irgendwie son dieser Chavy Bot son Taho für irgendwie ein Dollar verkauft hat, weil der Typ den Chatbot einfach so lange bearbeitet hat, bis er ihm das rechtlich bindend zugesichert hat, ja.",{"text":39055,"start":20923,"end":20972},"Und das ist ja bei den Werten und Gütern, die ihr so verschiebt, schon auch kein leichtes Thema, ja.",{"text":39057,"start":20972,"end":20985},"Wie wie guckt ihr da drauf?",{"sentences":39059,"speaker":593,"num_words":39068,"start":20987,"end":21179},[39060,39062,39064,39066],{"text":39061,"start":20987,"end":21060},"Also sie sind ja tatsächlich sehr offen, ne, und probieren da lieber mehr aus als weniger, ne, weil letztlich der rechtlich bindende Teil kommt ja dann erst in Buchungsprozess, ne.",{"text":39063,"start":21060,"end":21094},"Und wenn der dann abgeschlossen ist, von daher haben wir da erst wenig Schmerzen.",{"text":39065,"start":21097,"end":21159},"Klar ist es jetzt nicht ideal, wenn denn der Chatbot da irgendwas Falsches erzählt und der tatsächliche menschliche Mitarbeiter das am Ende ausbaden muss.",{"text":39067,"start":21159,"end":21179},"Aber wir probieren ja lieber mehr aus als weniger.",77,{"sentences":39070,"speaker":149,"num_words":39068,"start":21182,"end":21375},[39071,39072,39074,39076,39078],{"text":2453,"start":21182,"end":21183},{"text":39073,"start":21186,"end":21240},"Und Du sagst, der der Chatbot erzählt was Falsches und der Mitarbeiter muss es ausbaden, wie Überwachen ist das falsche Wort.",{"text":39075,"start":21243,"end":21275},"Ich ich such so dann 'n bisschen das das analog zur Telemetrie, ne.",{"text":39077,"start":21275,"end":21334},"Also wenn Du jetzt so deinen deinen Bot da deployed hast oder andere Features, wie schaut ihr da drauf, zu gucken, funktioniert das auch, ne?",{"text":39079,"start":21334,"end":21375},"Sagen die was Richtiges oder fand da, sind die nur so den ganzen Tag vor sich hin?",{"sentences":39081,"speaker":593,"num_words":38269,"start":21378,"end":21505},[39082,39084],{"text":39083,"start":21378,"end":21458},"Na, wir kriegen das ganz gut mit, weil das sehr intensiv monitoren, plötzlich dann also die KI dahinter, die labelt dann auch die ganzen Gespräche, guckt, ne, wie ist das ausgegangen?",{"text":39085,"start":21462,"end":21505},"Und entsprechend können wir das eigentlich ganz gut eingrenzen, wenn da was schiefläuft und sehen das eigentlich relativ gut.",{"sentences":39087,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":21505,"end":21511},[39088,39089],{"text":2453,"start":21505,"end":21507},{"text":4881,"start":21510,"end":21511},{"sentences":39091,"speaker":593,"num_words":37691,"start":21514,"end":21592},[39092,39093,39094,39096],{"text":4690,"start":21514,"end":21515},{"text":4255,"start":21515,"end":21518},{"text":39095,"start":21518,"end":21551},"Und letztlich haben wir dann auch irgendwo immer die Eskalation zum Menschen, ne.",{"text":39097,"start":21551,"end":21592},"Also wenn dann irgendwas nicht weiterkommt, dann ist der Weg zum tatsächlichen menschlichen Mitarbeiter auch nicht weit.",{"sentences":39099,"speaker":149,"num_words":37925,"start":21595,"end":21688},[39100,39102,39104,39106],{"text":39101,"start":21595,"end":21633},"Und beim Thema AI muss man in Deutschland auch immer fragen so, betreibt ihr da irgendwas selbst?",{"text":39103,"start":21633,"end":21649},"Nutzt ihr irgend 'n offenes Modell?",{"text":39105,"start":21652,"end":21672},"Seid ihr einfach in Anführungszeichen Open AI Kunde?",{"text":39107,"start":21675,"end":21688},"Für was habt ihr euch da entschieden?",{"sentences":39109,"speaker":593,"num_words":39120,"start":21690,"end":21812},[39110,39112,39114,39116,39118],{"text":39111,"start":21690,"end":21730},"Also wir sind Kunde bei den 3 Großen, ne, von Antropic, Gemini und Open AI.",{"text":39113,"start":21733,"end":21740},"Die nutzen wir da.",{"text":39115,"start":21740,"end":21766},"Wir haben uns derzeit einen NHN aufgesetzt, ne.",{"text":39117,"start":21766,"end":21783},"Das betreiben wir in unserer eigenen Infrastruktur.",{"text":39119,"start":21786,"end":21812},"Und ansonsten nutzen wir aber nur die, wie gesagt, diese 3 großen Anbieter.",47,{"sentences":39122,"speaker":149,"num_words":39125,"start":21815,"end":21877},[39123],{"text":39124,"start":21815,"end":21877},"Und das NHN, also für alle da draußen ist ja son, ich glaub eigentlich mal gestartet als son reines Automatisierungstool mittlerweile mit 'nem großen AI Fokus.",26,{"sentences":39127,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":21877,"end":21880},[39128],{"text":4255,"start":21877,"end":21880},{"sentences":39130,"speaker":149,"num_words":37825,"start":21883,"end":21913},[39131],{"text":39132,"start":21883,"end":21913},"Das nutzt ihr für Produktiv Workflows oder für eure internen Prozesse?",{"sentences":39134,"speaker":593,"num_words":39010,"start":21917,"end":22015},[39135,39137,39139,39141,39143],{"text":39136,"start":21917,"end":21927},"Sowohl als auch, ne.",{"text":39138,"start":21927,"end":21976},"Also zum Beispiel dieser Endkunden Chatbot, der der Workflow ist dann NLN abgebildet und entsprechend dort auch konfiguriert.",{"text":39140,"start":21979,"end":22002},"Und wir nutzen das aber auch intern für Automatisierung, ne.",{"text":39142,"start":22002,"end":22008},"Also Was?",{"text":39144,"start":22008,"end":22015},"Ja, genau.",{"sentences":39146,"speaker":149,"num_words":37958,"start":22017,"end":22035},[39147,39149],{"text":39148,"start":22017,"end":22028},"Coole Sache, coole Sache.",{"text":39150,"start":22028,"end":22035},"Weil wir",{"sentences":39152,"speaker":593,"num_words":37918,"start":22035,"end":22179},[39153,39155,39157],{"text":39154,"start":22035,"end":22070},"kommen da Also angefangen mit Sapia, ne, das geht ja auch in die Richtung.",{"text":39156,"start":22073,"end":22104},"Sind dann irgendwann zu make, weil das von der Bedienung intuitiver war.",{"text":39158,"start":22106,"end":22179},"Und jetzt aber in dem KI Wandel, in dem man sich halt einfach grade befindet, dass NETN einfach der Platzhirsch, ne, der da am flexibelsten ist und am besten zugänglich.",{"sentences":39160,"speaker":149,"num_words":38119,"start":22181,"end":22272},[39161,39163,39164],{"text":39162,"start":22181,"end":22261},"Und ehrlicherweise auch dadurch, dass man die auch gut selber betreiben kann, also also grade so Sapia und Make, die haben ja 'n ein horrendes Kostenmodell so hinten raus, ja.",{"text":4255,"start":22261,"end":22263},{"text":39165,"start":22263,"end":22272},"Also ist ja",{"sentences":39167,"speaker":128,"num_words":38859,"start":22272,"end":22287},[39168,39170,39171],{"text":39169,"start":22272,"end":22280},"auch nicht billig.",{"text":4255,"start":22283,"end":22284},{"text":4255,"start":22286,"end":22287},{"sentences":39173,"speaker":149,"num_words":37739,"start":22290,"end":22335},[39174,39175,39176,39177],{"text":4881,"start":22290,"end":22291},{"text":22299,"start":22295,"end":22296},{"text":4255,"start":22301,"end":22302},{"text":39178,"start":22304,"end":22335},"Es sah grade bei mir so aus, als wolltest Du eine Frage stellen.",{"sentences":39180,"speaker":128,"num_words":38905,"start":22338,"end":22425},[39181,39183,39185,39187,39188],{"text":39182,"start":22338,"end":22351},"Ich will auch eine Frage stellen.",{"text":39184,"start":22351,"end":22376},"Ich weiß gar nicht so genau, wie gut die hier reinpasst.",{"text":39186,"start":22376,"end":22404},"Ich hab online gelesen, dass Fahren so Fahrennights macht.",{"text":4255,"start":22407,"end":22408},{"text":39189,"start":22408,"end":22425},"Und ich hab mich gesagt Sorry,",{"sentences":39191,"speaker":149,"num_words":39198,"start":22425,"end":22455},[39192,39194,39196],{"text":39193,"start":22425,"end":22431},"war was?",{"text":39195,"start":22431,"end":22447},"Ich hab das, Du hast mich verloren.",{"text":39197,"start":22447,"end":22455},"Was macht Fahren?",12,{"sentences":39200,"speaker":128,"num_words":38017,"start":22459,"end":22508},[39201,39202,39204,39206],{"text":22462,"start":22459,"end":22460},{"text":39203,"start":22465,"end":22471},"Ach, Neid.",{"text":39205,"start":22471,"end":22487},"Das heißt, einfach Fahren Neid.",{"text":39207,"start":22489,"end":22508},"Und ihr macht das irgendwie seit 3 Jahren Ist",{"sentences":39209,"speaker":149,"num_words":39198,"start":22508,"end":22544},[39210,39212,39214],{"text":39211,"start":22508,"end":22523},"das eine Anspruch auf Fahrenheit?",{"text":39213,"start":22523,"end":22539},"Ich bin ja komplett raus grade.",{"text":5901,"start":22543,"end":22544},{"sentences":39216,"speaker":593,"num_words":37825,"start":22547,"end":22572},[39217],{"text":39218,"start":22547,"end":22572},"Ich kann ja vielleicht einfach kurz erläutern, was das ist dann",{"sentences":39220,"speaker":128,"num_words":37722,"start":22575,"end":22585},[39221],{"text":39222,"start":22575,"end":22585},"Sehr gerne, sehr gerne.",{"sentences":39224,"speaker":593,"num_words":38280,"start":22587,"end":22656},[39225],{"text":39226,"start":22587,"end":22656},"Nee, also wir, unser Bestreben ist ja auch, also auch in unserem Interesse, dass wir halt in der Automotive Branche in Deutschland halt entsprechend auch gut bekannt sind.",{"sentences":39228,"speaker":149,"num_words":37712,"start":22656,"end":22664},[39229,39230],{"text":2453,"start":22656,"end":22658},{"text":39231,"start":22661,"end":22664},"Ja, und",{"sentences":39233,"speaker":593,"num_words":38488,"start":22664,"end":22875},[39234,39236,39238,39240,39242],{"text":39235,"start":22664,"end":22690},"das ist ja auch letztlich das oberste Ziel von unserem Vertriebschef.",{"text":39237,"start":22693,"end":22794},"Und da haben wir jetzt vor 3 Jahren das erste Mal eine Fahrenneid, also quasi wirklich 'n Abend, aus dem wir dann aus der Händlerschaft, aus der Automotive Branche, sag ich mal, die die Topp Leute einladen, ne.",{"text":39239,"start":22794,"end":22825},"Und dann gibt's quasi einen Abend lang Essen und Getränke auffahren.",{"text":39241,"start":22829,"end":22871},"Und einfach, dass wir da son son Networking Event schaffen, bei dem wir uns natürlich auch platzieren.",{"text":2453,"start":22874,"end":22875},{"sentences":39244,"speaker":593,"num_words":38017,"start":22875,"end":22918},[39245,39247],{"text":39246,"start":22875,"end":22913},"Und aber einfach Leute zusammenbringen, mit denen wir dann hoffentlich auch irgendwie in eine Kooperation gehen.",{"text":22919,"start":22917,"end":22918},{"sentences":39249,"speaker":128,"num_words":38044,"start":22918,"end":23047},[39250,39252,39253,39255],{"text":39251,"start":22918,"end":23008},"Ah, okay, da kommen also eher, also jetzt da kommen jetzt keine Konkurrenten zu euch, sondern eher Händler, Leute, die einfach in der in dem Business unterwegs sind, die auch Kunden für euch sein könnten sozusagen.",{"text":2093,"start":23012,"end":23013},{"text":39254,"start":23013,"end":23040},"Oder Geschäftspartner sind ja keine Kunden, das sind eher Ja.",{"text":39256,"start":23042,"end":23047},"Geschäftspartner, ne.",{"sentences":39258,"speaker":149,"num_words":38103,"start":23050,"end":23069},[39259],{"text":39260,"start":23050,"end":23069},"Macht ihr das so oder wie betreibt ihr das?",{"sentences":39262,"speaker":593,"num_words":39268,"start":23071,"end":23164},[39263,39265,39267],{"text":39264,"start":23071,"end":23082},"Ja, ist eine gute Frage.",{"text":39266,"start":23082,"end":23161},"Nee, wir haben am Anfang war's mittlerweile haben wir's son bisschen geöffnet, dass man sich auch so Tickets kaufen kann, aber es ist schon eine sehr ausgelesene Gruppe, sag ich mal.",{"text":2453,"start":23161,"end":23164},37,{"sentences":39270,"speaker":128,"num_words":39268,"start":23166,"end":23253},[39271,39273],{"text":39272,"start":23166,"end":23220},"Und was ich da sehr spannend fand, ihr habt ja kein richtiges Programm dabei, also ihr habt jetzt keine Vorträge oder so was.",{"text":39274,"start":23220,"end":23253},"Und hab also ich hab aber gelesen, dass ihr trotzdem versucht, den Austausch sehr",{"sentences":39276,"speaker":149,"num_words":38476,"start":23255,"end":23301},[39277,39279],{"text":39278,"start":23255,"end":23283},"Ich glaub, was Garald sagen will, ist, er wär gerne mal dabei.",{"text":39280,"start":23285,"end":23301},"Ich wär sehr gerne mal dabei, weil also",{"sentences":39282,"speaker":128,"num_words":38916,"start":23303,"end":23437},[39283,39285,39287],{"text":39284,"start":23303,"end":23398},"es also ich frag mich, wie ihr das macht, weil es ist denn, also funktioniert das einfach, wenn man sagt, okay, wir setzen interessante Leute an einen Tisch und sagen, hier ist Essen und Trinken und redet mal.",{"text":39286,"start":23398,"end":23424},"Oder überlegt ihr euch dann auch Themen, über die man sprechen kann?",{"text":39288,"start":23424,"end":23437},"Bereitet ihr da irgendwas vor?",{"sentences":39290,"speaker":593,"num_words":392,"start":23440,"end":23519},[39291,39293],{"text":39292,"start":23440,"end":23491},"Also das ist tatsächlich im Hintergrund in den Kulissen schon ziemlich hart durchgetaktet und auch kurierbar, sag ich mal.",{"text":39294,"start":23493,"end":23519},"Also wir werden da immer alle geimpft von unserem Vertriebler und",{"sentences":39296,"speaker":149,"num_words":37958,"start":23522,"end":23536},[39297],{"text":39298,"start":23522,"end":23536},"Heute reden wir nur über XYZ.",{"sentences":39300,"speaker":593,"num_words":38244,"start":23539,"end":23785},[39301,39303,39305,39307,39309],{"text":39302,"start":23539,"end":23613},"Ja und dann auch wirklich, okay, gehen wir mal bitte auf den zu, der der kommt, reden wir mit dem, weil der hat, keine Ahnung, irgendwelche technischen Probleme, ne, in letzter Zeit immer gehabt.",{"text":39304,"start":23613,"end":23638},"Oder hier ist jemand, der will irgendwie eine tiefere Integration haben.",{"text":39306,"start":23638,"end":23683},"Oder das ist 1, der könnte potenzieller, ich sag mal, Zusatzdienstlast sein für Auslieferung oder Versicherungsprodukte.",{"text":39308,"start":23687,"end":23714},"Und dann schnappt man sich die halt schon auch dediziert, ne.",{"text":39310,"start":23714,"end":23785},"Muss man dann so als Also ist jetzt nicht ist jetzt nicht das gesamte Fahrenteam dabei, sondern ist dann eher so Teamlead, Produktmanagement und so was sind dabei.",{"sentences":39312,"speaker":593,"num_words":39036,"start":23785,"end":23851},[39313,39315,39317],{"text":39314,"start":23785,"end":23794},"Jetzt nicht jeder Entwickler.",{"text":39316,"start":23797,"end":23836},"Und da muss man halt über seinen Schatten springen und dann mit den Leuten reden, ne.",{"text":39318,"start":23836,"end":23851},"Das ist dann Vertriebsarbeit, ja.",{"sentences":39320,"speaker":128,"num_words":392,"start":23853,"end":23919},[39321,39323],{"text":39322,"start":23853,"end":23873},"Okay, aber es geht schon auch viel über technische Themen.",{"text":39324,"start":23873,"end":23919},"Also Du bist dann dafür da, also an dem Abend da, mit Leuten über die technische Seite auch zu sprechen.",{"sentences":39326,"speaker":593,"num_words":38144,"start":23922,"end":24025},[39327,39329,39331],{"text":39328,"start":23922,"end":23936},"Ja, sagen wir, Produktthemen, ne.",{"text":39330,"start":23936,"end":24021},"Technisch wäre, glaub ich, zu tief, weil die Leute, die dann aus der Autobranche da sind, die sind nicht technisch affin oder nicht tief genug drin in den technischen Themen, aber so produktseitig auf jeden Fall.",{"text":4881,"start":24024,"end":24025},{"sentences":39333,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":24027,"end":24047},[39334,39336,39337],{"text":39335,"start":24027,"end":24040},"Ja, Cari, Du Jan.",{"text":4881,"start":24040,"end":24044},{"text":635,"start":24044,"end":24047},{"sentences":39339,"speaker":149,"num_words":39348,"start":24050,"end":24297},[39340,39342,39344,39346],{"text":39341,"start":24050,"end":24086},"war ja grade 'n gutes Beispiel dafür, wie wie wichtig so Zusammenkommen irgendwie auch ist, ja.",{"text":39343,"start":24088,"end":24131},"Und ihr habt ja, als ihr vor 8 Jahren dann gestartet seid, war das ja auch noch vor Corona.",{"text":39345,"start":24134,"end":24264},"Wie habt ihr so Corona erlebt und und überlebt als dann son doch noch recht junges Unternehmen irgendwie auch mit alle arbeiten auf einmal nur noch von zu Hause oder habt ihr das oder habt ihr doch weiter zusammengearbeitet, weil ihr noch gar nicht zu groß wart, als dass das irgendwie kritisch war?",{"text":39347,"start":24267,"end":24297},"Wie haben sich da eure Prozesse umgestellt und wie lebt ihr das heute?",101,{"sentences":39350,"speaker":593,"num_words":39361,"start":24300,"end":24526},[39351,39353,39355,39357,39359],{"text":39352,"start":24300,"end":24353},"Also wir waren damals, jetzt muss ich kurz überlegen, damals waren wir tatsächlich alle on Zeit, also alle im Raum Würzburg.",{"text":39354,"start":24353,"end":24371},"Also wir saßen eigentlich immer zusammen im Büro.",{"text":39356,"start":24374,"end":24402},"Das haben wir auch versucht, über Corona hinweg so aufrecht zu halten.",{"text":39358,"start":24405,"end":24456},"Hat uns dann aber nach der Coronazeit schon trotzdem auch geholfen, weil wir dann trotzdem mehr digital auch mal gesprochen haben.",{"text":39360,"start":24456,"end":24526},"Und nach Corona, als wir dann auch das Deft Team weiter ausgebaut haben, haben wir dann schon auch nicht nur im Raum Würzburg geguckt, sondern dann auch weiter weg, ne.",92,{"sentences":39363,"speaker":593,"num_words":39374,"start":24526,"end":24833},[39364,39366,39368,39370,39372],{"text":39365,"start":24526,"end":24580},"Also durch die 2 Developer, die wir damals hatten, hatten wir dann Connections zu anderen, denen aber mehr in Richtung Köln saßen.",{"text":39367,"start":24583,"end":24617},"Und dann war ruckzuck eigentlich das Developmentteam hybrid oder eigentlich mehr remote, ne.",{"text":39369,"start":24617,"end":24727},"Und das hat sich dann auch son bisschen über die gesamte Firma weiterentwickelt, weil grade dann, was sogar Accountmanagement angeht und Vertrieb, das ist ja dann sind auch keine Leute, die jeden Tag im Büro sitzen, sondern die eher unterwegs sind und die Termine mit den Partnern haben.",{"text":39371,"start":24729,"end":24791},"Und jetzt mittlerweile ist es halt wirklich son Hybridansatz, wobei wir schon ja, Hybridansatz, Punkt, ja, mit seinen Vor- und Nachteilen, ne.",{"text":39373,"start":24791,"end":24833},"Also grade was so die Kommunikation, das Einbinden der Remoteler angeht, das ist nicht immer einfach.",121,{"sentences":39376,"speaker":593,"num_words":37739,"start":24837,"end":24875},[39377],{"text":39378,"start":24837,"end":24875},"Und auch quasi immer wären eine Baustelle, an der man immer wieder verbessern und ausbauen kann.",{"sentences":39380,"speaker":149,"num_words":37778,"start":24877,"end":25033},[39381,39383],{"text":39382,"start":24877,"end":24907},"Aber es ist schon euer erklärtes Ziel, das also die das zu erhalten.",{"text":39384,"start":24910,"end":25033},"Und jetzt nicht zu sagen, na ja, wär uns eigentlich schon lieber, wenn prinzipiell die Leute wieder hier mehr im Büro wären oder eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr eigentlich wollen wir gar kein Büro und alle nur noch remote, sondern ihr ihr wollt dieses Hybride.",{"sentences":39386,"speaker":593,"num_words":39395,"start":25037,"end":25193},[39387,39389,39391,39393],{"text":39388,"start":25037,"end":25050},"Also wir wollen den Austausch, ne.",{"text":39390,"start":25050,"end":25118},"Wie wir da hinkommen, ist jetzt nicht, soll man die erste Frage beantworten und ist wirklich die der erste Punkt ist, dass wir den Austausch hinkriegen wollen.",{"text":39392,"start":25118,"end":25133},"Deswegen ja auch diese crossfunktionalen Teams.",{"text":39394,"start":25136,"end":25193},"Uns ist aber auch bewusst, dass wir in Würzburg sitzen und in Würzburg jetzt nicht, sagen wir mal, die Hochburg der Softwareentwickler ist.",62,{"sentences":39397,"speaker":149,"num_words":37825,"start":25193,"end":25223},[39398],{"text":39399,"start":25193,"end":25223},"Gut, das sagst Du jemanden, der grade in Bad Nauheim sitzt.",{"sentences":39401,"speaker":593,"num_words":38011,"start":25226,"end":25332},[39402],{"text":39403,"start":25226,"end":25332},"Ja, und von daher müssen wir uns halt drauf einstellen, dass die Entwickler oder auch andere Spezialisten, das ist ja nicht nur die Softwareentwicklung, dann einfach nicht in Würzburg zu finden sind, sondern dann doch auch Richtung Ruhrgebiet Berlin, Hamburg, München.",{"sentences":39405,"speaker":149,"num_words":38171,"start":25335,"end":25489},[39406,39408,39409,39411],{"text":39407,"start":25335,"end":25402},"Wenn ihr, also auch wenn ihr jetzt keine klassischen Autohändler seid, hängt ihr ja am Ende doch son bisschen an der Autoindustrie als Ganzes so mit dran.",{"text":2453,"start":25402,"end":25405},{"text":39410,"start":25407,"end":25432},"Das heißt, alle ups and Downs erlebt ihr sozusagen mit.",{"text":39412,"start":25436,"end":25489},"Ist es so volatil, wie ich mir das von außen manchmal vorstelle oder ist das doch eigentlich eher 'n relativ gleichbleibendes Geschäft?",{"sentences":39414,"speaker":593,"num_words":39425,"start":25492,"end":25765},[39415,39417,39419,39421,39423],{"text":39416,"start":25492,"end":25505},"Nee, man kriegt das schon mit.",{"text":39418,"start":25505,"end":25621},"Also wobei uns das oft in die Karten gespielt hat, also jetzt Beispiel auch in Coronazeit, viele der Endkunden haben sich gedacht, okay, ich kann mir jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n Auto finanzieren auf 5 Jahre, weil ich einfach nicht weiß, wo mein Job ist, ja, in den nächsten Monaten.",{"text":39420,"start":25624,"end":25718},"Und dann waren halt diese kurzfristigen Geschäftsmodelle wie jetzt Abo tatsächlich sehr, sehr beliebt, weil dann viele gesagt haben, okay, dann nehm ich lieber 'n Abo mit 'ner Laufzeit von 6 Monaten, ne, was ich dann weiterfahren kann.",{"text":39422,"start":25720,"end":25738},"Aber ich kann's aber auch schnell abstoßen, ne.",{"text":39424,"start":25738,"end":25765},"Und dann hatten wir in der Corona eigentlich 'n Stück weit Aufwind.",113,{"sentences":39427,"speaker":593,"num_words":38819,"start":25769,"end":25941},[39428,39430,39432],{"text":39429,"start":25769,"end":25859},"Und auch wenn wir jetzt in der Automobilbranche eine Überproduktion haben oder die Händler die Fahrzeuge noch nicht loswerden, weil's wirtschaftlich irgendwie grade nicht so gut läuft, dann sind wir halt einfach 'n weiterer Vertriebskanal, ne.",{"text":39431,"start":25859,"end":25916},"Auf der anderen Seite, wenn dann halt viel Absatz da ist, dann müssen wir halt auch gucken, wo wir dann unsere Fahrzeuge herbekommen, ne.",{"text":39433,"start":25916,"end":25941},"Das ist dann schon son bisschen ja, immer hin und her.",{"sentences":39435,"speaker":149,"num_words":39443,"start":25944,"end":26071},[39436,39438,39440,39441],{"text":39437,"start":25944,"end":25957},"Also es es klingt fast antizyklisch.",{"text":39439,"start":25961,"end":26019},"Sozusagen, na ja, wenn wenn wenn's bei der Automobilindustrie im Großen grade nicht so super läuft, dann ist es für uns vielleicht 'n bisschen einfacher.",{"text":2453,"start":26019,"end":26022},{"text":39442,"start":26025,"end":26071},"Und wenn's sehr gut läuft und die Autos irgendwie alle weg sind, dann wird's für uns vielleicht sogar 'n bisschen schwieriger.",53,{"sentences":39445,"speaker":593,"num_words":37958,"start":26074,"end":26086},[39446],{"text":39447,"start":26074,"end":26086},"Ja, ja, kann man durchaus sagen.",{"sentences":39449,"speaker":128,"num_words":593,"start":26089,"end":26095},[39450,39451],{"text":26092,"start":26089,"end":26090},{"text":4690,"start":26094,"end":26095},{"sentences":39453,"speaker":149,"num_words":39120,"start":26097,"end":26223},[39454,39456],{"text":39455,"start":26097,"end":26143},"Ist das was, was so im im Team insgesamt bei euch ankommt, wahrgenommen wird oder eine Rolle spielt?",{"text":39457,"start":26143,"end":26223},"Oder ist das eher so für euch, in der Geschäftsführung relevant, da ab und zu mal draufzuschauen, aber beim Rest kommt da eigentlich überhaupt keine Nervosität oder Spannung an?",{"sentences":39459,"speaker":593,"num_words":37879,"start":26225,"end":26382},[39460,39462,39464,39466],{"text":39461,"start":26225,"end":26259},"Nee, wir versuchen das schon transparent zu gestalten, also dass jeder wirklich Bescheid weiß.",{"text":39463,"start":26262,"end":26302},"Weil halt also supply, sprich also die Fahrzeuge, die wir bei uns haben, ist ja 'n großes Thema.",{"text":39465,"start":26302,"end":26355},"Weil je mehr Angebote wir aufm Marktplatz haben, desto mehr Kunden kommen zu uns und finden das passende Angebot für sich.",{"text":39467,"start":26358,"end":26382},"Und von daher ist es 'n Thema, was wir sehr, sehr hochhalten,",{"sentences":39469,"speaker":149,"num_words":39425,"start":26386,"end":26659},[39470,39471,39473,39475,39477],{"text":1851,"start":26386,"end":26387},{"text":39472,"start":26391,"end":26402},"Transparenz ist 'n gutes Stichwort.",{"text":39474,"start":26405,"end":26531},"Ich glaube, grade in jungen Unternehmen ist es ja auch vielleicht am Anfang 'n bisschen schwierig, die ersten paar Leute einzustellen, weil da ja natürlich son gewisses Commitment mitkommt zu 'nem zu 'ner Firma, zu 'nem Partner, von dem man ja noch gar nicht weiß, so, gibt's den in 'nem Jahr überhaupt noch so, ne.",{"text":39476,"start":26531,"end":26566},"Also grade die ersten paar Haieers stellen sich die Frage ja schon zurecht auch.",{"text":39478,"start":26569,"end":26659},"Wie macht ihr das jetzt son paar Jahre später, wie wie transparent, also nicht, dass ihr was geheim walten wolltet oder so was, ne, aber wie wie transparent seid ihr so mit mit mit Kennzahlen, mit mit KPIs?",{"sentences":39480,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":26659,"end":26711},[39481,39483],{"text":39482,"start":26659,"end":26690},"Wie interessiert sind da auch die Mitarbeiter überhaupt noch mittlerweile bei soner Größenordnung?",{"text":39484,"start":26694,"end":26711},"Wie wie holt ihr da das Team ab?",{"sentences":39486,"speaker":593,"num_words":39068,"start":26714,"end":26905},[39487,39489,39491],{"text":39488,"start":26714,"end":26818},"Also die Mitarbeiter sind da sehr interessiert an den Zahlen und wir machen regelmäßig Townhools, wo wir dann wirklich auch konkret sagen, das waren unsere Ziele, ne, dass da stehen wir aber jetzt, sowohl auf der Umsatzseite als auch auf der Kostenseite.",{"text":39490,"start":26821,"end":26885},"Ich mein, wir zeigen jetzt keinen Kontostand, ne, aber letztlich versuchen wir ja schon so transparent zu sein, dass bei jedem auch klar ist, wo wir grade stehen.",{"text":39492,"start":26885,"end":26905},"Also dass da keine Traumschlösser entstehen irgendwie.",{"sentences":39494,"speaker":149,"num_words":37807,"start":26908,"end":27063},[39495,39497,39499,39501,39503],{"text":39496,"start":26908,"end":26916},"Das mein ich dann.",{"text":39498,"start":26916,"end":26939},"Ich glaub, das ist halt auch so das Interessante, ne.",{"text":39500,"start":26939,"end":26986},"Hast Du, wenn Du in der Firma arbeitest, irgendwie 'n Verständnis davon, ob's dir grade gut oder schlecht geht.",{"text":39502,"start":26986,"end":27051},"Du musst jetzt nicht wissen, wir haben hier zweieinhalb Millionen Euro auf der hohen Kante und wir verbrennen davon irgendwie 200000 im Monat so.",{"text":39504,"start":27051,"end":27063},"Runway ist dementsprechend klar.",{"sentences":39506,"speaker":149,"num_words":37691,"start":27066,"end":27143},[39507,39508,39510,39512],{"text":4255,"start":27066,"end":27067},{"text":39509,"start":27067,"end":27101},"Aber einfach so zu wissen, geht's uns grade gut oder geht's uns grade schlecht, ja.",{"text":39511,"start":27103,"end":27122},"Und kann ja auch alles verschiedene Abstufungen haben.",{"text":39513,"start":27125,"end":27143},"Das ist, glaub ich, schon wichtig für viele.",{"sentences":39515,"speaker":593,"num_words":38423,"start":27143,"end":27330},[39516,39518,39520,39521],{"text":39517,"start":27143,"end":27189},"Also unsere Erfahrung war auch einfach, wenn man die Transparenz zeigt, dann motiviert das auch die Mitarbeiter.",{"text":39519,"start":27192,"end":27315},"Also wenn man quasi weiß, wofür man jetzt das hier grade macht, ne, wenn man weiß als Entwickler beispielsweise, dass ich jetzt nicht grade refactoring kann, weil wir jetzt unbedingt irgendwas machen müssen, damit der Umsatz die Umsatzziele erreicht sind, dann ist das anders motivieren, als wenn man quasi dumm gehalten wird, ne.",{"text":4255,"start":27315,"end":27318},{"text":39522,"start":27318,"end":27330},"Und das ist einfach schädlich.",{"sentences":39524,"speaker":149,"num_words":38226,"start":27333,"end":27366},[39525],{"text":39526,"start":27333,"end":27366},"Ich hab am Anfang gar nicht gefragt, aber habt ihr das selbstfinanziert oder fremdfinanziert?",{"sentences":39528,"speaker":593,"num_words":37722,"start":27369,"end":27377},[39529],{"text":39530,"start":27369,"end":27377},"Nee, wir sind fremdfinanziert.",{"sentences":39532,"speaker":149,"num_words":38449,"start":27380,"end":27437},[39533,39534,39535],{"text":4881,"start":27380,"end":27381},{"text":4881,"start":27381,"end":27384},{"text":39536,"start":27384,"end":27437},"Du hast ja das ist ja aber auch was, was für für Mitarbeiter auch erst mal erklärt werden muss stellenweise wahrscheinlich, ne?",{"sentences":39538,"speaker":593,"num_words":593,"start":27439,"end":27443},[39539,39540],{"text":4255,"start":27439,"end":27440},{"text":4255,"start":27440,"end":27443},{"sentences":39542,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":27447,"end":27454},[39543,39544],{"text":27451,"start":27447,"end":27448},{"text":27451,"start":27453,"end":27454},{"sentences":39546,"speaker":128,"num_words":39556,"start":27458,"end":27657},[39547,39549,39551,39553,39554],{"text":39548,"start":27458,"end":27493},"Ich komm mit noch vielleicht eher mal son paar persönlichen Fragen die Ecke.",{"text":39550,"start":27493,"end":27532},"Ich mein, das ist ja 'n CDO Special, also es geht ja auch irgendwie dich.",{"text":39552,"start":27535,"end":27594},"Und deswegen, wir hatten eben schon das Thema so, dass sich deine Aufgabenfeld verändert hat und Du eigentlich ja auch eher als Entwickler gestartet bist.",{"text":2453,"start":27594,"end":27596},{"text":39555,"start":27599,"end":27657},"Was was sind denn für Aufgaben dazugekommen, die Du extrem überraschend gut fandest, wo Du dachtest, boah, das interessiert mich voll.",75,{"sentences":39558,"speaker":128,"num_words":38975,"start":27657,"end":27834},[39559,39561,39563,39565,39567],{"text":39560,"start":27657,"end":27698},"Da hast Du dich voll reingehangen und fand das cool, dass Du diese neue Aufgabe bekommen hast.",{"text":39562,"start":27698,"end":27743},"Und wo gibt es auch Sachen, denen Du hinterher trauerst, weil Du jetzt einfach eine andere Rolle hast?",{"text":39564,"start":27747,"end":27776},"Und das Du bist ja auch son bisschen reingewachsen, glaub ich, ne.",{"text":39566,"start":27776,"end":27830},"Das entwickelt sich dann so und manchmal entscheidet man sich ja auch gar nicht so bewusst dafür, will ich das jetzt machen oder nicht.",{"text":2093,"start":27833,"end":27834},{"sentences":39569,"speaker":128,"num_words":37712,"start":27834,"end":27843},[39570],{"text":39571,"start":27834,"end":27843},"Genau, was, ja.",{"sentences":39573,"speaker":593,"num_words":39361,"start":27845,"end":28069},[39574,39576,39577,39579,39581],{"text":39575,"start":27845,"end":27898},"Nee, also son bisschen vermissen tu ich ab und an mal tatsächlich einfach das reine Coden, also wirklich einfach Softwareentwicklung betreiben.",{"text":2453,"start":27900,"end":27901},{"text":39578,"start":27903,"end":27967},"Cool fand ich jetzt aber so in dem Wandel einfach auch mal die Möglichkeit zu haben, mal jetzt eine neue Technologie zu nehmen, die KI beispielsweise, ne.",{"text":39580,"start":27967,"end":28051},"Was denn sonst irgendwie ist man halt als normaler Mitarbeiter, sag ich mal, dann doch abhängig davon, was die Firma entscheidet, ne, worauf die 'n Schwerpunkt legen und das kann ich jetzt halt mitgestalten, ne.",{"text":39582,"start":28051,"end":28069},"Also ich kann solche Sachen halt mit vorantreiben.",{"sentences":39584,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":28072,"end":28076},[39585,39586],{"text":2453,"start":28072,"end":28073},{"text":3951,"start":28073,"end":28076},{"sentences":39588,"speaker":593,"num_words":38340,"start":28076,"end":28316},[39589,39591,39593,39595,39597],{"text":39590,"start":28076,"end":28132},"dann eher nicht so mein Favorit ist, ist halt die zunehmende Anzahl an Meetings, die man dann halt einfach bewältigen muss.",{"text":39592,"start":28134,"end":28149},"Ja, aber es gehört halt dazu, ne.",{"text":39594,"start":28149,"end":28230},"Und ist halt, man muss sich dann auch irgendwann eingestehen, dass man jetzt in meinem Fall von der Softwareentwicklung einfach 'n Schritt zurücktritt, weil man dann oftmals auch im Weg steht, ne.",{"text":39596,"start":28230,"end":28241},"Tatsächlich hab ich das gemerkt.",{"text":39598,"start":28241,"end":28316},"Also wenn ich mir rausgenommen hab, ich bau jetzt an dem Feature mit, am Ende des Tages haben dann die Kollegen halt drauf gewartet, dass ich fertig werde.",{"sentences":39600,"speaker":593,"num_words":38369,"start":28316,"end":28471},[39601,39603],{"text":39602,"start":28316,"end":28366},"Und das Ende vom Lied war dann, ja okay, dann okay, mach Du's bitte fertig, ne, weil ich komm nicht dazu.",{"text":39604,"start":28368,"end":28471},"Und das dann sich einzugestehen, dass man dann wirklich auf der Entwicklungsseite mehr im Weg steht, also geh ich lieber, weiß nicht, mach was anderes, was dein Zielführender ist und das Team mehr voranbringt, das muss man dann irgendwie auch erst mal verinnerlichen.",{"sentences":39606,"speaker":149,"num_words":39036,"start":28474,"end":28541},[39607],{"text":39608,"start":28474,"end":28541},"Gibt es eine Aufgabe, ein Teilgebiet, das dazugekommen ist, auf das Du eigentlich so überhaupt gar keine Lust hast und mehr son notwendiges Übel ist?",{"sentences":39610,"speaker":593,"num_words":38916,"start":28544,"end":28682},[39611,39612,39614],{"text":5901,"start":28544,"end":28545},{"text":39613,"start":28545,"end":28569},"Also mittlerweile hab ich mich da mit allen Sachen arrangiert.",{"text":39615,"start":28572,"end":28682},"Also wie gesagt, so mehr in dieses auch mit den externen Partnern da mehr einzugehen, das war am Anfang 'n bisschen, ja, nicht so mein Hauptziel, ne oder das, was mir am meisten Spaß gemacht hat, aber mittlerweile bin ich da auch super angekommen.",{"sentences":39617,"speaker":149,"num_words":37722,"start":28685,"end":28694},[39618],{"text":39619,"start":28685,"end":28694},"Wie lernt man das?",{"sentences":39621,"speaker":593,"num_words":38044,"start":28696,"end":28820},[39622,39624,39626,39628],{"text":39623,"start":28696,"end":28725},"Ja, 'n Stück weit muss man dann die Pille einfach schlucken, ne.",{"text":39625,"start":28727,"end":28745},"Also manches kann man jetzt nicht groß lernen.",{"text":39627,"start":28745,"end":28770},"Man muss einfach akzeptieren, dass man dass das dazugehört.",{"text":39629,"start":28774,"end":28820},"Ja, und dann halt gucken, dass man sich da einbringt und das nicht einfach links liegen lässt und versucht wegzuignorieren.",{"sentences":39631,"speaker":128,"num_words":38159,"start":28824,"end":28916},[39632,39634,39636,39638],{"text":39633,"start":28824,"end":28841},"Und wie hast Du so neue Aufgaben gelernt?",{"text":39635,"start":28841,"end":28887},"Also ich mein, grade das Thema Leute einstellen, find ich, ist ja was ganz anderes als Sofa entwickeln.",{"text":39637,"start":28889,"end":28901},"Das ist ja auch nicht einfach.",{"text":39639,"start":28903,"end":28916},"Wie wie hast Du dich da so",{"sentences":39641,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":28918,"end":28971},[39642],{"text":39643,"start":28918,"end":28971},"Und den Druck noch mal gleich zu erhöhen, das sind ja auch sehr, sehr teure Fehler, die man da machen kann.",{"sentences":39645,"speaker":593,"num_words":37918,"start":28973,"end":29120},[39646,39647,39649,39651,39653],{"text":4255,"start":28973,"end":28974},{"text":39648,"start":28977,"end":28985},"Ja, boah, gute Frage.",{"text":39650,"start":28987,"end":29044},"Also letztlich einfach die, sagen wir, Stellenausschreibung gemacht und dann mit den Leuten sich zusammengesetzt in einen Call, dann die Erstgespräche geführt.",{"text":39652,"start":29048,"end":29078},"Und dann hat man schon gemerkt, okay, passt es menschlich, passt es fachlich irgendwo?",{"text":39654,"start":29081,"end":29120},"Und dann grade bei den Ersten war's wirklich auch dann 'n Sprung ins kalte Wasser.",{"sentences":39656,"speaker":593,"num_words":37765,"start":29120,"end":29169},[39657],{"text":39658,"start":29120,"end":29169},"Okay, dann dann nimmt man den halt mal mit, weil menschlich hat's gepasst, fachlich auf den ersten Eindruck auch.",{"sentences":39660,"speaker":149,"num_words":39268,"start":29171,"end":29269},[39661,39662,39664,39666,39668],{"text":2453,"start":29171,"end":29172},{"text":39663,"start":29172,"end":29191},"Wie sieht euer Hiring Prozess da aus?",{"text":39665,"start":29191,"end":29232},"Also ihr macht offensichtlich 'n Erstgespräch, mal so zu gucken, okay, passt der hier zu uns, ja?",{"text":39667,"start":29234,"end":29251},"Macht ihr Einstellungstests, macht ihr Probearbeiten?",{"text":39669,"start":29255,"end":29269},"Wie prüft ihr das Fachliche ab?",{"sentences":39671,"speaker":593,"num_words":38269,"start":29271,"end":29398},[39672,39674],{"text":39673,"start":29271,"end":29319},"Also wir machen den Erstcall, also je nachdem, ne, über welche Plattform, über welches System letztlich jetzt die Bewerbungen reinkommen.",{"text":39675,"start":29322,"end":29398},"Wir haben da lange Zeit einfach Stellenausschreibung gemacht und da hat man natürlich dann viel, was man vorfiltert, ne, wo man einfach nur Lebensläufe liest und dann ablehnt oder weitergeht.",{"sentences":39677,"speaker":149,"num_words":38859,"start":29401,"end":29411},[39678],{"text":39679,"start":29401,"end":29411},"Und das machst Du alles?",{"sentences":39681,"speaker":593,"num_words":39348,"start":29414,"end":29661},[39682,39684,39686,39687,39689],{"text":39683,"start":29414,"end":29462},"Nee, da hatten wir dann tatsächlich auch Mitarbeiter, die dann im people culture mäßig die die Eingänge vorher gesichtet haben.",{"text":39685,"start":29464,"end":29568},"Und jetzt mittlerweile machen wir's aber so, dass wir das wesentlich zielgerichteter machen, beispielsweise über ein Staffo, ne, wo wir dann auch aktiv Leute anschreiben können und das vom Kreis der Bewerber schon sehr viel interessanter ist als quasi in den Wald geschossen.",{"text":4255,"start":29571,"end":29572},{"text":39688,"start":29572,"end":29600},"Und dann machen wir das Erstgespräch, das mach ich zusammen mit meinem Teamlead.",{"text":39690,"start":29604,"end":29661},"Und wenn das passt, also da klopfen wir son paar fachliche Themen ab, dann auch schon mal das erste Gefühl auf der menschlichen Ebene.",{"sentences":39692,"speaker":593,"num_words":1255,"start":29664,"end":29943},[39693,39695,39697],{"text":39694,"start":29664,"end":29777},"Und wenn das passt, dann letztlich schon mit dem mit dem Team, mit dem der oder diejenige dann zukünftig arbeiten könnte, ne, dass wir die direkt reinholen, was uns an der Stelle wichtig ist, dass das Team mit der Person konform ist, weil die halt ja täglich zusammenarbeiten müssen, ne.",{"text":39696,"start":29777,"end":29901},"Und wenn das passt, dann machen wir 'n Termin bei uns in Würzburg vor Ort, wo dann auch mal der die Bewerber Bewerberin zu den anderen Leuten reingeschmissen wird, wenn man mit Marketing spricht, man mit Support spricht, mit unseren Key Account dort spricht, einfach zu gucken, ob das passt.",{"text":39698,"start":29901,"end":29943},"Und wenn dann quasi 3 grüne Häkchen da sind, dann können wir dann in die Einstellung gehen.",{"sentences":39700,"speaker":149,"num_words":37943,"start":29945,"end":29996},[39701],{"text":39702,"start":29945,"end":29996},"Okay, da ist jetzt aber tatsächlich kein kein inhaltlicher Check dabei im Sinne von Probearbeiten, Testaufgabe, irgendwas machen.",{"sentences":39704,"speaker":593,"num_words":39268,"start":29996,"end":30100},[39705,39706,39707,39708,39709],{"text":5901,"start":29996,"end":29998},{"text":30004,"start":30002,"end":30003},{"text":30004,"start":30003,"end":30006},{"text":4255,"start":30006,"end":30009},{"text":39710,"start":30009,"end":30100},"Da haben wir uns aktiv dagegen entschieden, weil wir gesagt haben, klar, jetzt kann man da irgendwie 'nem Entwickler eine Dreiviertelstunde wie Schulter gucken, wie er die zehnte To do Listen App baut.",{"sentences":39712,"speaker":593,"num_words":39723,"start":30103,"end":30357},[39713,39715,39717,39719,39721],{"text":39714,"start":30103,"end":30139},"Und das ist aber unserer Meinung nach einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß, jetzt auch mit KI.",{"text":39716,"start":30139,"end":30152},"Sind ja so rudimentäre Sachen.",{"text":39718,"start":30154,"end":30219},"Also man weiß ja auch nicht, sitzt derjenige jetzt quasi an seinem Rechner und hat nebendran irgendwie 'n KI Agent mitlaufen und der schreibt es einfach nur ab?",{"text":39720,"start":30222,"end":30313},"Oder ja, es ist halt so oberflächlich, so superoberflächlich, dass zu sagen, die Probezeit ist eigentlich das richtige Mittel, zu sagen, der hat Zeit, ins System zu kommen, der hat Zeit, sich im Team zu bewerben.",{"text":39722,"start":30313,"end":30357},"Und wenn das halt nicht passt, muss man halt so ehrlich sein und sagen, okay, es geht halt nicht.",103,{"sentences":39725,"speaker":149,"num_words":37717,"start":30359,"end":30383},[39726],{"text":39727,"start":30359,"end":30383},"Ihr macht für eure Entwickler Probeaufgaben, Gehalt, gell?",{"sentences":39729,"speaker":128,"num_words":39443,"start":30387,"end":30517},[39730,39732,39734,39736,39738],{"text":39731,"start":30387,"end":30401},"Wir machen so Probeaufgaben vor Ort.",{"text":39733,"start":30401,"end":30426},"Das und dann kriegen sie halt 'n Rechner von uns.",{"text":39735,"start":30426,"end":30462},"Das heißt, da kann man son bisschen voraussehen, dass sie das jetzt nicht nutzen, KI.",{"text":39737,"start":30462,"end":30488},"Und das sind dann aber auch keine keine To do Liste.",{"text":39739,"start":30488,"end":30517},"Ist eher so, schreibt man eine Funktion, die das uns macht.",{"sentences":39741,"speaker":128,"num_words":37853,"start":30519,"end":30541},[39742,39743,39745],{"text":38086,"start":30519,"end":30524},{"text":39744,"start":30524,"end":30537},"Also im kleinen Rahmen.",{"text":4255,"start":30540,"end":30541},{"sentences":39747,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":30543,"end":30547},[39748],{"text":39749,"start":30543,"end":30547},"Und Du",{"sentences":39751,"speaker":128,"num_words":38929,"start":30547,"end":30619},[39752,39754],{"text":39753,"start":30547,"end":30604},"hast Du hast ja, also Du hast von wir gesprochen, als Du gesagt hast, wir haben uns dafür entscheiden, dass ihr so Aufgaben nicht macht.",{"text":39755,"start":30604,"end":30619},"Wer also wer ist dieses wir?",{"sentences":39757,"speaker":149,"num_words":37825,"start":30622,"end":30648},[39758,39760],{"text":39759,"start":30622,"end":30639},"Wer bist Du und wenn ja, wie viel?",{"text":39761,"start":30639,"end":30648},"Das sind nicht",{"sentences":39763,"speaker":593,"num_words":39774,"start":30648,"end":30766},[39764,39766,39768,39770,39772],{"text":39765,"start":30648,"end":30661},"nur meine andere Persönlichkeiten.",{"text":39767,"start":30664,"end":30700},"Nee, also das tatsächlich im Gründerkreis haben wir gesagt, wir machen ja diese diese Tests nicht.",{"text":39769,"start":30703,"end":30745},"Und dann letztlich auch mit meinem Team zusammen, wo wir halt einfach viel zusammen strukturieren, was da so was angeht.",{"text":39771,"start":30747,"end":30759},"Weil das ist einfach nicht Okay.",{"text":39773,"start":30761,"end":30766},"Nicht zielführend.",48,{"sentences":39776,"speaker":128,"num_words":37717,"start":30769,"end":30787},[39777],{"text":39778,"start":30769,"end":30787},"Und Du hast, es gibt einen Teamlead, der",{"sentences":39780,"speaker":593,"num_words":37758,"start":30789,"end":30811},[39781],{"text":39782,"start":30789,"end":30811},"Ja, aber mein Teamlead Development quasi, ne, der dann quasi",{"sentences":39784,"speaker":128,"num_words":593,"start":30813,"end":30817},[39785],{"text":38645,"start":30813,"end":30817},{"sentences":39787,"speaker":593,"num_words":37744,"start":30819,"end":30870},[39788,39790],{"text":39789,"start":30819,"end":30867},"'n Stück weit von mir die die Arbeit abnimmt, sich da das Team zu kümmern, alles, was da halt mit dazugehört.",{"text":26092,"start":30869,"end":30870},{"sentences":39792,"speaker":128,"num_words":39395,"start":30872,"end":31023},[39793,39795,39797],{"text":39794,"start":30872,"end":30950},"Okay, das das heißt, diese Prozesse, also das find ich halt interessant, wie kommt man von einem, okay, ich hab das, ich hab noch nie eine Person eingestellt zu so Prozessen, die so funktionieren?",{"text":39796,"start":30950,"end":31008},"Also es war wahrscheinlich alles, lern über Doing, iterativ und hast dich viel abgesprochen mit Seit wann hast Du dein Teamleat?",{"text":39798,"start":31008,"end":31023},"Wie lange arbeitest Du mit dem zusammen?",{"sentences":39800,"speaker":149,"num_words":37712,"start":31026,"end":31033},[39801],{"text":39802,"start":31026,"end":31033},"Also ich hab",{"sentences":39804,"speaker":593,"num_words":392,"start":31033,"end":31111},[39805,39807,39809],{"text":39806,"start":31033,"end":31051},"jetzt fünfjähriges Jubiläum gehabt jetzt am Wochenende.",{"text":39808,"start":31054,"end":31095},"Und als Teamlead, das muss ich überlegen, jetzt sag ich nichts Falsches sagen, weil's bestimmt anhört dann irgendwann.",{"text":39810,"start":31098,"end":31111},"Also so 2, zweieinhalb Jahre.",{"sentences":39812,"speaker":149,"num_words":39198,"start":31111,"end":31143},[39813,39815],{"text":39814,"start":31111,"end":31130},"Weiß ja nicht, wann wir das veröffentlichen.",{"text":39816,"start":31130,"end":31143},"Das kann ja auch dauern.",{"sentences":39818,"speaker":593,"num_words":38601,"start":31143,"end":31347},[39819,39821,39823,39825,39827],{"text":39820,"start":31143,"end":31151},"Na, okay.",{"text":39822,"start":31153,"end":31180},"Nee, aber also wie man da hinkommt, ist tatsächlich iterativ, ne.",{"text":39824,"start":31180,"end":31255},"Also es ist ja dann letztlich wie irgendwie eine Softwareentwicklung, muss man sagt, man bringt das Feature relativ zügig raus und dann hinterfragt man das ständig, ne und schraubt daran rum.",{"text":39826,"start":31255,"end":31327},"Und das machen wir eigentlich gesamtheitlich in Fahrern, dass wir nie Sachen für Gesetze achten und die so stehen lassen, sondern immer sagen, okay, wie können wir's eigentlich besser machen?",{"text":39828,"start":31327,"end":31347},"Zielführend für die Firma, aber auch für die Mitarbeiter.",{"sentences":39830,"speaker":128,"num_words":37751,"start":31349,"end":31424},[39831,39833,39835],{"text":39832,"start":31349,"end":31369},"Wie bringt dir da Ideen von Mitarbeitern ein?",{"text":39834,"start":31369,"end":31407},"Also wenn jetzt 'n Entwickler kommt und sagt, hey, ich find den Bewerbungsprozess doof.",{"text":39836,"start":31411,"end":31424},"Macht der das informell, oder?",{"sentences":39838,"speaker":593,"num_words":39120,"start":31426,"end":31540},[39839,39841,39843,39845,39847],{"text":39840,"start":31426,"end":31476},"Ja, also da ist viel einfach direktes Reden, einfach mal jemand kotzt sich aus, sagt, irgendwas passt grade nicht und dann Okay.",{"text":39842,"start":31478,"end":31489},"Muss man sich natürlich angucken.",{"text":39844,"start":31492,"end":31513},"Ist ja nicht immer, weil's ein Netz ankotzt Ja.",{"text":39846,"start":31515,"end":31524},"Kotzt das alle an.",{"text":39848,"start":31527,"end":31540},"Aber wir machen das eigentlich sehr direkt.",{"sentences":39850,"speaker":149,"num_words":39120,"start":31543,"end":31661},[39851,39852,39854,39856],{"text":4881,"start":31543,"end":31544},{"text":39853,"start":31548,"end":31581},"Speaking of Ideen einbringen, wie macht ihr bei Fahren so eure strategische Planung?",{"text":39855,"start":31584,"end":31647},"Setzt ihr euch da im Gründerteam einmal im Jahr zusammen und schreibt den Fünfjahresplan und dann geht ihr einmal damit zurück in die Firma und gut ist?",{"text":39857,"start":31647,"end":31661},"Oder wie sieht der Prozess aus?",{"sentences":39859,"speaker":593,"num_words":37879,"start":31663,"end":31827},[39860,39862,39864,39866,39868],{"text":39861,"start":31663,"end":31683},"Also ja, letztlich setzen wir uns im Gründerkreis zusammen.",{"text":39863,"start":31687,"end":31737},"Ist jetzt kein Fünfjahresplan, ne, aber wir nehmen natürlich die Punkte aus dem Team mit, schauen, was ist da halt wichtig.",{"text":39865,"start":31741,"end":31757},"Natürlich auch mit Blick auf unsere Zahlen.",{"text":39867,"start":31757,"end":31783},"Und dann schauen wir einfach, wo wir den Schwerpunkt legen, ne.",{"text":39869,"start":31783,"end":31827},"Und dann sagen wir, okay, wir wollen eigentlich diese Umsatzzahlen, diese Abozahlen erreichen, weil's einfach wichtig ist.",{"sentences":39871,"speaker":593,"num_words":39443,"start":31827,"end":31961},[39872,39874,39876],{"text":39873,"start":31827,"end":31854},"Auf der Kostenseite wollen wir eine bestimmte Zahl nicht überschreiten.",{"text":39875,"start":31857,"end":31935},"Und wenn wir dann diese groben Metriken haben, sag ich mal, auf der obersten Ebene, dann gehen wir aber tatsächlich hin mit dem Team und schauen, wie wir das dann im Detail erreichen.",{"text":39877,"start":31935,"end":31961},"Also das gehen wir jetzt nicht im Klein Klein vor.",{"sentences":39879,"speaker":149,"num_words":37727,"start":31961,"end":32012},[39880,39882],{"text":39881,"start":31961,"end":31976},"Und wie oft macht ihr das?",{"text":39883,"start":31976,"end":32012},"Und habt ihr da 'n etablierten Prozess für oder ist das mehr son informelles Ding?",{"sentences":39885,"speaker":593,"num_words":38423,"start":32015,"end":32204},[39886,39888,39890,39892],{"text":39887,"start":32015,"end":32059},"Nee, das ist mittlerweile eigentlich schon recht Also offiziell wär's vielleicht das Falschsport, das ist sone Mischung.",{"text":39889,"start":32061,"end":32114},"Wir machen das einmal im Groben und dann schauen wir aber regelmäßig drauf, in welche Richtung das geht, ne, damit wir auch nachjustieren können.",{"text":39891,"start":32116,"end":32183},"Weil einfach das dann genial laufen zu lassen und am Ende des Jahres zu gucken, ist das jetzt so gekommen, wie's kommen sollte, ist es meistens nicht.",{"text":39893,"start":32185,"end":32204},"Deswegen muss man halt einfach rechtzeitig gegensteuern können.",{"sentences":39895,"speaker":128,"num_words":38064,"start":32206,"end":32266},[39896,39898],{"text":39897,"start":32206,"end":32236},"Und empfindest Du's meistens als was Positives oder auch manchmal hinderlich?",{"text":39899,"start":32236,"end":32266},"Das Ihr seid ja 3 oder 4 Kunde, ich weiß grad nicht.",{"sentences":39901,"speaker":593,"num_words":38017,"start":32268,"end":32312},[39902,39904,39906],{"text":39903,"start":32268,"end":32287},"Also sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive, ne.",{"text":39905,"start":32287,"end":32308},"Waren mal 5, aber sind jetzt noch 4 Aktive.",{"text":220,"start":32311,"end":32312},{"sentences":39908,"speaker":128,"num_words":38269,"start":32315,"end":32440},[39909,39911,39913],{"text":39910,"start":32315,"end":32387},"findest Du's, genau, eigentlich die Frage, wie Ich muss kurz überlegen, wie ich die Frage von mir Also findest Du's gut oder manchmal auch hinterlich, dass ihr 4 Mitgründer seid?",{"text":39912,"start":32387,"end":32422},"Weil es ist ja manchmal auch schwer, alle in in Einklang zu bringen oder?",{"text":39914,"start":32422,"end":32440},"Alle von derselben Idee zu überzeugen.",{"sentences":39916,"speaker":593,"num_words":38137,"start":32443,"end":32639},[39917,39919,39921,39923],{"text":39918,"start":32443,"end":32486},"Also ich find's gut tatsächlich, weil dadurch, dass wir dadurch haben wir halt sehr unterschiedliche Sichtweisen, ne.",{"text":39920,"start":32486,"end":32511},"Jeder hat so sein sein Steckenpferd und seine Prioritäten.",{"text":39922,"start":32514,"end":32565},"Und das verhindert halt, dass mal 1 blind mehr oder weniger, ne, in eine Richtung läuft und aber nicht alle Aspekte betrachtet.",{"text":39924,"start":32565,"end":32639},"Und dadurch, dass wir halt auch so divers aufgestellt sind, können wir halt alle Aspekte aus allen Bereichen der Firma gut einbringen und haben die halt auch relativ gleichgewichtet dann in den Gesprächen,",{"sentences":39926,"speaker":128,"num_words":38929,"start":32642,"end":32711},[39927,39928],{"text":1851,"start":32642,"end":32643},{"text":39929,"start":32643,"end":32711},"Ja, und dadurch kommt wahrscheinlich auch selten zustande, dass 1 sagt, also dass man so komplett konträre Meinung hat, weil jeder sein Fachgebiet hat und dann kommt das so zusammen.",{"sentences":39931,"speaker":593,"num_words":38182,"start":32713,"end":32842},[39932,39933,39935,39937],{"text":2093,"start":32713,"end":32714},{"text":39934,"start":32714,"end":32795},"Und was und das halt verhindert, ist halt beispielsweise, dass jetzt rein, ich sag mal, BWL getrieben, jemand sagt, okay, wir müssen jetzt 'n großes neues Feature machen oder wir gehen jetzt einfach in 'n neues Land.",{"text":39936,"start":32795,"end":32822},"Und das ist aber technisch unmöglich zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt, ne.",{"text":39938,"start":32822,"end":32842},"Und das haben wir so halt nicht, solche Situationen.",{"sentences":39940,"speaker":128,"num_words":37817,"start":32845,"end":32877},[39941,39943],{"text":39942,"start":32845,"end":32850},"Gar nicht.",{"text":39944,"start":32850,"end":32877},"Also wahrscheinlich schon, aber ihr könnt sie relativ gut lösen dann wahrscheinlich, oder?",{"sentences":39946,"speaker":593,"num_words":38126,"start":32877,"end":32980},[39947,39948,39950,39951,39953],{"text":4255,"start":32877,"end":32879},{"text":39949,"start":32879,"end":32906},"Also ich mein, wir sind tatsächlich auch mal in 'n anderes Land gegangen.",{"text":2453,"start":32910,"end":32911},{"text":39952,"start":32911,"end":32947},"Und haben das dann auch wieder sein lassen, aber gemerkt haben, es funktioniert nicht, ne.",{"text":39954,"start":32949,"end":32980},"Aber es fällt wahrscheinlich aber früher auf, als wenn man das jetzt so nicht macht,",{"sentences":39956,"speaker":128,"num_words":37722,"start":32982,"end":32991},[39957],{"text":39958,"start":32982,"end":32991},"Ja, okay, das ist",{"sentences":39960,"speaker":149,"num_words":38144,"start":32995,"end":33101},[39961,39962,39964],{"text":32998,"start":32995,"end":32996},{"text":39963,"start":32996,"end":33084},"Mir hat mal jemand gesagt, als CTO ist das so deine Aufgabe, dich eigentlich überflüssig zu machen und mit der Zeit, die dabei frei wird, dir ständig neue Aufgaben zu suchen, dass Du nicht überflüssig wirst.",{"text":39965,"start":33088,"end":33101},"Würdest würdest Du das unterschreiben?",{"sentences":39967,"speaker":593,"num_words":38819,"start":33104,"end":33263},[39968,39970,39972],{"text":39969,"start":33104,"end":33116},"'N Stück weit, ja, ja.",{"text":39971,"start":33116,"end":33224},"Also ich hab's ja vorhin schon mal gesagt, ne, das das Tolle ist, dadurch, dass man in der Rolle dann wächst und irgendwann dann auch mehr Leute hat, auf die man, die einen ja mittragen, kann man sich halt neue Themen kümmern, ne, wie jetzt das KI Thema.",{"text":39973,"start":33224,"end":33263},"Und das das macht schon Spaß an der Stelle, also ja 'n Stück weit kann man dem zustimmen.",{"sentences":39975,"speaker":149,"num_words":37853,"start":33266,"end":33283},[39976],{"text":39977,"start":33266,"end":33283},"In welchem Teil würdest Du nicht zustimmen?",{"sentences":39979,"speaker":593,"num_words":38819,"start":33286,"end":33454},[39980,39982,39984,39986],{"text":39981,"start":33286,"end":33310},"Ja, sich gänzlich obsolet machen, würd ich jetzt nicht sagen.",{"text":39983,"start":33313,"end":33344},"Denk, das ist auch schwierig, weil dann schnell Sachen ausm Ruder laufen, ne.",{"text":39985,"start":33344,"end":33367},"Also wenn man sich nicht mehr gewisse Themen kümmert, ne.",{"text":39987,"start":33367,"end":33454},"Weil irgendwo muss man ja dann doch auf alles drauf schauen und wenn das nicht passiert, dann hast man halt irgendwo kleine Teams, kleine Grüppchen, die dann immer nur für sich denken und das dann nicht gesamtheilig betrachten.",{"sentences":39989,"speaker":128,"num_words":38929,"start":33457,"end":33529},[39990,39991],{"text":4255,"start":33457,"end":33458},{"text":39992,"start":33458,"end":33529},"Obwohl Du ja wahrscheinlich schon Aufgaben abgegeben hast an den Teamlead oder so, die Du jetzt nicht mehr machst, die Du wahrscheinlich eine Zeit lang mal selber gemacht hast, oder?",{"sentences":39994,"speaker":593,"num_words":38488,"start":33529,"end":33724},[39995,39997,39999,40001,40003],{"text":39996,"start":33529,"end":33535},"Ja, absolut.",{"text":39998,"start":33535,"end":33643},"Also das ist jetzt sowohl, ich sag mal, auch von der Produktseite ausgesprochen, dass man sich da halt darum kümmert, was machen wir jetzt für Neuerungen, ne, den Endkunden besser durch 'n Checker zu bringen oder dem Partner das Leben leichter zu machen.",{"text":40000,"start":33643,"end":33666},"Das muss man sich dann halt nicht mehr selbst alles ausdenken.",{"text":40002,"start":33669,"end":33703},"Aber halt auch in den technischen Konzepte, wie gestaltet man die Infrastruktur, ne?",{"text":40004,"start":33703,"end":33724},"Dafür hat man einfach Leute, die es können, ja.",{"sentences":40006,"speaker":593,"num_words":37744,"start":33724,"end":33773},[40007],{"text":40008,"start":33724,"end":33773},"Ich mein, ich bin ja auch Quereinsteiger, ich hab das ja nicht gelernt und Fahren ist eigentlich mein erstes großes Projekt gewesen.",{"sentences":40010,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":33776,"end":33777},[40011],{"text":2453,"start":33776,"end":33777},{"sentences":40013,"speaker":593,"num_words":37817,"start":33780,"end":33812},[40014,40015],{"text":2453,"start":33780,"end":33781},{"text":40016,"start":33781,"end":33812},"Und von daher muss man, musst ich einfach immer auf andere Leute Expertise aufbauen.",{"sentences":40018,"speaker":128,"num_words":38226,"start":33815,"end":33848},[40019],{"text":40020,"start":33815,"end":33848},"Aber ich hatt auf LinkedIn, hattest Du nicht auch mal eine App Agentur gegründet?",{"sentences":40022,"speaker":593,"num_words":37853,"start":33851,"end":33871},[40023,40024,40026],{"text":4255,"start":33851,"end":33852},{"text":40025,"start":33852,"end":33860},"Ist falsch gewesen?",{"text":40027,"start":33864,"end":33871},"Jetzt kommt jetzt",{"sentences":40029,"speaker":149,"num_words":593,"start":33871,"end":33877},[40030],{"text":40031,"start":33871,"end":33877},"kommt's raus.",{"sentences":40033,"speaker":593,"num_words":38044,"start":33880,"end":34016},[40034,40036,40038,40040],{"text":40035,"start":33880,"end":33899},"Das waren halt so Superpress Seiten, ne.",{"text":40037,"start":33899,"end":33985},"Also das ist jetzt nicht, wo ich sag, da hab ich jetzt ultimativ Wissen auf der Infrastrukturseite aufgebaut oder so, Skalierungsthemen bearbeitet, sondern das war wirklich, da hab ich jemand 'n Shop, okay.",{"text":40039,"start":33989,"end":34011},"Setz ich ja auf und konfiguriert er den.",{"text":34018,"start":34015,"end":34016},{"sentences":40042,"speaker":149,"num_words":38280,"start":34020,"end":34099},[40043,40044,40045,40047,40049],{"text":4255,"start":34020,"end":34021},{"text":4881,"start":34025,"end":34026},{"text":40046,"start":34026,"end":34048},"Wir haben ziemlich viele Themenbereiche hier schon angerissen.",{"text":40048,"start":34051,"end":34085},"Meine Lieblingsfrage daher zum Schluss, wenn Gerald nicht noch eine Frage hat.",{"text":40050,"start":34085,"end":34099},"Gerald, hast Du noch eine Frage?",{"sentences":40052,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":34099,"end":34115},[40053],{"text":40054,"start":34099,"end":34115},"Schade nicht, vielleicht kommt noch eine.",{"sentences":40056,"speaker":149,"num_words":38897,"start":34115,"end":34227},[40057,40058,40060,40062],{"text":34122,"start":34115,"end":34120},{"text":40059,"start":34124,"end":34134},"Dann meine Frage an Fabian.",{"text":40061,"start":34137,"end":34151},"Welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt?",{"text":40063,"start":34155,"end":34227},"Womit hast Du fest gerechnet und gedacht, oh, da wollt ich unbedingt drüber reden und keiner hat mich danach gefragt und jetzt hatt ich gar keine Chance, über XYZ zu sprechen?",{"sentences":40065,"speaker":593,"num_words":39029,"start":34230,"end":34365},[40066,40068,40070,40072,40074],{"text":40067,"start":34230,"end":34235},"Gute Frage.",{"text":40069,"start":34237,"end":34252},"Ich glaub, da war jetzt nichts dabei.",{"text":40071,"start":34254,"end":34321},"Bin son bisschen drauf eingestellt, ne, sondern mein meine meinen Lebenslauf darzulegen, mich nackig zu machen, aber es ist auch okay, wenn wir das nicht tun.",{"text":40073,"start":34321,"end":34362},"Nee, und so inhaltlich fachlich jetzt zu fahren, nee, ich denk, wir haben alles grob angerissen.",{"text":4255,"start":34364,"end":34365},{"sentences":40076,"speaker":149,"num_words":38103,"start":34367,"end":34391},[40077,40078],{"text":34122,"start":34367,"end":34368},{"text":40079,"start":34372,"end":34391},"Garalt, ist dir noch eine letzte Frage eingefallen?",{"sentences":40081,"speaker":128,"num_words":38017,"start":34394,"end":34437},[40082],{"text":40083,"start":34394,"end":34437},"Ja, es hab also ich hab mich grad gefallen, ob wir dich noch nackig machen wollen, aber",{"sentences":40085,"speaker":149,"num_words":37817,"start":34439,"end":34478},[40086,40088,40090],{"text":40087,"start":34439,"end":34458},"Das ist ja ist ja kein Videopodcast hier.",{"text":40089,"start":34461,"end":34475},"Von daher, alles alles kein Problem.",{"text":34122,"start":34477,"end":34478},{"sentences":40092,"speaker":128,"num_words":38449,"start":34478,"end":34533},[40093],{"text":40094,"start":34478,"end":34533},"Aber was, okay, aber wenn Du das schon so sagst, was was wär denn die Frage aus deinem Lebenslauf gewesen, die dich interessiert hätte?",{"sentences":40096,"speaker":149,"num_words":37817,"start":34533,"end":34573},[40097,40099],{"text":40098,"start":34533,"end":34571},"Also Ja, Du musst jetzt sone harte Imposter Syndrom Frage stellen oder so was.",{"text":34574,"start":34571,"end":34573},{"sentences":40101,"speaker":128,"num_words":37765,"start":34576,"end":34620},[40102],{"text":40103,"start":34576,"end":34620},"Ja, das ist schwierig, weil ich versuch's dir auch grad besser zu familieren, ohne dass sie zu hart ist.",{"sentences":40105,"speaker":593,"num_words":40116,"start":34622,"end":34887},[40106,40108,40110,40112,40114],{"text":40107,"start":34622,"end":34772},"Nee, also ich mein, vielleicht die Herausforderung, die ich jetzt ja auch hatte, wie gesagt, ich bin ja Quereinsteiger, ne, Fahren war jetzt so das das erste große Projekt, was vielleicht viele andere in in meiner Situation entweder halt schon auf langjährige Berufserfahrung einfach als Softwareentwickler zurückgreifen können oder halt irgendwie anderweitig schon, keine Ahnung, mal 'n Unternehmen mit aufgebaut haben oder nicht, ne.",{"text":40109,"start":34772,"end":34797},"Und das das hatte ich jetzt nicht, auch ja meine Mitgründer nicht.",{"text":40111,"start":34797,"end":34817},"Also wir mussten das ja immer alles irgendwie lernen.",{"text":40113,"start":34817,"end":34856},"Und da war halt einfach, ich hab's davon schon mal gesagt, ne, dann einfach Expertise von außen zulassen.",{"text":40115,"start":34859,"end":34887},"Ne, das war etwas, was ich gemerkt hab, was mir sehr geholfen hat.",116,{"sentences":40118,"speaker":593,"num_words":37727,"start":34890,"end":34946},[40119],{"text":40120,"start":34890,"end":34946},"Sei es jetzt durch, weiß nicht, Business Angels oder gute Bekannte, die man dann eingebunden hat, die da Hilfestellung geleistet haben.",{"sentences":40122,"speaker":128,"num_words":38017,"start":34948,"end":34988},[40123],{"text":40124,"start":34948,"end":34988},"Hattest Du auch Business Angels, die dir bei der technischen Seite geholfen haben und Tipps gegeben haben?",{"sentences":40126,"speaker":593,"num_words":40136,"start":34988,"end":35131},[40127,40129,40131,40133,40135],{"text":40128,"start":34988,"end":34995},"Ja, cool, ja.",{"text":40130,"start":34997,"end":35041},"Und ja, was ich auch so gemerkt hab, stellenweise hab ich versuch's alles sehr teamdörfern zu machen.",{"text":40132,"start":35043,"end":35093},"Und an der einen oder anderen Stelle muss man dann aber auch eine Entscheidung treffen und die dann halt auch durchziehen, ne.",{"text":40134,"start":35093,"end":35128},"Also beispielsweise, weißt Du, rückblickend das mit Go würd ich jetzt nicht noch mal machen.",{"text":4255,"start":35130,"end":35131},58,{"sentences":40138,"speaker":593,"num_words":38916,"start":35131,"end":35262},[40139,40141,40143,40145],{"text":40140,"start":35131,"end":35157},"Ne, das war rückblickend dann schon 'n Schritt in die falsche Richtung.",{"text":40142,"start":35159,"end":35178},"Aber es ist trotzdem wichtig, das Team mitzunehmen, ne.",{"text":40144,"start":35178,"end":35230},"Also das, ich will nicht mehr sagen, dass man die quasi dann außen vorlässt und alles dann 'nem stillen Kämmerchen ausmacht.",{"text":40146,"start":35234,"end":35262},"Aber so diesen Mittelweg zu finden, das ist manchmal gar nicht so einfach.",{"sentences":40148,"speaker":149,"num_words":37836,"start":35262,"end":35439},[40149,40151,40153,40155,40156],{"text":40150,"start":35262,"end":35284},"Und im Nachhinein ist man ja auch immer schlauer.",{"text":40152,"start":35284,"end":35393},"Also man muss sich ja dann auch ehrlich fragen, aber selbst wenn jetzt Go vielleicht nicht die richtige Richtung war, 'n Fehler war's ja eigentlich nur, wenn Du schon relativ früh gewusst hättest, dass es schiefläuft und es trotzdem das Team weitermachen lässt so, ne.",{"text":40154,"start":35393,"end":35432},"Wenn Zeit einfach nix wird, ist ja okay, aber dafür sind ja diese Versuche auch irgendwie da.",{"text":4255,"start":35432,"end":35434},{"text":40157,"start":35434,"end":35439},"Ja, also",{"sentences":40159,"speaker":593,"num_words":39443,"start":35441,"end":35561},[40160,40162],{"text":40161,"start":35441,"end":35547},"Und mein, da hat's auch sehr viel geholfen, dass das Team halt auch denn selbst zu reflektiert ist und war und entsprechend dann auch vom Team auch oftmals Impulse kamen, ne, in Sachen, okay, das läuft in die falsche Richtung, lass doch mal direkt drüber sprechen.",{"text":40163,"start":35547,"end":35561},"Also da bin ich auch echt happy.",{"sentences":40165,"speaker":149,"num_words":37707,"start":35564,"end":35783},[40166,40168,40170,40172,40174],{"text":40167,"start":35564,"end":35628},"Jetzt hast Du eben schon gesagt, Du Du hast das dir so teilweise selber beigebracht, hast teilweise Business Angels gehabt, aber es war insgesamt son son Lernprozess.",{"text":40169,"start":35631,"end":35711},"Würdest Du noch mal gründen, wenn jetzt Fahren in, weiß nicht, 10 Jahren entweder zu ist oder gut verkauft wurde oder so gut läuft, dass es dich nicht mehr braucht oder keine Ahnung was.",{"text":40171,"start":35711,"end":35736},"Und Du sagst, okay, was mach ich jetzt als Nächstes?",{"text":40173,"start":35736,"end":35759},"So, was das Fahren wir als nächstes großes Ding?",{"text":40175,"start":35761,"end":35783},"Würdest Du würdest Du dir den ganzen Spaß noch mal geben?",{"sentences":40177,"speaker":593,"num_words":38488,"start":35786,"end":35971},[40178,40180,40182,40184,40186],{"text":40179,"start":35786,"end":35798},"Es kommt auf die Idee an.",{"text":40181,"start":35800,"end":35897},"Also ich würd wahrscheinlich nicht noch mal in son wirklich tiefes kaltes Wasser springen, wie's halt mit Fahren damals war, wo ja wir ja eigentlich 0 Expertise hatten im Automotivebereich, ne, was so das Handling von Fahrzeugen und so was angeht.",{"text":40183,"start":35899,"end":35908},"Das wahrscheinlich eher nicht mehr.",{"text":40185,"start":35908,"end":35968},"Aber wenn's dann eher im Bereich ist, in dem ich dann entsprechendes Basiswissen schon hab und Grundwissen, dann könnt ich mir das schon vorstellen, ne.",{"text":4255,"start":35970,"end":35971},{"sentences":40188,"speaker":593,"num_words":38410,"start":35971,"end":36079},[40189,40191,40193],{"text":40190,"start":35971,"end":36004},"Also so letztlich muss ich das dann auch mit meiner Familien Einklang bringen, ne.",{"text":40192,"start":36004,"end":36041},"Ich bin da so der der der Opi im Gründerkreis, sag ich mal, ne.",{"text":40194,"start":36043,"end":36079},"Und entsprechend ist das auch, was halt bei mir relativ weit oben hängt von Wieso",{"sentences":40196,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":36079,"end":36095},[40197],{"text":40198,"start":36079,"end":36095},"bist Du der Opi Gründer bist?",{"sentences":40200,"speaker":593,"num_words":37807,"start":36099,"end":36246},[40201,40203],{"text":40202,"start":36099,"end":36168},"Na ja, ich bin ja jetzt 38, ne und dann meine Mitgründer, die waren ja dann quasi alle so ganz kurz nur Arbeitserfahrung und dann an die Uni.",{"text":40204,"start":36171,"end":36246},"Und ich war ja dann letztlich schon 12 Jahre quasi Schulabschluss und dann bis zur Uni sind bei mir 12 Jahre dazwischen, an denen ich halt einfach schon andere Sachen gemacht hab, ne.",{"sentences":40206,"speaker":128,"num_words":38017,"start":36246,"end":36288},[40207,40209],{"text":40208,"start":36246,"end":36276},"Ah, und das ist auch der Lebensläufe, über den Du sprechen wolltest.",{"text":40210,"start":36276,"end":36288},"Was hast 'n da gemacht?",{"sentences":40212,"speaker":593,"num_words":37958,"start":36291,"end":36308},[40213],{"text":40214,"start":36291,"end":36308},"Nein, jetzt verrat ich's nicht ganz.",{"sentences":40216,"speaker":149,"num_words":39036,"start":36308,"end":36384},[40217,40219],{"text":40218,"start":36308,"end":36338},"2 Minuten Frau Schluss fällt mir auch so ein.",{"text":40220,"start":36341,"end":36384},"Da ist so da ist son Zehnjahres Gap in deinem, wie ich das alles erlebt kann.",{"sentences":40222,"speaker":593,"num_words":37744,"start":36384,"end":36436},[40223,40225],{"text":40224,"start":36384,"end":36404},"Ja, ich mein, die steht auch auf LinkedIn, ne.",{"text":40226,"start":36404,"end":36436},"Ich mein, ich war dann halt bei der Bundeswehr und war da Militärpolizist.",{"sentences":40228,"speaker":128,"num_words":38226,"start":36440,"end":36480},[40229,40231,40232,40234],{"text":40230,"start":36440,"end":36449},"Das hab ich übersehen.",{"text":26092,"start":36453,"end":36454},{"text":40233,"start":36456,"end":36473},"Oh man, das volle spannende Teil.",{"text":40235,"start":36473,"end":36480},"Okay, wie das",{"sentences":40237,"speaker":593,"num_words":37691,"start":36482,"end":36565},[40238,40240,40241,40243,40244],{"text":40239,"start":36482,"end":36487},"12 Jahresspanne.",{"text":5901,"start":36491,"end":36492},{"text":40242,"start":36492,"end":36525},"Also mein, letztlich war ich ja immer affin, ne, was so Computer angeht.",{"text":4255,"start":36525,"end":36527},{"text":40245,"start":36527,"end":36565},"Bei mir war's halt eher so die Gamingrichtung und dann war halt Schule zu Ende.",{"sentences":40247,"speaker":593,"num_words":38436,"start":36567,"end":36741},[40248,40250,40252,40254,40255],{"text":40249,"start":36567,"end":36616},"Und da hab ich mir halt gedacht, okay, entweder Software, das hatt ich damals aber komischerweise noch nicht so aufm Schirm.",{"text":40251,"start":36616,"end":36646},"Und dann war ich bei der Bundeswehr, hab mich da freiwillig gemeldet.",{"text":40253,"start":36649,"end":36679},"Dann zügig gemerkt, dass das nicht das ist, was ich mein Leben lang machen möchte.",{"text":2453,"start":36679,"end":36681},{"text":40256,"start":36681,"end":36741},"Und dann halt während der Dienstzeit mich wieder auf meine eigentlichen, auf mein eigentliches Faible berufen und dann mich damit schon mal beschäftigt, ne.",{"sentences":40258,"speaker":593,"num_words":38103,"start":36741,"end":36765},[40259],{"text":40260,"start":36741,"end":36765},"Und dann halt auch eben über das Studium angehangen.",{"sentences":40262,"speaker":149,"num_words":37958,"start":36768,"end":36784},[40263,40265],{"text":40264,"start":36768,"end":36780},"Alle Wege führen nach Rom.",{"text":2093,"start":36783,"end":36784},{"sentences":40267,"speaker":128,"num_words":38103,"start":36784,"end":36808},[40268,40269],{"text":2093,"start":36784,"end":36787},{"text":40270,"start":36790,"end":36808},"Wie lang warst Du bei der Bundeswehr dann?",{"sentences":40272,"speaker":593,"num_words":37744,"start":36812,"end":36860},[40273],{"text":40274,"start":36812,"end":36860},"Also 10 Jahre aktiv und dann 2 Jahre waren ja quasi dann schon diese Übergangsphase, in denen ich dann studiert hab schon.",{"sentences":40276,"speaker":128,"num_words":38103,"start":36862,"end":36880},[40277,40278],{"text":37757,"start":36862,"end":36866},{"text":40279,"start":36866,"end":36880},"Da hast Du in Würzburg studiert, ne?",{"sentences":40281,"speaker":593,"num_words":128,"start":36882,"end":36883},[40282],{"text":2093,"start":36882,"end":36883},{"sentences":40284,"speaker":128,"num_words":37958,"start":36886,"end":36902},[40285],{"text":40286,"start":36886,"end":36902},"Und warum ist kein Gaming geworden?",{"sentences":40288,"speaker":149,"num_words":37712,"start":36906,"end":36914},[40289],{"text":40290,"start":36906,"end":36914},"Fragt der Gamingentwickler.",{"sentences":40292,"speaker":593,"num_words":37825,"start":36917,"end":36944},[40293,40295],{"text":40294,"start":36917,"end":36923},"Ja, gute Frage.",{"text":40296,"start":36923,"end":36944},"Wahrscheinlich weil Web einfach leichter zugänglich war damals.",{"sentences":40298,"speaker":128,"num_words":37758,"start":36947,"end":36974},[40299],{"text":40300,"start":36947,"end":36974},"Na gut, man kann ja auch mit Webtechnologien Spiele bauen.",{"sentences":40302,"speaker":593,"num_words":38859,"start":36977,"end":36988},[40303],{"text":40304,"start":36977,"end":36988},"Vielleicht das nächste Mal dann.",{"sentences":40306,"speaker":149,"num_words":39723,"start":36990,"end":37247},[40307,40309,40311,40312,40314],{"text":40308,"start":36990,"end":37085},"Aber ich glaub, also, Gareth, ne, ich glaub tatsächlich, dass so so Gaming in Deutschland manchmal einfach son schwieriges Standbein hat, weil Du halt nicht so die die paar großen Firmen irgendwie kennst, wo Du dich bewerben solltest.",{"text":40310,"start":37085,"end":37140},"Also es gibt in Deutschland 'n bisschen Nintendo und es gibt irgendwie CryyTech und so, hast Du alles nicht gesehen, die paar großen.",{"text":37146,"start":37140,"end":37144},{"text":40313,"start":37144,"end":37229},"Aber also ohne jetzt hier Lotum zu sehr in die Pfanne hauen zu wollen, aber ich glaub, auch die Allerwenigsten da draußen haben Lotum auf dem Schirm, wenn sie irgendwie Gaming machen wollen.",{"text":40315,"start":37229,"end":37247},"So, das ist halt immer son bisschen, Ja.",{"sentences":40317,"speaker":149,"num_words":38017,"start":37249,"end":37288},[40318,40320],{"text":40319,"start":37249,"end":37258},"Muss man mal nachschauen.",{"text":40321,"start":37258,"end":37288},"Also wenn ihr da draußen Gaming machen wollt, schreibt gar nicht eine E-Mail.",{"sentences":40323,"speaker":128,"num_words":38226,"start":37291,"end":37332},[40324,40326,40327,40328,40330],{"text":40325,"start":37291,"end":37315},"Vor allem, wenn man das mit Wetterschurken macht.",{"text":4255,"start":37318,"end":37319},{"text":34122,"start":37322,"end":37323},{"text":40329,"start":37323,"end":37327},"Ja, spannend.",{"text":40331,"start":37329,"end":37332},"Sehr spannend.",{"sentences":40333,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":37332,"end":37334},[40334],{"text":19780,"start":37332,"end":37334},{"sentences":40336,"speaker":149,"num_words":39198,"start":37336,"end":37369},[40337,40339],{"text":40338,"start":37336,"end":37351},"okay, dann sind wir damit durch.",{"text":40340,"start":37354,"end":37369},"Danke dir, Fabian, für das Gespräch.",{"sentences":40342,"speaker":593,"num_words":37958,"start":37369,"end":37386},[40343],{"text":40344,"start":37369,"end":37386},"Danke, dass ich hier ran durfte.",{"sentences":40346,"speaker":149,"num_words":37812,"start":37389,"end":37425},[40347,40349],{"text":40348,"start":37389,"end":37403},"Danke, Garelt für die Zeit.",{"text":40350,"start":37406,"end":37425},"Remote extra hier noch mal zugeschaltet ins Studio.",{"sentences":40352,"speaker":128,"num_words":37825,"start":37428,"end":37455},[40353,40355],{"text":40354,"start":37428,"end":37439},"Ich wollte unbedingt dabei sein.",{"text":40356,"start":37439,"end":37455},"Ich fand's 'n sehr gutes Gespräch.",{"sentences":40358,"speaker":149,"num_words":38182,"start":37455,"end":37613},[40359,40361,40362,40364,40366],{"text":40360,"start":37455,"end":37463},"Vielen Dank.",{"text":34122,"start":37466,"end":37467},{"text":40363,"start":37469,"end":37490},"Dann hoffen wir, es hat euch da draußen auch gefallen.",{"text":40365,"start":37490,"end":37551},"Wenn ihr Feedback, Rückfragen oder Ähnliches habt, dann am besten in unseren Discord kommen und gerad fragen, wie man Spiele mit Webtechnologien umsetzt.",{"text":40367,"start":37554,"end":37613},"Ansonsten gerne eine E-Mail an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder einfach einen Kommentar auf den gängigen Social Media Kanälen hinterlassen.",{"sentences":40369,"speaker":149,"num_words":38064,"start":37613,"end":37679},[40370,40372,40373,40375,40377],{"text":40371,"start":37613,"end":37639},"Wir lesen das in der Regel, sag ich mal, zeitnah mit.",{"text":34122,"start":37641,"end":37642},{"text":40374,"start":37645,"end":37664},"Anton, tschau tschau, bis zum nächsten Mal.",{"text":40376,"start":37664,"end":37672},"Bis bald.",{"text":40378,"start":37675,"end":37679},"Macht's 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